RE: Love from a slave perspective

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favesclava -> RE: Love from a slave perspective (9/6/2007 11:45:11 AM)
i've only been a slave for 8 months. but i know that in order to care for someone i have take care of myself. as a mother and a very poor one way back when , i have gone without food or suitable clothing from time to time so that my children would not . but i had to eat and wear warm coat so that i wouldnt get sick and be unable to care for them. the same way i must be responsible for my well being so that i can be the very best that Master deserves. i will do as He says unless His order would be against my benefit and would impact my ability to serve. this is expected and a direct order.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Love from a slave perspective (9/6/2007 11:47:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: awmslave I found an article that supports my point: http://www.the-estate.com/items/date/2005/06/28/the-east-wing-perspective-on-training-vs-romance/ It's an interesting article, from what I skimmed, but only seems to address the notion that love equates to romance. I love and adore my Master and he loves me as a valued pet, but we do not share a romantic love by any means. He taught me from the start that he would not have a romantic love with me, but that it is hard to keep from loving a slave who makes such an effort and will go through anything to please him. And boy can I assure you that his feelings for me do not at all interfere negatively with the way he Masters me. If anything, his sentiment toward me makes him an even better Master, because he makes decisions for my overall future and my life that are intended to ensure my well being long after he is gone (he is a bit older than me). In fact, just last night he was saying he has been teaching me to be strong and take care of myself, and in fact to channel him, so that when he passes I can not only survive but continue to flourish. It is the greatest gift anyone has given me in my life time. If he did not feel for me as he does, he likely would not have done that. But his love for me does not in any way interfere with his use of me, his discipline of me, his instruction and training of me, or his punishments for me. While I accept others' claims that love of any kind would not work in their relationships, I will not accept the claim that it won't work in any relationship, particularly mine.

michelleryder -> RE: Love from a slave perspective (9/6/2007 1:58:08 PM)
I was sub not slave when i first came to my master and yes i had ideas about what i would and would'nt do for him. As time past and i grew to love him the submission evolved to slavery to a point where i'll do anything for him now. So for me slavery needs love submission doesn't.

awmslave -> RE: Love from a slave perspective (9/6/2007 5:53:29 PM)
As I understand it the original question was about romantic love (the one that leads to marriage). A wide definition of love applies to any close relationship. Most people love their dogs or cats for example. I served in the past a married woman as her live in slave. She derived a lot of pleasure (+having skilled worker for everything she needed to be done) from control and training . However, there was no special need for romance. There are all kind of variations in BDSM relationships. The point I am trying to make is that purely service oriented slave-master/mistress relationships are possible and long-term viable. Although, it needs to be added, most people actually look for romance in BDSM world. In particular, dominant women who find purely slave-mistress dynamics (without sexual romance) pleasurable are rare.

homedespot -> RE: Love from a slave perspective (9/6/2007 6:56:35 PM)
I absolutely agree that it is possible, and some people feel desirable, to have a non-romantic (in-love) relationship from Mistress to Slave. My actual question is: Is it possible from slave to Mistress. Can you be a slave and not love your Mistress. I know you can be a submissive and not love your Mistress but can you, using the definination provided (which is only one possible definition) be a slave without being IN love with your Mistress. I did find the article you sent very interesting. Not on point for the question per se but very useful and I have bookmarked it so thank you for it. quote: ORIGINAL: awmslave As I understand it the original question was about romantic love (the one that leads to marriage). A wide definition of love applies to any close relationship. Most people love their dogs or cats for example. I served in the past a married woman as her live in slave. She derived a lot of pleasure (+having skilled worker for everything she needed to be done) from control and training . However, there was no special need for romance. There are all kind of variations in BDSM relationships. The point I am trying to make is that purely service oriented slave-master/mistress relationships are possible and long-term viable. Although, it needs to be added, most people actually look for romance in BDSM world. In particular, dominant women who find purely slave-mistress dynamics (without sexual romance) pleasurable are rare.

awmslave -> RE: Love from a slave perspective (9/8/2007 2:17:40 AM)
quote: can you, using the definination provided (which is only one possible definition) be a slave without being IN love with your Mistress. Yes, I can. I do not even have a need to like a Mistress as a person. The only thing I expect is that a mistress has a strong desire for having a slave and she treats me as a slave.

PhDslave -> RE: Love from a slave perspective (9/8/2007 8:44:06 AM)
i would have to love my Mistress for this to work. i would either start out loving Her or wind up loving Her.

shyinini -> RE: Love from a slave perspective (9/8/2007 10:22:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: awmslave I found an article that supports my point: http://www.the-estate.com/items/date/2005/06/28/the-east-wing-perspective-on-training-vs-romance/ *Objectivity and perspective.........* *Love is a feeling...an emotion that gets in the way of duty and honor.......* *God I sound like I havent a warm feeling in the world for my beloved Sir..... I do, God I DO !!* *He understands my need to stay away from an emotion that only sucks the objectivity and perspective out of my life and spirals me into a head long suicide jump.....* *I was considering I Corinthians 13, the love chapter, after first responding to this thread....* (Today's New International Version) 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 8 Love never fails. I am a realist, who definately believes that all Scripture is inspired.... so I dont believe vs 8 altho in my heart of hearts I know it is backed up by I John 4:18 "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love." NASB ©1995 My Sir is the only man (besides my own Dad) who has ever demonstrated vs 4-7 to me and has never given me reason to fear. We also know that the one time I gave my all for what I thought was love, love without fear, is the time my objectivity and my sensibilities betrayed my own objectivity, understanding and lead me to the black hole of suicidal abyss. Love has nothing to do a D/s relationship until all fear is cast aside and the exchange of surrender and control is well in place.......... This article was powrful.... thanks for sharing it. Sir's girl who needs dominance and control without fear

breatheasone -> RE: Love from a slave perspective (9/8/2007 10:37:47 AM)
I am going to say, since it seems you are referring to loving...and being in love as two separate things, that no its not possible. I believe every dom/master that has a sub/slave has some degree of love for them. I know that some doms/masters NEED to be in love with there sub/slaves. I also believe that the same can be said for subs/slaves. I now know for me personally, that my ability to completely surrender to my Master, is because i am in love with Him.

nosferatue -> RE: Love from a slave perspective (9/8/2007 5:10:41 PM)
it's a matter of personage. For me, i could never be slave to a Daddy i didn't love. It just would not be physically possible for me.

adoracat -> RE: Love from a slave perspective (9/8/2007 7:41:03 PM)
i am all about "what works for you". trust, obviously, has to be there in the BDSM relationship (however you wish to define BDSM). for me, and for Sir, love is there. its how we want it. but its never for me to define how others wish their relationship to be. kitten

littlebitxxx -> RE: Love from a slave perspective (9/9/2007 3:04:16 AM)
If your M/s relationship contains love in the normal sense of the word, great. If it doesn't but there is still great respect and trust and affection, great. What works for some doesn't work for others and all should just find their own way. For me, love came first, submission just followed naturally and slavery will go as deeply as we wish it to.

rmanrr -> RE: Love from a slave perspective (9/9/2007 11:43:39 AM)
Greetings Aye My love, truly spoken. We have indeed found our own way, but that is what this whole dynamic should be. To live as others deem proper is to live as automatons, devoid of purpose, of even, gasp, life. The fact that we define what we live every day, even as it grows, and evolves even from hour to hour at times, is what makes our journey something wondrous to live. I love you.

hardbodysub -> RE: Love from a slave perspective (9/9/2007 1:01:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe That's very nice-but can you think outside of the box and see how others might relate differently? quote: ORIGINAL: Celeste43 Without love I can't submit. I certainly couldn't feel the deep need to put someone else's needs first. I'm not sure I can do that as a submissive in a loving relationship. Moreover I'm not sure I should, because if my needs aren't fulfilled then I'm empty and lacking the strength and drive to fulfill someone else's. You know, RRafe, I don't think Celeste said anything to disparage or discount anyone else's feelings or points of view. All she did was tell us how it works for her. Maybe you ought to do the same. Relate to us how it works for you, but then think outside YOUR box, and let the other people say how it works for them. Having different needs, interests, and perspectives doesn't make anyone wrong. Just different.

littleone35 -> RE: Love from a slave perspective (9/10/2007 8:42:42 AM)
Well i don't have a mistress but i have a Master. We not only love and like each other we are IN LOVE with each other. To start liking is a must have and later it has to be love for me to trust him totally with hy life and heart. Without love for me and me only it is an empty relationship. Matt's littleone

RRafe -> RE: Love from a slave perspective (9/10/2007 9:42:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hardbodysub quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe That's very nice-but can you think outside of the box and see how others might relate differently? quote: ORIGINAL: Celeste43 Without love I can't submit. I certainly couldn't feel the deep need to put someone else's needs first. I'm not sure I can do that as a submissive in a loving relationship. Moreover I'm not sure I should, because if my needs aren't fulfilled then I'm empty and lacking the strength and drive to fulfill someone else's. You know, RRafe, I don't think Celeste said anything to disparage or discount anyone else's feelings or points of view. All she did was tell us how it works for her. Maybe you ought to do the same. Relate to us how it works for you, but then think outside YOUR box, and let the other people say how it works for them. Having different needs, interests, and perspectives doesn't make anyone wrong. Just different. I can see it any multitude of ways. My point was to try and to get her to realize that not everyone is the same as her-I have seen a pattern.

AquaticSub -> RE: Love from a slave perspective (9/10/2007 10:08:55 AM)
To be fair the OP asked "Can you submit under these circumstances" not "Can you see how others would be happy under these circumstances", and that is the quetion she answered.

DiurnalVampire -> RE: Love from a slave perspective (9/10/2007 10:14:31 AM)
I will give a quick answer to the OP. Yes, someone can be a slave, with your definition without loving (perhaps beyond friendship) the Mistress or Master they serve. I had a wonderful slave who was a gay male. There was no love or interest in it. His service to me was strictly service. I came first, and he was a good servant. He lived to make me happy, he enjoyed the service arrangements we had, and he was good adt what i wanted from hi. However, there was never even the idea that we would be anything more than Mistress and slave. He had his partners, I had mine. It is not a common arrangement, but it is certainly a possible one. DV

hardbodysub -> RE: Love from a slave perspective (9/10/2007 11:23:47 AM)
OK, Rrafe, I didn't know about any pattern. Sorry. I'm going to start a new thread on this issue (a minor one, admittedly) to avoid hijackiing this topic.

Celeste43 -> RE: Love from a slave perspective (9/10/2007 3:38:49 PM)
The pattern Rrafe has seen is me answering from my point of view. Not from anyone else's. Unfortunately I've noticed a pattern of him finding people who have diametrically opposed viewpoint as being wrong which is not uncommon. I think most of us think that those who believe the same way they do are smarter/nicer/better/pick a positive adjective. But as I've said before, I'm only submissive to one so I don't feel any need to lower eyes or whatever to any other dom out there, and even if I did I'm not allowed to. I'm supposed to be as strong as I can.

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