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RE: Love from a slave perspective - 9/6/2007 11:45:11 AM

favesclava

Posts: 1608
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline

i've only been a slave for 8 months. but i know that in order to care for someone i have take care of myself. as a mother and a very poor one way back when , i have gone without food or suitable clothing from time to time so that my children would not . but i had to eat and wear warm coat so that i wouldnt get sick and be unable to care for them. the same way i must be responsible for my well being so that i can be the very best that Master deserves. i will do as He says unless His order would be against my benefit and would impact my ability to serve. this is expected and a direct order.

(in reply to toservez)

Post #: 21

RE: Love from a slave perspective - 9/6/2007 11:47:37 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

I found an article that supports my point:
http://www.the-estate.com/items/date/2005/06/28/the-east-wing-perspective-on-training-vs-romance/

It's an interesting article, from what I skimmed, but only seems to address the notion that love equates to romance. I love and adore my Master and he loves me as a valued pet, but we do not share a romantic love by any means. He taught me from the start that he would not have a romantic love with me, but that it is hard to keep from loving a slave who makes such an effort and will go through anything to please him. And boy can I assure you that his feelings for me do not at all interfere negatively with the way he Masters me. If anything, his sentiment toward me makes him an even better Master, because he makes decisions for my overall future and my life that are intended to ensure my well being long after he is gone (he is a bit older than me).

In fact, just last night he was saying he has been teaching me to be strong and take care of myself, and in fact to channel him, so that when he passes I can not only survive but continue to flourish. It is the greatest gift anyone has given me in my life time. If he did not feel for me as he does, he likely would not have done that.

But his love for me does not in any way interfere with his use of me, his discipline of me, his instruction and training of me, or his punishments for me. While I accept others' claims that love of any kind would not work in their relationships, I will not accept the claim that it won't work in any relationship, particularly mine.

(in reply to awmslave)

Post #: 22

RE: Love from a slave perspective - 9/6/2007 1:58:08 PM

michelleryder

Posts: 198
Joined: 5/18/2007
Status: offline

I was sub not slave when i first came to my master and yes i had ideas about what i would and would'nt do for him. As time past and i grew to love him the submission evolved to slavery to a point where i'll do anything for him now. So for me slavery needs love submission doesn't.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 23

RE: Love from a slave perspective - 9/6/2007 5:53:29 PM

awmslave

Posts: 599
Joined: 3/31/2006
Status: offline

As I understand it the original question was about romantic love (the one that leads to marriage). A wide definition of love applies to any close relationship. Most people love their dogs or cats for example. I served in the past a married woman as her live in slave. She derived a lot of pleasure (+having skilled worker for everything she needed to be done) from control and training . However, there was no special need for romance. There are all kind of variations in BDSM relationships. The point I am trying to make is that purely service oriented slave-master/mistress relationships are possible and long-term viable. Although, it needs to be added, most people actually look for romance in BDSM world. In particular, dominant women who find purely slave-mistress dynamics (without sexual romance) pleasurable are rare.

(in reply to michelleryder)

Post #: 24

RE: Love from a slave perspective - 9/6/2007 6:56:35 PM

homedespot

Posts: 79
Joined: 5/28/2006
Status: offline

I absolutely agree that it is possible, and some people feel desirable, to have a non-romantic (in-love) relationship from Mistress to Slave. My actual question is:

Is it possible from slave to Mistress. Can you be a slave and not love your Mistress. I know you can be a submissive and not love your Mistress but can you, using the definination provided (which is only one possible definition) be a slave without being IN love with your Mistress.

I did find the article you sent very interesting. Not on point for the question per se but very useful and I have bookmarked it so thank you for it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

As I understand it the original question was about romantic love (the one that leads to marriage). A wide definition of love applies to any close relationship. Most people love their dogs or cats for example. I served in the past a married woman as her live in slave. She derived a lot of pleasure (+having skilled worker for everything she needed to be done) from control and training . However, there was no special need for romance. There are all kind of variations in BDSM relationships. The point I am trying to make is that purely service oriented slave-master/mistress relationships are possible and long-term viable. Although, it needs to be added, most people actually look for romance in BDSM world. In particular, dominant women who find purely slave-mistress dynamics (without sexual romance) pleasurable are rare.

(in reply to awmslave)

Post #: 25

RE: Love from a slave perspective - 9/8/2007 2:17:40 AM

awmslave

Posts: 599
Joined: 3/31/2006
Status: offline

quote:

can you, using the definination provided (which is only one possible definition) be a slave without being IN love with your Mistress.

Yes, I can. I do not even have a need to like a Mistress as a person. The only thing I expect is that a mistress has a strong desire for having a slave and she treats me as a slave.

(in reply to homedespot)

Post #: 26

RE: Love from a slave perspective - 9/8/2007 8:44:06 AM

PhDslave

Posts: 74
Joined: 9/24/2005
Status: offline

i would have to love my Mistress for this to work. i would either start out loving Her or wind up loving Her.

(in reply to awmslave)

Post #: 27

RE: Love from a slave perspective - 9/8/2007 10:22:56 AM

shyinini

Posts: 550
Joined: 5/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

I found an article that supports my point:
http://www.the-estate.com/items/date/2005/06/28/the-east-wing-perspective-on-training-vs-romance/

Objectivity and perspective.........
Love is a feeling...an emotion that gets in the way of duty and honor.......

God I sound like I havent a warm feeling in the world for my beloved Sir..... I do, God I DO !!

He understands my need to stay away from an emotion that only sucks the objectivity and perspective out of my life and spirals me into a head long suicide jump.....

I was considering I Corinthians 13, the love chapter, after first responding to this thread....
(Today's New International Version)
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails.

I am a realist, who definately believes that all Scripture is inspired.... so I dont believe vs 8 altho in my heart of hearts I know it is backed up by I John 4:18 "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love." NASB ©1995

My Sir is the only man (besides my own Dad) who has ever demonstrated vs 4-7 to me and has never given me reason to fear.
We also know that the one time I gave my all for what I thought was love, love without fear, is the time my objectivity and my sensibilities betrayed my own objectivity, understanding and lead me to the black hole of suicidal abyss.

Love has nothing to do a D/s relationship until all fear is cast aside and the exchange of surrender and control is well in place..........

This article was powrful.... thanks for sharing it.

Sir's girl who needs dominance and control without fear

_____________________________

With grace and gratitude, I am owned.
A Man who always seeks to be the best He can be for you
is the only Man truly worthy of being called Sir.

(in reply to awmslave)

Post #: 28

RE: Love from a slave perspective - 9/8/2007 10:37:47 AM

breatheasone

Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

I am going to say, since it seems you are referring to loving...and being in love as two separate things, that no its not possible. I believe every dom/master that has a sub/slave has some degree of love for them. I know that some doms/masters NEED to be in love with there sub/slaves. I also believe that the same can be said for subs/slaves. I now know for me personally, that my ability to completely surrender to my Master, is because i am in love with Him.

_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
candy posts in pink font

(in reply to homedespot)

Post #: 29

RE: Love from a slave perspective - 9/8/2007 5:10:41 PM

nosferatue

Posts: 4
Joined: 3/17/2007
From: Chesterland, Ohio
Status: offline

it's a matter of personage. For me, i could never be slave to a Daddy i didn't love. It just would not be physically possible for me.

(in reply to toservez)

Post #: 30

RE: Love from a slave perspective - 9/8/2007 7:41:03 PM

adoracat

Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline

i am all about "what works for you". trust, obviously, has to be there in the BDSM relationship (however you wish to define BDSM).

for me, and for Sir, love is there. its how we want it. but its never for me to define how others wish their relationship to be.

kitten

(in reply to nosferatue)

Post #: 31

RE: Love from a slave perspective - 9/9/2007 3:04:16 AM

littlebitxxx

Posts: 732
Status: offline

If your M/s relationship contains love in the normal sense of the word, great. If it doesn't but there is still great respect and trust and affection, great. What works for some doesn't work for others and all should just find their own way. For me, love came first, submission just followed naturally and slavery will go as deeply as we wish it to.

_____________________________

There is no such thing as can't unless it is followed by yet

It is the meaningless little acts that become meaningful in the doing.

The people that mind don't matter and the people that matter don't mind.

(in reply to adoracat)

Post #: 32

RE: Love from a slave perspective - 9/9/2007 11:43:39 AM

rmanrr

Posts: 358
Joined: 7/25/2006
Status: offline

Greetings
Aye My love, truly spoken. We have indeed found our own way, but that is what this whole dynamic should be. To live as others deem proper is to live as automatons, devoid of purpose, of even, gasp, life. The fact that we define what we live every day, even as it grows, and evolves even from hour to hour at times, is what makes our journey something wondrous to live. I love you.

_____________________________

Be Well, Be Careful

Jarl Rmanrr

"the road untravelled is the loneliest." Me
Courage...the ability to overcome obstacles during the course.
"to be insane is to be original!"...Me

(in reply to littlebitxxx)

Post #: 33

RE: Love from a slave perspective - 9/9/2007 1:01:43 PM

hardbodysub

Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

That's very nice-but can you think outside of the box and see how others might relate differently?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

Without love I can't submit. I certainly couldn't feel the deep need to put someone else's needs first. I'm not sure I can do that as a submissive in a loving relationship. Moreover I'm not sure I should, because if my needs aren't fulfilled then I'm empty and lacking the strength and drive to fulfill someone else's.

You know, RRafe, I don't think Celeste said anything to disparage or discount anyone else's feelings or points of view. All she did was tell us how it works for her. Maybe you ought to do the same. Relate to us how it works for you, but then think outside YOUR box, and let the other people say how it works for them. Having different needs, interests, and perspectives doesn't make anyone wrong. Just different.

(in reply to RRafe)

Post #: 34

RE: Love from a slave perspective - 9/10/2007 8:42:42 AM

littleone35

Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline

Well i don't have a mistress but i have a Master. We not only love and like each other we are IN LOVE with each other. To start liking is a must have and later it has to be love for me to trust him totally with hy life and heart. Without love for me and me only it is an empty relationship.

Matt's littleone

(in reply to hardbodysub)

Post #: 35

RE: Love from a slave perspective - 9/10/2007 9:42:06 AM

RRafe

Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

That's very nice-but can you think outside of the box and see how others might relate differently?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

Without love I can't submit. I certainly couldn't feel the deep need to put someone else's needs first. I'm not sure I can do that as a submissive in a loving relationship. Moreover I'm not sure I should, because if my needs aren't fulfilled then I'm empty and lacking the strength and drive to fulfill someone else's.

You know, RRafe, I don't think Celeste said anything to disparage or discount anyone else's feelings or points of view. All she did was tell us how it works for her. Maybe you ought to do the same. Relate to us how it works for you, but then think outside YOUR box, and let the other people say how it works for them. Having different needs, interests, and perspectives doesn't make anyone wrong. Just different.

I can see it any multitude of ways. My point was to try and to get her to realize that not everyone is the same as her-I have seen a pattern.

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to hardbodysub)

Post #: 36

RE: Love from a slave perspective - 9/10/2007 10:08:55 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

To be fair the OP asked "Can you submit under these circumstances" not "Can you see how others would be happy under these circumstances", and that is the quetion she answered.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to RRafe)

Post #: 37

RE: Love from a slave perspective - 9/10/2007 10:14:31 AM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

I will give a quick answer to the OP.
Yes, someone can be a slave, with your definition without loving (perhaps beyond friendship) the Mistress or Master they serve. I had a wonderful slave who was a gay male. There was no love or interest in it. His service to me was strictly service. I came first, and he was a good servant. He lived to make me happy, he enjoyed the service arrangements we had, and he was good adt what i wanted from hi. However, there was never even the idea that we would be anything more than Mistress and slave. He had his partners, I had mine.
It is not a common arrangement, but it is certainly a possible one.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to toservez)

Post #: 38

RE: Love from a slave perspective - 9/10/2007 11:23:47 AM

hardbodysub

Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline

OK, Rrafe, I didn't know about any pattern. Sorry. I'm going to start a new thread on this issue (a minor one, admittedly) to avoid hijackiing this topic.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 39

RE: Love from a slave perspective - 9/10/2007 3:38:49 PM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline

The pattern Rrafe has seen is me answering from my point of view. Not from anyone else's. Unfortunately I've noticed a pattern of him finding people who have diametrically opposed viewpoint as being wrong which is not uncommon. I think most of us think that those who believe the same way they do are smarter/nicer/better/pick a positive adjective.

But as I've said before, I'm only submissive to one so I don't feel any need to lower eyes or whatever to any other dom out there, and even if I did I'm not allowed to. I'm supposed to be as strong as I can.

(in reply to hardbodysub)

Post #: 40

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