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How to train him - 9/6/2007 3:23:51 PM   
Tarantuladoll


Posts: 22
Joined: 9/2/2007
Status: offline 		Dear Mistresses, I have discovered that I truly need to care for my partners and for my partners to serve me.  Although it was always obvious that I was the Dominant one in my relationships with females, I was not always sure in the relationships I had with males. In the last few years I have discovered that the need is necessity for me with both sexes, in the bedroom as well as out.   My husband is an undomesticated submissive.  he has described  himself as a switch, but whenever we have talked he has always admitted that he truly doesn’t enjoy being in control, and that he would rather be the one in submission to me.  The truth is he wants to be submissive to me, but he is not completely trained.  he is like a wild stallion and I have enjoyed  (in fact love) the struggle and the fights that he puts up as far as his training and punishments go, but  I feel as though he is disobedient when it come to his servitude to me.  I am not being shown the proper respect outside the bedroom.

My questions: How do I train him to be a respectful servant without taking the fight out of him???????

Thank you,
Tarantuladoll




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RE: How to train him - 9/6/2007 6:31:53 PM   
EternalInferno


Posts: 47
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline 		I think I'm confused.  Mainly I think you may be confusing things a bit.  But that is just me.  You don't teach him to be respectful and fight at the same time.  He has to be willing to submit and you have to warrant that submission.  If you give him what he wants without the respect, you are contributing to the situation.  You love the fight and yet are complaining about the fight.  You might try clearing things up in your own mind, talking with your husband about it and get a take for what he thinks.  Write it out.  Clear expectations are hard to misunderstand.

I have a wonderful cocky submissive, but he is always respectful.  His cockiness comes in the form of playfulness.  BUT, I clearly set the relationship up in the begining by learning him and after finding we had much in common in how we each wanted to live out our lives inside and outside the lifestyle, I guided him in the direction I wanted.  But first he had to want to submit more than in the bedroom (kink) and had to learn what was respectful play to me and what was not acceptable and that was my responsability to spell out for him.

(in reply to Tarantuladoll)
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RE: How to train him - 9/6/2007 7:32:24 PM   
Tarantuladoll


Posts: 22
Joined: 9/2/2007
Status: offline 		What I ment about fight and stuggle is more on the terms of what you are talking about,"playful", but the problem is the not playful.  I want to correct it without taking away from his playfulness.  

(in reply to EternalInferno)
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RE: How to train him - 9/7/2007 1:00:40 AM   
absolutelysub


Posts: 6
Joined: 11/9/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarantuladoll

Dear Mistresses, I have discovered that I truly need to care for my partners and for my partners to serve me.  Although it was always obvious that I was the Dominant one in my relationships with females, I was not always sure in the relationships I had with males. In the last few years I have discovered that the need is necessity for me with both sexes, in the bedroom as well as out.   My husband is an undomesticated submissive.  he has described  himself as a switch, but whenever we have talked he has always admitted that he truly doesn’t enjoy being in control, and that he would rather be the one in submission to me.  The truth is he wants to be submissive to me, but he is not completely trained.  he is like a wild stallion and I have enjoyed  (in fact love) the struggle and the fights that he puts up as far as his training and punishments go, but  I feel as though he is disobedient when it come to his servitude to me.  I am not being shown the proper respect outside the bedroom.

My questions: How do I train him to be a respectful servant without taking the fight out of him???????

Thank you,
Tarantuladoll







Close Your eyes, breathe and let Your deepst wishes come true.
Give him the chance to feel You are pleased. Allow him to feel Your mind is cumming. He will ve shocked by that experience. He will never get enough of that.

(in reply to Tarantuladoll)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: How to train him - 9/7/2007 3:27:00 AM   
MsLilac


Posts: 151
Joined: 5/31/2007
Status: offline
In short, you can’t if it is not there.

My take on what you have said is, (please correct me if I am wrong) he submits in the bedroom (with a playful struggle *kink*). You are both still discovering yourselves. He doesn’t serve outside of the bedroom. This sounds like a relationship based on kink on to me. It may develop into an overall D/s relationship with time, as you seem to both be on your discovery. But going on what you said, he seems more of a kinkster not an ‘all round’ submissive ‘pleaser‘.

Have you both talked and defined what submission means to you both in quantifiable terms? If so, where did his focus lay? And where is yours? Does he focus on play a lot? How long have you both been together?

You can’t ‘make’ anybody submit, if it aint there, it aint there. No amount of playful fighting is going to make him wash the dishes everyday for life.

There are some that like a challenge, I like the ‘cheeky chappy’ type with a twinkle in his eye, BUT knows when to quit it and who is always respectful. But I personally don’t see how you can give clear signals with what you want. You want servile, but defiance? Teaching that outside of the bedroom will give mixed signals and led to bad habits I reckon. Are you just looking for excuses to punish? Giving mixed signals doesn’t inspire the confidence and trust needed for someone to submit.

I mean, you could teach him to tell you ‘f*** off’ every time you want him to do the hoovering, then after a beating he does as told, but isn’t that just playing? As opposed to servile submission?

I’m confused. But I hope my response helps somewhat.

< Message edited by MsLilac -- 9/7/2007 3:58:59 AM >

_____________________________

I’m sorry, I don’t do autographs

(in reply to Tarantuladoll)
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RE: How to train him - 9/7/2007 3:27:47 AM   
arayofsunshine55


Posts: 545
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: San Francisco, CA
Status: offline 		Be really clear about what respect means to you.  About your standards.   See how he thinks and feels about them.  Which ones seem realistic to him and which do not.  Get agreement and buy-in.  Be immediately clear when he doesn't meet the standard. Now this is assuming that he cares to meet your standards.  If he doesn't I don't think there's much you can do.  If he does, for me, clarity of what you desire is all I as a thinking and engaged and committed human being need.

_____________________________

Sunshine

Is it not most transformative, most earthshaking, to pierce the veils of self-deception and illusion, and crack the eggshell of ignorance, to most intimately encounter oneself? Lama Surya Das

(in reply to Tarantuladoll)
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RE: How to train him - 9/7/2007 6:33:06 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		I think the first step to training a submissive or a slave is that the dominant/owner have trained herself.

This means figuring out what you want, what you need, and how you want things done. It takes time and it make time experimenting too, it may change over time so have some flexibility when you set forth what you want in your Ds relationship.

Write it out. Writing forces you to think again about everything. Set it aside and then review and revise it. Be as clear as you can be. Include everything you can think of. Play out scenarios in your mind and try out different possible interactions. Act things out in front of a mirror if you like, get comfortable with any rules or rituals you may have included. Now revise again.

Then share that with your would be submissive. You might ask him to do a similar thing so you can compare expectations, desires and needs.

Then you negotiate. Find common ground. Make sure it's common ground and not one person or both people giving up things which are important to them -- that can cause resentment.

Then you put that into action. You both have to maintain it but as the dominant you need to also enforce it but first never ignoring a slip up and second never rewarding a slip up.

It won't be easy for probably several months as you both learn to live in the new authority structure. Over time it will not only become easier but it may become second nature.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Tarantuladoll)
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RE: How to train him - 9/7/2007 7:28:09 AM   
cbtok


Posts: 70
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline 		I have to say, I really like arayofsunshine55's answer because she is suggesting that you look for a "buy-in" from him to "close the deal" (I'm thinking she used to be in sales if she isn't still).

The issue with relationships is that one negotiates them without thinking that one is negotiating. So his actions and reactions are, to a certain extent, derived from what allowances you have made for him in the past. Now you want to "change things." and that requires negotiation while thinking about negotiation. Which means you're going to need to re-train, which is always harder than training.

He's not being respectful as you define it, so you need to be absolutely clear as to what that looks like and how that will be acted out. And there may be times when both of you just need to let down your hair and stop with any formality so one thing that you might consider is to have an agreed-upon signal between the two of you that will indicate that he shall treat you with the kind of respect that you require out of someone who is submitting.

Many use the application of a collar for this purpose and, if that's what the two of you choose, I would recommend that you fasten it tightly; almost to the point of discomfort as a reminder. Something that is felt physically can change how the brain operates and can change habits. And that is the essence of re-training, changing habitual behaviors.

_____________________________

What if there were no hypothetical questions?

(in reply to thetammyjo)
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RE: How to train him - 9/7/2007 7:37:05 AM   
rob425


Posts: 154
Joined: 12/1/2005
Status: offline 		A chasity belt might let him know that you control a certain part of him...Constant reminder and only you will have the power to let him oiut

(in reply to cbtok)
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RE: How to train him - 9/7/2007 8:52:51 AM   
Tarantuladoll


Posts: 22
Joined: 9/2/2007
Status: offline 		     Thank you all for your time and responses.  It is great to have a place to learn and gain from other people’s experience.            
    I think I  should have given a little more background.   All of my prior D/s relationships have been with women.  My husband is new to the BDSM scene.  While we are both enjoying ourselves, this is a new experience for both of us (in different ways).  It is not that there is a power struggle, just that we are finding our way into the lifestyle and kind of working things out as we go along.

(in reply to rob425)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: How to train him - 9/7/2007 2:51:28 PM   
arayofsunshine55


Posts: 545
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: San Francisco, CA
Status: offline 		That's a delicious place to be IMO, the finding your way together as you go along.  I think there is a challenge in deciding how you will perceive things.  Is he not a respectful servant?  Is he a servant?  What does respcetful look like?  What have you agreed upon?  It is a delicious dance IMO.  Very.  A lovely tango.

_____________________________

Sunshine

Is it not most transformative, most earthshaking, to pierce the veils of self-deception and illusion, and crack the eggshell of ignorance, to most intimately encounter oneself? Lama Surya Das

(in reply to Tarantuladoll)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: How to train him - 9/7/2007 6:41:54 PM   
EternalInferno


Posts: 47
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarantuladoll

What I ment about fight and stuggle is more on the terms of what you are talking about,"playful", but the problem is the not playful.  I want to correct it without taking away from his playfulness.  


Hello Tarantuladoll,

You are in a very exciting place to be, but one that will certainly have it's frustrations!  I don't envy you that, but since you like the fight, it could be fun!  You might want to keep a diary! lol  But you are much younger than I and less likly to forget as I do!  I think that most who posted had about the same theme and that is a good place to start, but it might be a bit confusing.  Read, read, read...  I haven't been in an established relationship and changing the dynamics quite like this, so I can't really say a lot that would be something I would feel accountable in giving, but I can give you some things that have helped me and they were quite fun!  I so love implementing them! lol  I love the reaction I get from such simple things that forewarn of what is to come!

Perfect a certain look or tone of voice or something short and sweet to say to get his attention once you have some foundation for them.  Basically that would be after you have figured out what you want and how to proceed from what everyone has suggested.  I love the mind games and play that can turn serious on a dime if the submissive is a bit overboard.  I ask a lot of questions real fast and start with one topic getting his mind going in one direction, then I toss in a different question with new topic.  I normally only work with two topics at a time.  He doesn't realize it right away, at the begining anyway, but I have caught him off guard and he is thinking of one thing and knows he quickly has to give me an answer to the new question and I find most are not able to form an answer and I get a gut reaction type answer.  Many will try to move around a question and avoid certain things somehow.  For those who go that direction, this is what works for me.

When I have discovered anything of interest or they start to cross a line, I give that statment such as "Oh really"  Not actually a question and more a statement.  For one who has had some time with me, they know they are walking a thin line! lol  I so love the look on their face at this moment!  Priceless!  Or I raise one eye brow or maybe even two for the more shocking of situations. {smile}  God can you tell I love this? lol  I may have to do something purely evil tonight!

Oh.. okay, I am in control again....

Just step lightly at first.  Draw him in like a moth to a flame.  An over heavy hand in this situation could turn ugly.  You need the foundation before you can freely put some weight behind your hand.  Good Luck and much fun to you both!

(in reply to Tarantuladoll)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: How to train him - 9/7/2007 7:33:48 PM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		I read a lot of responses here that give men too much credit and attribute too much enigma to them. 

I'm not sure if you really want him to be submissive or if you just enjoy the act of taming.  I've had recent troubles keeping My Pet from becoming an all-out robot, while keeping her submissive to me.  I have been trying to schedule time where she can be the other attributes I like.  Sometimes she is a playful puppy, sometimes she is a teddybear to hold and watch The Food Network with.  Sometimes she is My Little Jezibel.

To generalize this, I would advise you to first decide what you really want.  Are you sure the 'kill' so to speak will exceed the 'hunt?' If you do want him trained, train whatever attributes you like.  Hammer out the attributes you don't like.  While doing that, set time aside for him to be feral in a controlled manner.  There's no rule saying you can't have fun taming him.  I'm not sure how much you'd dig it if it was staged, though.  I know when My Pet is being... bratty... it's a game.

Just remember, men are more simple than they appear.

_____________________________

The Loving Owner of HisHeavan

... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

(in reply to EternalInferno)
Profile   Post #: 13
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