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RE: Are you Psychic and how does this affect your relat... - 9/8/2007 4:09:55 AM   
came4U


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Susan,

I knew this would happen.

haha

(in reply to tsherpet)
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RE: Are you Psychic and how does this affect your relat... - 9/8/2007 4:21:44 AM   
SusanofO


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came4u: That's 'cuz you're psychic? hehe

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to came4U)
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RE: Are you Psychic and how does this affect your relat... - 9/8/2007 4:27:18 AM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
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whew,

that nice.  Most of my friends would change that 'ic' to an 'o' but ok. Yer sooo kind! *giggles franticly

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RE: Are you Psychic and how does this affect your relat... - 9/8/2007 4:33:19 AM   
SusanofO


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came4u: Well 'ya know - these early morning  threads can be rewarding..maybe I will go look up more "data" - so people will have something to read. Here I go....back in a sec.


I did find this. I will also search for an article that relates to the topic more closely (promise). But I thought this might be relevant (your choice, readers...) It relates specifically to belief in an after-life - but I believe what he says here might transfer to belief in proof of psychic phenomena in general.
 THE SKEPTICS
by Victor Zammit
Article by a Retired Lawyer of the Supreme Court of New South Wales,
and the High Court of Australia
  - named Victor Zammit

FUNDING CLOSED-MINDED SKEPTICS IS LIKE POURING MONEY DOWN THE DRAIN
Closed-minded skeptics don't get results
It is universally established that historically, closed-minded skeptics have never ever found anything genuinely positive in psychic phenomena. Even if one produces tons of evidence for the absolute validity of psychic phenomena, it is now sadly irrevocably established that the closed-minded skeptic does not have the intrinsic capacity and the equanimity to accept the evidence of valid psychic phenomena.
As you will see hereunder, pouring money onto these said skeptics - as happened in England-in an endeavor to find some positive evidence of psychic phenomena is like foolishly, negligently, wastefully and irresponsibly pouring precious money, energy and time down the drain. Why?

1. Psychology: Rationalization through Cognitive Dissonance
Let's borrow a page from traditional psychology. When a skeptic receives information - say, scientific proof for the afterlife - which is fundamentally inconsistent with his or her entrenched cherished beliefs, the skeptic tries to rationalize his/her beliefs to reduce and to offset the intense biological, emotional and mental anxiety. The intense anxiety is created by the information that the afterlife exists.

The skeptic's mind tries to resist and reject this new information (even if the information is the absolute truth) - hence the cognitive (the mind) 'dissonance' - between the new information - (i.e., the positive evidence for the afterlife) and the skeptic's own personal beliefs that the afterlife cannot exist.

Closed-minded skepticism is extremely difficult to shift because his/her skepticism is 'electrically wired' into the skeptic's neurological, psychological, intellectual and emotional belief system. Thus with absolute certainty, this skeptic inexorably loses all sense of empirical equanimity.

Then the skeptic tries to rationalize his/her own personal beliefs and will try to rubbish, denigrate, dismiss and destroy the new information (including scientific proof of some psychic phenomenon) which gives the skeptic a lot of intense anxiety. This skeptic cannot allow his lifelong deeply cherished beliefs against an afterlife to be proved wrong, to be totally incorrect. So this skeptic will use every trick, every bit of energy and every means to try to rationales i.e., to reduce cognitive dissonance. She will defend her skepticism and ridicule and viciously attack any positive evidence for the afterlife - which is causing the anxiety to the skeptic. I repeat, all sense of scientific objectivity will be lost.

2. Neurolinguistic Programming (NLP)
Deletions, generalizations and distortions. A professional NLP practitioner would view closed-minded skeptics as willfully and/or unconsciously using a series of filters to delete all critical information inconsistent with their existing 'map of reality'. Thus the tendency for modern skeptics in parapsychology is to ignore or to unconsciously censor or filter survival research (the afterlife is impossible so why investigate it?) and concentrate on the ancillary aspects of psychic phenomena - e.g. psychokinesis, cards, etc.

Skeptics can be seen to overgeneralize saying for instance that because some mediums are fraudulent therefore all mediums are fraudulent. (note:This sounds familiar).

Further, skeptics distort information saying that because it may be possible to reproduce certain phenomena by fraud - even at odds of one billion to one - that they have proven that fraud took place. In this sense, the skeptics find it impossible to transcend their 'metaprogram' (their overriding world view of reality) of materialistic beliefs.

3. Self promotion 

One reason why some skeptics, especially psychologists at university, become crusading anti-psychics is to promote their own careers. Academics who are ambitious and want promotion have to publish, have to be seen to be making some noise in society to be noticed. There is an adage applied to university lecturers - "publish or perish". These academics know that there is still some hostility towards psychic phenomena by some powerful recalcitrant members of the establishment - and these academics become sycophantic and play up to this for some immediate or long term personal favors and career incentives.
-- Victor Zammit (May 2001)
Copyright © 2001 Victor Zammit.  All rights reserved.  --  


Last modified 01/18/2006 17:59:35


- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/8/2007 4:51:05 AM >


_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to came4U)
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RE: Are you Psychic and how does this affect your relat... - 9/8/2007 4:35:42 AM   
came4U


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lol

you data-looker you.

trying to convince of psychic abilities or the non-existance of em is like digging for the Holy Grail.

I foresee this thread going to 33 pages.

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: Are you Psychic and how does this affect your relat... - 9/8/2007 4:43:25 AM   
SusanofO


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came4U: That might be a record - of course, it's possible that not much can really compete with the "Married cheaters" threads for that dubious honor, perhaps.

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/8/2007 5:26:13 AM >


_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to came4U)
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RE: Are you Psychic and how does this affect your relat... - 9/8/2007 4:45:19 AM   
came4U


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If that Mindfreak guy is really psychic, wouldn't he notice that if he hangs with Brittany that his life and reputation would be in ruin soon? lol

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RE: Are you Psychic and how does this affect your relat... - 9/8/2007 4:47:15 AM   
tsherpet


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SusanofO,
I can't believe you brought up that guy. You really do have no standards for valueing information do you.

"Even if one produces tons of evidence for the absolute validity of psychic phenomena,"

Even if? No one has provided any evidence yet. Including this guy.

"When a skeptic receives information - say, scientific proof for the afterlife "

This has never happened. This guy's idea of "scientific proof" is the personal anecdotes of self professed psychics. In fact his various commentaries purposefully steer away from scientific standards of proof.

"the skeptic tries to rationalize his/her beliefs to reduce and to offset the intense biological, emotional and mental anxiety. The intense anxiety is created by the information that the afterlife exists."

Actually some of the delusions match emotional and mental anxiety. Others match the flaws we know about in memory and perception. It is not a rationalisation but a amtch to what we know from other areas.

"The intense anxiety is created by the information that the afterlife exists.
The skeptic's mind tries to resist and reject this new information (even if the information is the absolute truth)"

LOL, the problem does not lie with rejection of new information, but in the abscence of new information to old stories.

I'm not even going to bother with the rest of that rubbish. The guy's whole website is a joke.

(in reply to came4U)
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RE: Are you Psychic and how does this affect your relat... - 9/8/2007 4:56:21 AM   
SusanofO


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tsherpet: Okay with me. I didn't expect you to bother with it. But I posted it in the name of giving people who believe in this kind of thing "equal time", so to speak. Because you've spent considerable time trying to paint them all with the same broad brush and insinuatung they are all somewhat off-balance. Considering you don't know every single person claiming to be a psychic in the world, I think that's a little unfair. 

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to tsherpet)
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RE: Are you Psychic and how does this affect your relat... - 9/8/2007 5:03:54 AM   
tsherpet


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"A professional NLP practitioner would view closed-minded skeptics as willfully and/or unconsciously using a series of filters to delete all critical information inconsistent with their existing 'map of reality'. "

Critical information is the low succes rate of psychics and the superior performance of psychologists.

"Skeptics can be seen to overgeneralize saying for instance that because some mediums are fraudulent therefore all mediums are fraudulent."

Had to keep going, this absolute lie had to be addressed. It is not that all psychics are frauds, just that no psychic has substantiated THEIR OWN claims.

"One reason why some skeptics, especially psychologists at university, become crusading anti-psychics is to promote their own careers."

Questioning psychic claims does not rpomote ones career, it is merely the logical standard position ofr any unfounded claim. Psychic claims are not singled out.
On the other hand there is a massive market for books that promote belief in psychic ability. That is where the career advancment lies for those authors.

"Academics who are ambitious and want promotion have to publish, have to be seen to be making some noise in society to be noticed. There is an adage applied to university lecturers - "publish or perish". "

But one must publish results. Publishing the standard position of unfounded claims will do nothing for a lecturers publishing commitments. Though a paper investigating the possibility of psychic abilities might be able to satisfy those requirements.

"These academics know that there is still some hostility towards psychic phenomena by some powerful recalcitrant members of the establishment "

LOL, there is no hostility. Psychics are a joke, not a threat.

"Okay with me. I didn't expect you to bother with it. "

LOL, I have bothered with it previously. Quite a while ago and much earlier in this thread. In fact I'm a little surprised someone didn't mention him in regards to money challenges as he has set up a really lopsided one.
Just because the guy is a joke doesn't mean I haven't read what he has to say.
The guy says what his target audience wants to hear so he can take their money.

"But I posted it in the name of giving people who believe in this kind of thing "equal time", so to speak."

Equal time would be actual evidence. That guy actually proves my point, he does not help "real" psychics one bit.

"because you've spent considerable time trying to paint them all with the same broad brush and insinuatung they are all somewhat off-balance. "

Actually my main point has been psychic inability to prove their own claims. Also some of the meory and perception stuff is not about being off balance, it is about recognising the normal functioning of the brain and how it effects us. I'm not picking on anyone, unless providing knowledge is picking on the ignorant?

"Considering you don't know every single person claiming to be a psychic in the world"

Never said I did. I have been talking baout psychic who have tried and failed to rpove themselves and trying to find reasons why someone wouldn't try and prove their abilities. It's called a discussion.

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: Are you Psychic and how does this affect your relat... - 9/8/2007 5:04:44 AM   
SusanofO


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This could be fun to do - test your own psychic powers - below. Actually, I am not sure if these can be re-created immediately (the first one I am nt sure about) - but some can - and IMO it does give some idea of some tests used to test someone's psychic powers (some of the methods, although I am sure there are many more). 

- Susan

Test Your Psychic Powers

Here are two online tests that allow you to measure and perhaps strengthen your telepathic powers. See how well I scored, then try the tests for yourself.
We all have telepathic powers to some degree, according to the psychic community, we just need to learn how to develop them. That's easy for them to say when they're out there predicting earthquakes, describing people's auras, and sensing what Madonna is going to do next.

Me? If I was asked to predict what day it was going to be tomorrow, I'd get it wrong three times out of five. I seem to have no powers of extrasensory perception, telepathy, clairvoyance, or precognition. I can recall only one time that I predicted something correctly. I had just arrived at Penn Station in New York, and a string quartet had set up to play for commuters and arriving and departing passengers. As soon as I saw them I knew they were going to play a certain Mozart piece. Sure enough, of all things, that is indeed what they played. A lucky guess or premonition?

Most people have probably had such experiences one or more times in their lives. How about you? Would you like to test the power of your psychic mind - to find out, perhaps, just how strong your telepathic abilities are? There are several interactive online tests that allow you to see how well you do at predicting or influencing randomly chosen events. Here's how I scored on the tests. Try them yourself and let me know how you scored.

Test 1: The Color Wheel
The ESP Tester is provided by the Association for Research and Enlightenment, an organization founded by Edgar Cayce. You will need the Shockwave plug-in to run it. The test consists of a color wheel on which radiate 10 colors. The computer has chosen one of these colors, and it's your task to click on the one you "sense" that it is. If you get an exact match, you receive 25 points; if you're one color away, 5 points, 2 colors away, 1 point; otherwise no points. You get 20 tries, and at the end you receive a score, 400 being perfect. Here's how I did:
  • Trial 1: I scored an amazing 108 points - getting four exact matches in a row! It's a score they rate as "very good."
  • Trial 2: I scored just 48 points - "below chance."
  • Trial 3: I scored 81 points - "above chance."


Test 2: The Zener Cards

The Hexatron Psychic Trainer uses a computer set of Zener cards -- a set of five cards, each containing a distinctive symbol, often used in tests of ESP. The computer randomly selects one of the cards and you must divine which one it is by clicking on it. You'll need the Java plug-in to run this one. Here's how I scored:
  • Trial 1: I scored 5 hits out of 20 trials - only 19% above chance.
  • Trial 2: I scored 8 out of 20 - 100% above chance.
  • Trial 3: I scored 3 out of 20 - 25% below chance.


How To Do Better
What should I do to increase my psychic powers? I could keep trying the above tests. They say that psychic ability, like many other human abilities, strengthens and improves with practice and exercise.

[Mod Note: image removed]

< Message edited by ModeratorEleven -- 9/8/2007 5:28:41 AM >


_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: Are you Psychic and how does this affect your relat... - 9/8/2007 5:11:25 AM   
came4U


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Some consider Nostradamus a psychic, some believe his writings were of a madman.  Some of his work if compared to modern history can be considered accurate, some say it is a mere luxurious fluke (if you look to compare, you will find a comparason).  There is no answer, yet.  It might be found in our lifetime, most likely not.

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RE: Are you Psychic and how does this affect your relat... - 9/8/2007 5:17:29 AM   
tsherpet


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"They say that psychic ability, like many other human abilities, strengthens and improves with practice and exercise."

Actually the remote viewing project proved psychic ability DOES NOT improve with practice.

Nostradamus can be matched to several periods in history, that's the advantage of ambiguous predictions. That combined with knowledge of geopolitical situations is the answer.

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RE: Are you Psychic and how does this affect your relat... - 9/8/2007 5:17:57 AM   
SusanofO


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came4U: I think that Nostradamus is kinda interesting, too. I don't know a lot of detailed information about his work, and I think I'd have had a better reference for deciding if he was legit if I'd actually lived back then and could have seen him up close and in-person, although many of his predictions (depending on how you read his writings) appear (to me, from what I have read of them) to have come true. That might be interesting to read more about.


tsherpet: Well, maybe it proved that remote viewing , for whatever group of people you are referring to - that particular group of folks, did not improve with practice. Since I can't agree with generalizations, it's hard to decide.

I am not sure what people you are referencing - but the book I read on the Star-gate project stated that those folks went through a training period to hone their abilities before they were put to work for the government (even though the'd been identified as having them anyway, or else they would not have even been chosen for that project), so that group (for a time) had abilities in remote viewing that did improve with practice.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/8/2007 5:36:05 AM >


_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to came4U)
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RE: Are you Psychic and how does this affect your relat... - 9/8/2007 5:23:42 AM   
mnottertail


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I have sent my thoughts out to you, so you already know where I stand, it would be di minimous to type them here.

Ron


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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Are you Psychic and how does this affect your relat... - 9/8/2007 5:24:53 AM   
SusanofO


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mnottertail: Well it is also kind of early for reading this kind of thing, too, really (least I think so).

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/8/2007 5:29:03 AM >


_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Are you Psychic and how does this affect your relat... - 9/8/2007 5:26:42 AM   
came4U


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Mr. Nottertail:

why do I feel that you are picturing Susan naked and wishing she was covered in your man-goo??

lmao

ok, and on Nostradamus, ok so he predicted an anti-Christ named Hister. Being off by one letter. ok, some of his predictions are kinda freaky.  Apparently he tranced during these fits of psychic episodes. A psychic-space you might call it.

< Message edited by came4U -- 9/8/2007 5:28:49 AM >

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RE: Are you Psychic and how does this affect your relat... - 9/8/2007 5:28:10 AM   
mnottertail


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Concentrate harder, I believe you are receiving Susans thoughts on the matter.

R


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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Are you Psychic and how does this affect your relat... - 9/8/2007 5:28:17 AM   
tsherpet


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"Well, maybe it proved that remote viewing , for whatever group of people you are referring to - that particular group of folks, did not improve with practice. Since I can't agree with generalizations, it's hard to decide. "

I'm referring to the star gate proect.

"but the book I read on the Star-gate project stated that those folks went through a training period to hone their abilities before they were put to work for the government (even though the'd been identified as having them anyway, or ehy would not havce been chosen for that project), so that group (for a time) had abilities in remote viewing that did improve with practice."

The final analysis of the project over all it's years was that the psychics showed no improvement over that time.

Remember some books are written for no other purpose but to satisfy an existing audience.

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RE: Are you Psychic and how does this affect your relat... - 9/8/2007 5:30:55 AM   
SusanofO


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I am indeed a fan of mnottertail's, but actually, I was referring to the thread - it's too early for my "debate mind" to even be awake yet, really.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/8/2007 5:31:14 AM >


_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to tsherpet)
Profile   Post #: 320
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