RE: Perception

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slaveluci -> RE: Perception (9/7/2007 5:37:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subsnow I still think that I would make a great slave but I don't think I could do it for an extended amount of time. I am too hard-headed and stubborn when it comes to things that I believe in, view as meaningless, or see as time consuming See, now here is another misconception you still hold. Assuming that all slaves have to compromise what they "believe in" or do "meaningless" or "time consuming" things just because they are told to is just not true for all of us. I refuse to get into a debate over who is "better" or more "sought after." Frankly, it all depends on who is doing the judging and seeking. There are great folks in both categories. To assume that, as a slave, one has to "bend" on what they believe in or waste all their time doing nonsensical busywork is just not true. Please understand that the title of "slave" doesn't mean that one becomes a mindless lump who wiles away all his/her time doing nothing very important simply because they are told to. Some do, I'm sure, but not all. quote: Maybe I just haven't found the right Master and my view of the D/s relationship has been tainted Very very possible. quote: I'm wondering if my previous perception of what a slave is in the BDSM world is correct To some. quote: Are slaves considered exceptional? By some. quote: Are those who are only sexually submissive looked down upon? By some. quote: Are they looked at as having less experience or understanding? By some. To group all subs or all slaves into only two different groups is about as effective in understanding them as grouping all men and all women into only two different groups. Are all men the same? No. Are all women? No. So then neither are all subs/slaves. There are sooooo many different variations among us[;)]..............luci

kdsub -> RE: Perception (9/7/2007 5:42:54 PM)
I’ve always found it hard to classify myself. I often change, not only over time, but also minute by minute. I often feel one way before sexual release and quite another way after. Now I do understand this is not the way I should be…. and could be the reason I have trouble in my relationships…. but it is just the way it is. I figure it takes all kinds to make the whole and how could you judge yourself against others if there were no differences. Somewhere I’m sure there is another person who will find my attributes attractive and they will not worry about classifications. But being outside of a normal or accepted way of acting may make the search harder. Butch

witchywoman313 -> RE: Perception (9/7/2007 5:48:16 PM)
I'm a pet, I am tottaly devoted to my Master, yet free to make up my own mind about everyone else. I'm a spoilt pet, becouse I get to sit on the funature, sleap in the bed, and dont have to eat out of a little pet dish (unless I really want to). I also get to capitalize my name, and play with other people, and beg for what I want. (sometimes I even get it/ well usualy I do) I found it hard for me to find a lable that fits this one does, the way I use it anyway. Other lables that sometimes or always fit who I am and my primary relationship. Wife, Switch, Top, bottom, sub, swinger. Even though I am sometimes a Top I am never a Mistress. And to me pet is not grater then, or less then, but nor does it equal slave. I would politly correct anyone who said that a collared sub/pet is a slave. Once a sweet newbee girl we were having room with us asked me "If your a pet and not a slave why do you get to wear a collar?" I asked her "Dont your pets wear collars?" It seems somone online had told her that only slaves get to wear a collar. Sometimes Lables have their uses but I find for the most part no word or lable can describe anyone 100%.

SubJordanTyler -> RE: Perception (9/7/2007 6:22:46 PM)
As long as I'm special to the one who collars me, that is all that matters. I don't consider myself a slave, as I would call myself a submissive. But I'm also a masochist and a sexual submissive. So that might put me in a few different categories. But like everyone else has said, be who you are and the one who is the right one will see you and accept you for that.

bipolarber -> RE: Perception (9/7/2007 6:38:32 PM)
By now, you've probably picked up on the two main responses: 1) be who you are, and 2) how "valued" you are is entirely subjective. Value is in the eye of the beholder. As to number one... This is exactly why I turned to Taoist philosophy. Years ago, I was haunted by the same questions you seem to be asking yourself. So I started looking around at some of the various schools of thought, to see if I could find a few answers. I found a couple of very small books, which were quite fun to read, called "The Tao of Pooh" and "The Te of Piglet" by Benjamin Hoff. It's where I found not so much answers, but an approach that made me re-think the questions. To be more in tune with "The Way." To do so, I had to find my Pu... my essential self, and own up to it. You might want to check it out for yourself. I'm sure your local library can find the books for you, if they don't already have them, so you won't be out any money, if it turns out it's not for you.

rmanrr -> RE: Perception (9/7/2007 7:49:47 PM)
Greetings To My mind, a sub is as valuable as a slave. Why? because I think it so. Further, My FC is a Free Woman. She is equally valuable as any other, except to Me she is more valuable than any other woman period. Why? Simply because she is all things to Me depending on the situational context. During our first 3 days together I witnessed her move from persona to persona depending completely on what we were doing at the time. She performed the changes effortlessly without pretense and seamlessly. My perception? She is Mine and mine, I am hers and Hers. In all things, in all manner of thought, we are a matched pair. Does it boggle My mind at times, freaking right it does! Am I glad we threw anchors at each other rather than passing by as ships in the night? Damn Straight I Am! Is it exciting? well duh. Scary? deliciously so. To have someone like that in My life has again provided Me with renewed vigor, strength, vitality, and purpose. In short.....YIPPPEEEEE! 5 more days...

TreasureKY -> RE: Perception (9/7/2007 7:53:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subsnow When I first entered into the D/s lifestyle, I used to want to be a slave. I was just the opposite... the term "slave" made me very uncomfortable as it evoked fantasy images and I was seeking reality. It is just a word and it holds great meaning to many, but I refused to place that label on myself because of those images. That's not to say that the fantasy doesn't hold appeal for me, but I cannot live in a fantasy and I didn't just want to "visit". In the end, I just found it easier and more realistic for me to use "submissive" in reference to myself. As others have said, what really counts is what works for you. While I don't like getting into the slave vs. submissive debate, I will admit that I've occasionally felt a pang of jealousy when I've heard other submissives being described as having slave tendencies or being slave material. It isn't that I equate a slave as somehow being better than a submissive, but that somewhere in my mind I've developed the impression that slaves are desired more than submissives. I guess along with that intense desire to be found pleasing, I've also a matching desire to be wanted. [;)]

mbes -> RE: Perception (9/7/2007 8:25:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bipolarber By now, you've probably picked up on the two main responses: 1) be who you are, and 2) how "valued" you are is entirely subjective. Value is in the eye of the beholder. As to number one... This is exactly why I turned to Taoist philosophy. Years ago, I was haunted by the same questions you seem to be asking yourself. So I started looking around at some of the various schools of thought, to see if I could find a few answers. I found a couple of very small books, which were quite fun to read, called "The Tao of Pooh" and "The Te of Piglet" by Benjamin Hoff. It's where I found not so much answers, but an approach that made me re-think the questions. To be more in tune with "The Way." To do so, I had to find my Pu... my essential self, and own up to it. You might want to check it out for yourself. I'm sure your local library can find the books for you, if they don't already have them, so you won't be out any money, if it turns out it's not for you. I've read that first one and loved it! I'll have to look for the second, I didn't know there was one. Thanks! As you said, not so much for answers, but for different ways of looking at the questions, they're great.

RRafe -> RE: Perception (9/7/2007 8:38:47 PM)
Doing chores and feeding someone doesn't make you superior-it makes you a free maid. quote: ORIGINAL: subsnow When I first entered into the D/s lifestyle, I used to want to be a slave. I thought that slaves were more valuable or more sought after in the BDSM world. I believed that they were the cream of the crop because they were able to submit to everything. I wanted to be that. I still think that I would make a great slave but I don't think I could do it for an extended amount of time. I am too hard-headed and stubborn when it comes to things that I believe in, view as meaningless, or see as time consuming. Now I consider myself a submissive and I prefer it if the power exchange remains in the bedroom. Maybe I just haven't found the right Master and my view of the D/s relationship has been tainted. I digress. I'm wondering if my previous perception of what a slave is in the BDSM world is correct. Are slaves considered exceptional? Are those who are only sexually submissive looked down upon? Are they looked at as having less experience or understanding?

pleasureforck -> RE: Perception (9/8/2007 11:58:53 AM)
I think you should just be yourself and not worry about labels. How you submit really does depend on who you are with and what they want too I think. My SO wouldn't want me as a 24/7 slave and I wouldn't want to be. If he wanted that maybe I would feel differently though. I never knew I would be submitting as much as I do now so I won't bother trying to guess what could be. As we build our relationship it will become what is right for us both. I don't care what anyone else wants to label me. I am who he wants and that's what matters.

gypsygrl -> RE: Perception (9/8/2007 12:14:33 PM)
I agree with those who said (in so many words) that 'slave' has meaning only in the context of a particular relationship and doesn't describe any essential characteristics of a person occupying that position. So, when I recently decided to enter an M/s relationship, nothing about me changed. I used to describe myself as a submissive woman, and that description still holds true. I had never before called myself a slave because I had never been in that kind of relationship. I agree there's a perception that slaves are somehow better than submissives as if they were 'more than' submissives and take their submission to deeper levels. That, to me, doesn't make sense because the so-called depths of my submission depends entirely on the other person, whether they will accept it and create an environment where I can express it in active ways.

phoenixsub999 -> RE: Perception (9/8/2007 1:37:46 PM)
Labels, labels, labels - I have to agree with everyone who said don't worry about labels, but be who you are and don't worry about what others think. There is no 'better' or 'worse'. It's more about finding what is right for you and finding the right dynamic with compatible partner. For me, submission in the bedroom is hot and I love it when my guy is acts very dominant with me, but I'm a totally independent, competent do-it-yourself girl otherwise. Does this mean I'm not even "in the lifestyle'? Do I even care what people call it?

slavegirljoy -> RE: Perception (9/9/2007 5:08:55 AM)
i agree with you, gypsygrl, except that i believe that the desire to be enslaved has always been a part of my essential character. i have always felt a very deep need to belong to and serve another and to be under their control but, without a willing person to take ownership of me and make me their slave, i wasn't able to be a slave. i was a submissive with the desire to be a slave. Without a Master to enslave me, i don't consider myself a slave. Also, i am the slave of a particular Master and my label of "slave" is with respect to the relationship that i have with Him. To every other Dom and submissive, that Wwe play with, i am a submissive, who is the slave of Master David. It's the same with my Master. He's Master to me but, to the submissives Wwe play with, He isn't a Master, He is a Dom. The label of "slave", that i use to describe me, is strictly in reference to the dynamics and power structureof the particular relationship i am in now. Not only that but, for me, life is not static, and, i am not static. Life changes my situation, my experience, my knowledge, my understanding, and my perception. And, my labels change, accordingly. i change and i grow, as an individual, as well as, part of a couple. With each new experience and with each new relationship, i am a new person. That doesn't mean that i am no longer who i was before but, i'm not exactly the same as i was, either. If someone, who hadn't seen me in 20 years, were to see me today, they would know me, even though i don't look exactly the same, because i've changed and aged. Things about my appearance have changed over the years but, i am still recognizable as the same person. The same is true for my personality. i'm basically the same person. The basic character traits that makes me, me, are still the same. But, i'm not exactly the same as i was before. i've grown and become the person i am today. Life is fluid and so am i. That's why some of the labels i use have changed over time and some have stayed the same. For example, i didn't always use the label of "mom" but, i do now. But, i have always used the label of "female" and still do. i also use the label of "girl", with respect to the way i feel inside and with respect to how i perceive myself, especially within my intimate relationships. i also use the label of "masochist", again, only with respect to my intimate sexual relationships. And, i use the label of "slave" now, but i didn't always and that could change again. i don't live my life according to a label. i don't become a label. The label i choose doesn't form the basis for who i am and how i live. Who i am and how i live forms the basis for the label i choose. i don't pick a label and then live my life according to what's expected for someone using that label. i live my life according to what feels right for me and then pick a label that comes closest to fitting who i am and what i do. A label doesn't help me to know who i am. i already know who i am. A label helps me to tell others who i am. Not sure if any of this make sense or if i am trying to explain something that maybe can't be explained? Any way, this is how i see it. slave joy Owned property of Master David ______________________________________________________ "Are We there, yet? Not quite. We all evolve at our own pace." quote: ORIGINAL: gypsygrl I agree with those who said (in so many words) that 'slave' has meaning only in the context of a particular relationship and doesn't describe any essential characteristics of a person occupying that position. So, when I recently decided to enter an M/s relationship, nothing about me changed. I used to describe myself as a submissive woman, and that description still holds true. I had never before called myself a slave because I had never been in that kind of relationship. I agree there's a perception that slaves are somehow better than submissives as if they were 'more than' submissives and take their submission to deeper levels. That, to me, doesn't make sense because the so-called depths of my submission depends entirely on the other person, whether they will accept it and create an environment where I can express it in active ways.

LeatherBentOne -> RE: Perception (9/9/2007 6:39:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy i agree with you, gypsygrl, except that i believe that the desire to be enslaved has always been a part of my essential character. i have always felt a very deep need to belong to and serve another and to be under their control but, without a willing person to take ownership of me and make me their slave, i wasn't able to be a slave. i was a submissive with the desire to be a slave. Without a Master to enslave me, i don't consider myself a slave. Also, i am the slave of a particular Master and my label of "slave" is with respect to the relationship that i have with Him. To every other Dom and submissive, that Wwe play with, i am a submissive, who is the slave of Master David. It's the same with my Master. He's Master to me but, to the submissives Wwe play with, He isn't a Master, He is a Dom. The label of "slave", that i use to describe me, is strictly in reference to the dynamics and power structureof the particular relationship i am in now. Not only that but, for me, life is not static, and, i am not static. Life changes my situation, my experience, my knowledge, my understanding, and my perception. And, my labels change, accordingly. i change and i grow, as an individual, as well as, part of a couple. With each new experience and with each new relationship, i am a new person. That doesn't mean that i am no longer who i was before but, i'm not exactly the same as i was, either. If someone, who hadn't seen me in 20 years, were to see me today, they would know me, even though i don't look exactly the same, because i've changed and aged. Things about my appearance have changed over the years but, i am still recognizable as the same person. The same is true for my personality. i'm basically the same person. The basic character traits that makes me, me, are still the same. But, i'm not exactly the same as i was before. i've grown and become the person i am today. Life is fluid and so am i. That's why some of the labels i use have changed over time and some have stayed the same. For example, i didn't always use the label of "mom" but, i do now. But, i have always used the label of "female" and still do. i also use the label of "girl", with respect to the way i feel inside and with respect to how i perceive myself, especially within my intimate relationships. i also use the label of "masochist", again, only with respect to my intimate sexual relationships. And, i use the label of "slave" now, but i didn't always and that could change again. i don't live my life according to a label. i don't become a label. The label i choose doesn't form the basis for who i am and how i live. Who i am and how i live forms the basis for the label i choose. i don't pick a label and then live my life according to what's expected for someone using that label. i live my life according to what feels right for me and then pick a label that comes closest to fitting who i am and what i do. A label doesn't help me to know who i am. i already know who i am. A label helps me to tell others who i am. Not sure if any of this make sense or if i am trying to explain something that maybe can't be explained? Any way, this is how i see it. slave joy Owned property of Master David ______________________________________________________ "Are We there, yet? Not quite. We all evolve at our own pace." quote: ORIGINAL: gypsygrl I agree with those who said (in so many words) that 'slave' has meaning only in the context of a particular relationship and doesn't describe any essential characteristics of a person occupying that position. So, when I recently decided to enter an M/s relationship, nothing about me changed. I used to describe myself as a submissive woman, and that description still holds true. I had never before called myself a slave because I had never been in that kind of relationship. I agree there's a perception that slaves are somehow better than submissives as if they were 'more than' submissives and take their submission to deeper levels. That, to me, doesn't make sense because the so-called depths of my submission depends entirely on the other person, whether they will accept it and create an environment where I can express it in active ways. A lovely explanation of who you are and the journey of your growth which is ever-changing.

slavegirljoy -> RE: Perception (9/9/2007 8:08:19 AM)
LeatherBentOne, Thank you very much for your kind and encouraging words. slave joy Owned property of Master David

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: Perception (9/9/2007 9:06:15 AM)
I think we all go through stages in the lifestyle. Newbe stagie of discovery, Identy role of dom ;sub ;domme; slave. growing in the role of that identy. spiritual walk with that person your with and your self. now this is going happen over years.

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: Perception (9/9/2007 9:09:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross No orientation is more or less exceptional than another. HOWEVER, the "scene" in general has an attitude that slavery is cooler/deeper/more intense than other forms of orientation. So, fuck em. Be who you are. And don't make the mistake of thinking slaves are NOT stubborn- orientations are about what dynamic we want in our relationships. Nothing to do with personality. i disagree that slavery is the utmose form of submission adult babies are they give up all control and every choice is made for them

angelic -> RE: Perception (9/9/2007 9:17:47 AM)
i do not really fit in any category and that used to really bother me. i came to the realization that i am just me. The most important thing to me is finding the right fit in a Dom/Master. When that happens, he can call me cinderfuckinrella for all i care. [;)]

chellekitty -> RE: Perception (9/9/2007 9:22:01 AM)
i like labels but they stepped on my label maker....something about labeling all the toilet paper and dogs as property of chelle....i don't know whats so bad about that....

angelic -> RE: Perception (9/9/2007 9:26:53 AM)
Yikes, was that yours? [8D] Yes. For some labels are good; for others not so much. i, myself, am a recovering labelmaker!

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