Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

recourse as a sub/slave matures


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Submissive >> recourse as a sub/slave matures Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
recourse as a sub/slave matures - 7/14/2005 11:39:53 AM   
softandshy


Posts: 297
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline
i'm asking this simply because i am curious. It concerns those people who are in a long term relationship, 24/7, and for the first two questions those who've given up outside jobs at the request of the Dominant partner. How are they cared for if the Dom/me should pass on, become incapacitated, or any such? Are there normally arrangements to help the sub/slave regain a footing in the greater society? Is there a common way to assure "rights" or allow the sub/slave to help even if the Dom/me is incapacitated temporarily (ie. catches a blow to the head while riding a motorbike and needs someone to make medical decisions for a few months)? What does generally happen to the sub/slave who grows old?

_____________________________

Happy "Swamp Thing"
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: recourse as a sub/slave matures - 7/14/2005 11:50:18 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: softandshy
How are they cared for if the Dom/me should pass on, become incapacitated, or any such?

Some have set up trust funds, the same way any person would do for their spouse. Some give their subs to keepers.

quote:

Are there normally arrangements to help the sub/slave regain a footing in the greater society?

Not normally, but there normally isn't a need for it.

quote:

Is there a common way to assure "rights" or allow the sub/slave to help even if the Dom/me is incapacitated temporarily (ie. catches a blow to the head while riding a motorbike and needs someone to make medical decisions for a few months)?

Not through Ms alone unfortunately, this is a large reason why many choose to become legally married- many more benefits.
quote:


What does generally happen to the sub/slave who grows old?

Same thing as a vanilla person.

(in reply to softandshy)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: recourse as a sub/slave matures - 7/14/2005 11:51:12 AM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
I've not been in this situation. Though I'm answering because I have known other's who have been.
Myself, I would not give up whom I was for anyone. If they cannot accept me for who I am I have little need for them to be in my life.

Although, most I've known in the situation have had life insurance policies. They have had some sort of money coming to them. Usually not enough...probably because no amount of money is enough in today's society.
Generally they are thrust back into the workplace with little to no skills and cannot support themselves.
Bottomwiva just posted on this a week or so ago. How it is hard for her to find a job.
Having to start at the bottom once more.
It is a very rough life for these individuals. Not something I would want to put myself through willingly. You never know just how bad it is going to be until it happens.

Though, some may have different views.

(in reply to softandshy)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: recourse as a sub/slave matures - 7/14/2005 11:58:57 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
Don't forget that this issue is a two way street as well.

I've watched a few respected Masters lose their slave to AIDS and end up very lost for awhile because they have come to depend on their slave's work to keep their lives organized. Suddenly having to do it all themselves again can make the most Domly Master a frantic mess because it's always been done for them.

Many Old Guard Masters I've met have had arrangements made with other trusted Dominants to take over ownership of the slave in the event of their demise.

One slave who I met who was dieing actually wrote a manual for his Master's next slave, devoted to the very end concerned about how Master would survive after the slave had died.

Thinking about such things has been taboo for a much too long a time, good to see that people are discussing the issue.

In Leather

Archer

(in reply to softandshy)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: recourse as a sub/slave matures - 7/14/2005 12:25:03 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Many Old Guard Masters I've met have had arrangements made with other trusted Dominants to take over ownership of the slave in the event of their demise.


I've known one or two of these such couples to occur in my time in the lifestyle.
After the poll on "define slave" it makes me wonder though.
How often does it really occur?

Most slaves love their dominants. Why would you want to serve someone you didn't love?

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: recourse as a sub/slave matures - 7/14/2005 12:26:26 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire
How often does it really occur?

Not very.
quote:


Most slaves love their dominants. Why would you want to serve someone you didn't love?


Because they were told to.

(in reply to sub4hire)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: recourse as a sub/slave matures - 7/14/2005 12:56:15 PM   
stjosub67


Posts: 17
Joined: 5/29/2005
Status: offline
I cannot speak about the psychological issues or laws outside of the U.S., but if a person lived with someone for many years (non-poly) and was never married, it still would be a common law marriage and the slave/sub would have some financial rights.

I agree with EmeraldSlave about it being like a vanilla couple. My mom found herself at 50 divorced and needing to support herself. She had never worked or desired to work a day in her life and had no skills of any kind. I doubt she could even change a light bulb. She pulled herself up and manage to bounce from job to job aquiring skills along the way until she became an employee other companies wanted.

It has to be tough and scary, but not uncommon to many regular woman from divorce or death face all the time.

On a lighter side in regards to Archer comments, one of the funniest sights to see in the grocery store is seeing a man 40+ who clearly has never been in that type of store. Their actions are high comedy.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: recourse as a sub/slave matures - 7/14/2005 2:20:57 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
Usually the slave is owned in trust, ie you own them with the understanding that you are doing so as a favor for a dead freind, and your role is to see to it that the slave makes the transistion. It's an unselfish stewardship kind of ownership. Eventually they will pass on ownership to a new Master after the slave has moarned, one who the slave goes through the negotiation process with. The idea is that the slave is not left alone in the world to fend for themselves. It's not a universal practice but it certainly has merits.
Granted the choice of who to leave your slave to would be as momentous a decision as who to have raise your children if both parents were to die unexpectedly.

In Leather

Archer

(in reply to sub4hire)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: recourse as a sub/slave matures - 7/14/2005 2:31:46 PM   
lonewolf05


Posts: 830
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2


quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire
How often does it really occur?

Not very.
quote:


Most slaves love their dominants. Why would you want to serve someone you didn't love?
------------------------------------


Because they were told to.


-------------------------------


whooooops there it is!
thank YOU E.S.-----
someone understands me.!
the wolf



_____________________________

"there is no gravity, life sucks!"


(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: recourse as a sub/slave matures - 7/14/2005 2:34:47 PM   
stormsfate


Posts: 849
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline
My owner has made arrangements.

I've seen situations as Archer outlined (thinking of one slave in particular who is very well known in the lifestyle). I think that is a more common occurrence in leather families than in situations where there is no "family" involved.



f

_____________________________

Vision? What do you know about MY vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions and the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you! Now ask yourself, are you really ready to see that vision? [/size

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: recourse as a sub/slave matures - 7/15/2005 7:42:31 AM   
pleasureforHim


Posts: 171
Joined: 7/2/2005
Status: offline
Note: This post is intended for entertainment purposes only. For legal advice in your situation, consult an attorney.

There certainly are legal devices available (i only know US law) such as medical directives and living wills, which give some power to one party in a unmarried couple to be the person calling the shots for the other in a time of need. It is just as true that trust funds and life insurance policies may be established to protect one or both partners. (Note: life insurance may not be available because the purchaser is deemed to have no "insurable interest" in the life of the insured.)

The best place to begin is with a will, under which the maker's wishes as to His property and end-of-life decisions are made known. This is especially true if the maker owns real property (a house, a farm) and wishes to bequeath that property to His submissive or slave. Sometimes, the presence of a will allows for a faster, less expensive probate process. The trust fund can be set up to arise under the will upon the maker's death, funded with certain designated property, but unless there's a tax advantage -- and with an unmarried couple i cannot imagine there would be -- a trust rather than an outright bequest is a complication and expense that the maker and beneficiary should probably avoid.

One real problem is hospitals with "family only" visiting policies in their ICU's. Such policies separate the couple as the death of one approaches, and makes the end-of-life decisions very difficult for the other. You can check on these policies by calling your area hospitals.

A couple might consider marriage as one becomes incapacitated or teriminal; the one left behind would recieve survivor benefits from Social Security, as well as Medicare health insurance. A submissive or slave would leave such benefits to her Dom or Master, even if she had not worked outside the home during their relationship, if she had a work history during her lifetime. The Social Security award is generally calculated on the worker's 4 highest earnings quarters. The Social Security Administration will calculate benefits for you. Go to www.ssa.gov.

Marriage, as a legal planning device, gives rise to rights of inheritance that a will challenge -- if successful -- generally cannot remove. These are known as "dower rights" and in most states they are still recognized. The marriage creates the possibility of re-titling the home and other real property as "tenancy by the enterities", meaning upon the death of one spouse, the real property belongs soley to the other, without the need for a will or for probate. Only married couples may hold property in this fashion. Re-titiiling property after marriage is not generally expensive, but should be done by an attorney. Furthermore, a married couple enjoys a rather sizable tax advantage, not only equal to the non-working spouse's personal deduction, but also in reduction of the taxable rate applicable to the couple. Additionally, medical expenses are deductable on the tax return, subject to certain restrictions, to the extent that insurance does not cover them and that they are actually paid.

Adverisements seen on tv for life insurance people aged "50 to 80" may or may not be worth the cost. Once again, an "insurable interest" in the other partner of an unmarried couple may or may not be found in the state you reside in. Furthermore, at this age, or under these circumstances, couples should exercise extreme caution when moving assets into new vehicles, especially ones they do not fully understand. The best person to advise a couple is an independent financial planner. (A person carrying the designation "CFP".) A fairly simple estate should not require a great deal ol planning and thus, of time and expense.

In general, terminally ill people who do not expire quickly are sent to Medicaid nursing homes. Once again, an attorney should be asked to advise the couple. Medicaid has become more and more aggressive about recovering costs, and has recently made a move to acquire the family home upon the death of the spouse who was not in the nursing home. Naturally, in the absense of a marriage, Medicaid might be twarted in this acquisition, If either party to the couple has children they wish to bequeath property to, this should be a consideration. Attorneys skilled in estate planning are generally also skilled in the law of Medicaid planing and asset protection as well -- Medicaid should not be considered a barrier to marriage.

This subject is much too broad to be adequately addressed in a single post. The bottom line is, any committed couple should consider seeing both an estate planning attorney and an independent financial planner. Now, while they're in good health, not later when a crisis has arisen and options have closed.

i presume BDSM couples are like vanilla couples in their relutance to face death and deal with the consequences by drawing up a will; but there is a difference. Masters and Doms have, as i understand it, a very strong prediliction to protect their submissives and slaves. And submissives and slaves, with their deep yearning to assure their Master's or Dom's comfort, will want to ease His days as He dies and then carry out His wishes after death.

Taking the first step -- making the appointment to see the attorney -- is difficult. Howver, good estate planing attorneys can put a client at ease. i have seen first hand the chaos that has arisen from the absence of a living will; a will drawn up by the maker without a lawyer; a will leaving property away from the maker's children, etc. None of it was good. In the throes of grief, the people left behind act rashly and sometimes with cruelty. The purpose of the living will, the will itself, the possible marriage are intended to provide ease and comfort to the maker but furthermore to His or her loved ones.

Lastly; exercise caution whem using "do it yourself" documents garnered from websites or office supply stores. However, as to medical directives or living wills, some area hospitals may have these documents available to you online as part of their web sites and these you can probably rely upon.

Nothing can replace the advice of an estate planning attorney (and the documents he produces) or a certified financial planner.

pleasureforHim


< Message edited by pleasureforHim -- 7/15/2005 8:14:19 AM >

(in reply to stormsfate)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: recourse as a sub/slave matures - 7/16/2005 12:28:31 AM   
mossy


Posts: 189
Joined: 2/21/2005
Status: offline
Thank You very much for that information, You put a lot of effort into that, it was very thourough, and much appreciated

(in reply to pleasureforHim)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: recourse as a sub/slave matures - 7/16/2005 12:52:15 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline
pfH, that was very informative.

One thing I learned is that bequeathing a house in a will does not protect it from the voracious post-mortem appetite of Medicaid. I know a terminally ill woman who left her house to her only living heir, namely her niece, but after Medicaid went through the estate, the niece was left with less than the fee she paid her attorney.

Lam

(in reply to pleasureforHim)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: recourse as a sub/slave matures - 7/16/2005 7:08:17 AM   
softandshy


Posts: 297
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline
Very interesting. Thank you all, pfH and Archer in particular. This is definitely food for thought depending on how serious the relationship becomes.

_____________________________

Happy "Swamp Thing"

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: recourse as a sub/slave matures - 7/16/2005 5:16:40 PM   
slavedesires


Posts: 669
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: softandshy

i'm asking this simply because i am curious. It concerns those people who are in a long term relationship, 24/7, and for the first two questions those who've given up outside jobs at the request of the Dominant partner. How are they cared for if the Dom/me should pass on, become incapacitated, or any such? Are there normally arrangements to help the sub/slave regain a footing in the greater society? Is there a common way to assure "rights" or allow the sub/slave to help even if the Dom/me is incapacitated temporarily (ie. catches a blow to the head while riding a motorbike and needs someone to make medical decisions for a few months)? What does generally happen to the sub/slave who grows old?


Tis the VERY reason, it is demanded of me that i remain in the workforce.
He is protecting me from those very issues.

Only the ones within that relationship with journey with a goal adnt ehy must work out the issues, concerns and destination.
A protective Dom will look after His girl and see to her needs, with or without Him capable of doing it Himself.

~~shy

_____________________________

i speak only my personal opinion, sometimes O/ours.

"i am the keeper of fragile things and i have kept what is indisolvable."
....the greatest gift.....vulnerability

(in reply to softandshy)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: recourse as a sub/slave matures - 7/16/2005 7:06:44 PM   
sultryvoice


Posts: 368
Joined: 3/31/2004
Status: offline
Thank you all that posted the legalities of such a union. I need to think of this also in becoming someones submissive. I just didn't think that this would be a problem. But, at the age I am now, this is an important factor to consider. I will have to ask this when I am lucky enough for a relationship to come about.

Respectfully,
sultry

(in reply to slavedesires)
Profile   Post #: 16
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Submissive >> recourse as a sub/slave matures Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.078