RE: Is the human species getting smarter?

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Rule -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/11/2007 10:53:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: samboct IQ tests have shown an increase in what the psychologists consider intelligence over the past century, but do you really think they're smart enough to figure out what intelligence is? What those tests measure is a very small part of human intelligence- same with academic skills. Hence I've met professors who were as dumb as a box of rocks, and some guys without a college degree who were plenty sharp. Besides, there doesn't seem to be much of a correlation between brains and money earning ability Quite. Indeed, the increase in IQ over the past century is a strong indication of devolution of intellectual abilities. Many high IQ people are perforce severely handicapped intellectually. A see-saw analogy in some way does apply here: when IQ goes up, perforce the other abilities of the concerned part of the mind go down steeply. Attempts by high IQ people to raise the average IQ of the population and to advance civilization by killing off the low IQ people are in fact extremely stupid and civilization-wise contraproductive.

solitudesmiles -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/11/2007 11:00:50 PM)
hey i took one of them things in highschool and i ws 19 points away from genus, and i can be both quite intellectial and amusing lol, but i also have converstations that most people cant understand and i end up having to explain my point of veiw more often than not, but i've also learned its better to act stupid you get more friends that way lol

Lordandmaster -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/11/2007 11:40:13 PM)
Ah, yes, as everyone knows, when you need to solve a really difficult problem, just ask a dumass. quote: ORIGINAL: Rule Many high IQ people are perforce severely handicapped intellectually. A see-saw analogy in some way does apply here: when IQ goes up, perforce the other abilities of the concerned part of the mind go down steeply.

ChainsandFreedom -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/11/2007 11:41:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: samboct "if the stockbroker and the bushman were both told that six months from now they'll be dumped in the middle of a forest to live for a year, my money is on the stockbroker to survive the ordeal, simply because his life has depended on being able to learn and make use of tools. He could do consultations, research, and get the best minds availible to tell him where and how to hunt, what to eat, and how to survive. The bushman may have survived in a primitive fashion his whole life, but always dependent upon his own society; his fellow hunters for example. " Wow- do I not agree with this one. Try reading "Guns, Germs and Steel" by Jared Diamond if you think that growing up in a primitive culture implies lack of intelligence. Diamond's comment was that the natives of New Guinea were on average, some of the smartest people he'd ever met. Our society doesn't kill off the dumb ones quickly the way a less technologically adept society does. IQ tests have shown an increase in what the psychologists consider intelligence over the past century, but do you really think they're smart enough to figure out what intelligence is? What those tests measure is a very small part of human intelligence- same with academic skills. Hence I've met professors who were as dumb as a box of rocks, and some guys without a college degree who were plenty sharp. Besides, there doesn't seem to be much of a correlation between brains and money earning ability, and money earning ability really gives you more choices in society about who and what you breed with. Sam G,G&Steel was a seminal book, no doubt about it... But don't forget theres a difference between indigenous peoples today and pre-historic cave-men. Also, nobody is calling the cave-men stupid; we're simply saying the stock-broker has greater access to things like Guns Germs and Steel and Survival handbooks at his disposal so he would be better educated at surviving in a hostile enviroment he's not used to-the caveman is meerly very good at living in one particular niche and has little access to information about other niches. I've read studies that back that book up since it was written in the way your talking about: small-community people know the people they interact with daily on a more intimate level and thus have far greater interpersonal skills and intellectual stimulation, for example. Studies talking about the re-incorporation of British Colonial trade goods for new uses/rituals by indigenous peoples, even a study suggesting that the bow's of the Natives around the Chesepeak were far superior to the flint-lock guns of the origional colonizers, and it was only the BOOM of a muzzle that actually gave the settlers a tactical edge, through fear, in close forrest combat.

Rule -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/11/2007 11:51:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Ah, yes, as everyone knows, when you need to solve a really difficult problem, just ask a dumass. No, when the problem has been solved conceptually before you ask a high IQ person (i.e. someone who perforce has severely limited intellectual abilities); when it has not been solved conceptually before you ask a wise person (i.e. someone with a lower IQ but with unlimited intellectual abilities).

pahunkboy -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/12/2007 10:17:08 AM)
some folks think farmers are dumb- well if the matrix goes down a farmer is your best chance of surviving. the grid is alive and well but not bullet proof. i took all the wrong classes in college.

windchymes -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/12/2007 12:50:04 PM)
Well, they couldn't possibly get any dumber. Hopefully.

samboct -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/12/2007 1:27:11 PM)
Oh, I don't know WC- I have great faith in the ability of humans to produce a better idiot. Re the stockbroker-Learning to survive without technology is like dancing. You can read about it all you want, but in a dance contest, my money's on the folks that do it all the time. So in a jazz dance contest- would you bet on the square dancer or the stockbroker? Survival skills are much more about learning what's trying to eat you- how to watch for it- learning what to eat- see what the other animals are eating- finding water- ditto- etc. All of this is available in a survival handbook, and all of it is effectively bloody useless if you haven't done it. I'd put the dumbest member of a tribe up against a stockbroker with an 8 figure income any day of the week. Sam

philosophy -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/12/2007 2:38:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule Many high IQ people are perforce severely handicapped intellectually. A see-saw analogy in some way does apply here: when IQ goes up, perforce the other abilities of the concerned part of the mind go down steeply. .......i'm not sure that human cerebral potential is a zero sum game.....

murmur -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/12/2007 2:40:05 PM)
Smarter? I believe so. Wiser? hmmmmmmmmmm........................

CheekyHalfWit -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/12/2007 7:38:24 PM)
I would have to say Smarter, humans are no long inbreeding quite as much.

ChainsandFreedom -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/13/2007 9:16:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: samboct Oh, I don't know WC- I have great faith in the ability of humans to produce a better idiot. Re the stockbroker-Learning to survive without technology is like dancing. You can read about it all you want, but in a dance contest, my money's on the folks that do it all the time. So in a jazz dance contest- would you bet on the square dancer or the stockbroker? Survival skills are much more about learning what's trying to eat you- how to watch for it- learning what to eat- see what the other animals are eating- finding water- ditto- etc. All of this is available in a survival handbook, and all of it is effectively bloody useless if you haven't done it. I'd put the dumbest member of a tribe up against a stockbroker with an 8 figure income any day of the week. Sam -Why would a caveman from cold, icy europe have ANY idea how to survive in the jungle or the desert? He doesn't. He wouldn't be able to bone up on what might eat him and what berries to avoid. At least the stock-broker has this information at his disposal. Besides, who do you think climbs mount everest, or bow-hunts in the Saharra? Other than a very small group of indeginous people, its people with the money and vacation time to jet-set around the world experiencing hostile enviroments. You're assuming indigenous people have some sort of magical link with the entire planet and how to survive all over it. Living in nature is understanding that there is no easy fix like that and respecting the idividual enviroment you're in. You're assuming modern man never goes out with a backpack for an adventure.

ChainsandFreedom -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/13/2007 9:20:37 AM)
quote: So in a jazz dance contest- would you bet on the square dancer or the stockbroker? -Seeing how in the modern world the square dancer and the stock broker are equally likely to have had exposure and interest in Jazz, I would consider them in the same catagory for this debate. If it were between one of these two and a dancer from a nobel court of a time before improv music and the modern scale, I'd still go with the modern guy.

samboct -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/13/2007 9:21:48 AM)
I thought the original example was a stockbroker and a bushman dumped in the forest? The bushman does use tools and does know how to do research- that's how he's stayed alive. He's used to the tools found in a wild environment, whereas the stockbroker is used to the tools found in our technologically complex environment. My money's still on the bushman. Sam

Rule -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/16/2007 1:56:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy quote: ORIGINAL: Rule Many high IQ people are perforce severely handicapped intellectually. A see-saw analogy in some way does apply here: when IQ goes up, perforce the other abilities of the concerned part of the mind go down steeply. .......i'm not sure that human cerebral potential is a zero sum game..... I am and that suffices for me.

Stephann -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/16/2007 8:34:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: samboct I thought the original example was a stockbroker and a bushman dumped in the forest? The bushman does use tools and does know how to do research- that's how he's stayed alive. He's used to the tools found in a wild environment, whereas the stockbroker is used to the tools found in our technologically complex environment. My money's still on the bushman. Sam Obviously, this wasn't going to be a real contest [;)] Sam, what I don't think you're willing to consider, is the bushman doesn't survive alone. He grows up in an enviroment learning how to avoid being killed by other animals not just from cunning but through the safety in numbers. A group of hunters go out daily; there's a reason that hunting 'solo' was a rite of passage; it's bloody dangerous. Yank the bushman out of his community environment, and you not only deprive him of the support structure he has come to rely upon for that information, but indeed from half the survival skills that he never did learn; the tasks that the women performed. Hand him a book on survival, and the only use he'll have for it might be to feed a fire; the only means he has for learning are observation (a slow and dangerous process in the wild) and emulation of people he trusts. None of this suggests he is not intelligent; it only suggests that his intelligence comes in a very limited fashion. The stock broker, on the other hand, has spent his entire life learning to adapt. His success in his field is literally derived from his capacity to adapt. With a year to prepare, he could drop ten grand into a four week survival course with some of the best minds in wilderness survival, to learn how to survive in the wild (or a years worth of jazz dancing classes from competition winning dancers; something I don't think the square-dancer is likely to have access to either.) The point is that money, in this world, is power. It's the power to acquire new skills as they become necessary; be it dancing with bears, or with leggy blondes. Just because it's distasteful for us common-folk to acknowledge that stockbrokers (and other rich, powerful people) have power doesn't make it any less so. Regards, Stephan

samboct -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/17/2007 8:48:04 AM)
Stephann Hunting solo is bloody dangerous? Nonsense- most of what humans hunt is game like squirrels, birds, fish, or rabbits. Are you suggesting a "killer rabbit"? Even today, fur trappers in Canada still go out solo There aren't many predators out there that have humans on the menu, and the few that do haven't had them as a steady diet for a long time. The dangerous things out there are insects, snakes, and viruses- and my money's on the bushman to be cautious about all of the above- since that's how he's lasted so long. In Africa, the largest mammals to be worried about are Cape Buffalo (because they're used in farming, and occasionally get annoyed) and hippos- who like chomping on boats for the hell of it. Lion attacks are rare. Most hunting these days is solo, because there's a lot more small game than larger game available. You only need to be in a group for bigger game- things like deer, elk, moose, etc. While I agree with you that making money is a very useful survival trait in today's society (and one which I wish I had a bit more of), it's got absolutely nothing to do with surviving in the wilderness. A closer example is a video game player. Take a video game artiste who wracks up lots of points playing "Survirorman" versus someone who actually does it? The person who does something tends to win- a lot. Book learning is a useful predictor for book learning- it's not a damn bit of good of predicting real world success. Sam

philosophy -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/17/2007 9:54:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy quote: ORIGINAL: Rule Many high IQ people are perforce severely handicapped intellectually. A see-saw analogy in some way does apply here: when IQ goes up, perforce the other abilities of the concerned part of the mind go down steeply. .......i'm not sure that human cerebral potential is a zero sum game..... I am and that suffices for me. ..... [:D] ...... thanks...that was one of the funniest things i've heard in ages...but, joking aside, what do you really think.....because you can't possibly believe that piece of twaddle.

Rule -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/17/2007 10:18:54 AM)
I am a low IQ supergenius. I have met some people who have an IQ that is a lot higher than mine, but I have never met anyone who is my intellectual equal nor superior; the few that I did find have been dead for centuries. Merely looking at your nick, I suspect that you are a high IQ sub that has never once had a truly original idea. Am I right, or am I wrong? If I am right, you neatly fit into my model of the various types of human minds. Your perception, or rather the lack of it, proves my point.

philosophy -> RE: Is the human species getting smarter? (9/17/2007 10:38:17 AM)
..and i thought your last reply was funny.... [:D] Have i ever had an original thought? How the hell would you know? i suspect that even if i were to prove you wrong in your long distance diagnosis of my capability you would still cling to your bizare hypothesis, albeit with a few caveats. As for the idea that, because i don't agree with you that proves you correct is arrogant in the extreme.....and seriously mitigates against the idea that you are a supergenius. Real supergeniuses don't treat data as if it were irrelevant...they are capable of admitting when their hypothesis is wrong.

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