RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between Nilla & WIITWD

RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between Nilla & WIITWD (Full Version)

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GhitaAmati -> RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between Nilla & WIITWD (9/13/2007 10:06:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: camille65 Do you feel that a BDSM relationship is different from one that is not BDSM? Different? Well...yea but only cause EVERY relationship is different....two compleatly vanilla relationships are different...two BDSM relationships, two M/s or D/s or Gorean realtionships...they are all different...every relationship is going to have different dynamics, different "trials"...the people in them are going to enjoy different things...whether thats rather vanilla activities like bowling or ice hockey......or a bit more kinky activities like flogging or group orgies, or getting off on ironing someone shirts. Its hard to sometimes remember that the term "bdsm" emcompassed a whole lot of kinks. Just because I feel my relationhship falls under the BDSM header doesnt mean its going to have a whole lot of similarities with others who use the same term. So what is vanilla? People who only have sex on sunday afternoons in the missionary position and then go back to sleeping in seperate twin beds? People who manage to split every decision and every chore exactly 50/50? Every relationship out there has to have some sort of power dynamic! So whats the difference between BDSM and vanilla? To me..the label....we all go through the same issues that every vanilla relationship does...so maybe BDSM isnt "different"..just "more"...like vanilla plus.....ever make a chocolate cake? Ya gotta add some vanilla extract in there with the cocoa..... For me personally...what do I see as the major difference? Without the noticable power dynamic, Im in a relationship more for myself...add D/s into the mix, and its more about someone else.....of course, I could probably be labeled co-dependant for that too...who knows....its the whole label issue. Im me...it just so happens I feel a bit more comfortable hanging out with the rest of you kinky bastards....I hate labels..Im gonna just be me, cause everytime I try to fit myself into someone elses "box"...parts of me dont fit...or theres room for more that someone expects..... Of course...there are a few collarme members whose "box" Id like to get into...but thats for a different thread.....

ocilla -> RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between Nilla & WIITWD (9/13/2007 12:23:23 PM)
To know one in particular - Ya know vanilla is actually quite exotic. It is the seed pod of an orchid. It is hand harvested, sun dried, run through a highly secretive fermenting process and always grown in tropical climes. The majority of it is grown in Madegascar and Tahiti. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanilla I think using the term vanilla to mean main stream and typically tradition relations is just not right. Yeah, that's right I am pouting and whining about it and have been since I first ever learned of the term, but quietly and to myself. In fact, that was my first impression of the BDSM community - I remember thinking to myself at the time, "boy, are they clueless." Well, I feel a little better about it, now, that I've gotten that off my chest.

xoxi -> RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between Nilla & WIITWD (9/13/2007 1:01:49 PM)
Ocilla - That's probably the most interesting thing I've learned all week. I always liked vanilla too - it smells good and tastes good. Especially vanilla soft serve or French vanilla. The word even sounds cool too...definitely far more sonorous than 'kinky'. Hehe then again I also like the way "submissive" sounds, as well as "discipline" and I think "sex" sounds awful as a word. And don't get me started on the absolute awfulness of every single euphemism for the female genitalia (except 'cunt' which sounds cool but also sounds more like a synonym for 'cock' than anything feminine.) Okay wait what was the topic again? [sm=news.gif]

GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between Nilla & WIITWD (9/13/2007 2:01:20 PM)
Working on the K.I.S.S. method...BDSM is the sexual preference. M/s or D/s is the relationship dynamic preference. If a gay couple is out, we (as the general public) are aware already, that their sexual preferences are different from the norm. But we don't really think about it (at least I don't Smile). It is just an obvious given. Incorporating BDSM into the sexual preferences is not as "out". But as to the inner workings of the day to day relationship of that gay couple...I have no idea, and, frankly, it is none of My business. I personally think the D/s or M/s relationship dynamic is the more important. I liked the reference of going into the relationship with the lights on. More awareness of the expectations from the get go. I am not sure any of the rest of it really matters very much.

subsusan44 -> RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between Nilla & WIITWD (9/27/2007 1:03:45 PM)
I agree with the Tigresse. The sub craves having her domme make decisions about most aspects of life, if not all. Sexual obedience and service is only one aspect of the total picture. sue

Pyrrsefanie -> RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between Nilla & WIITWD (9/27/2007 2:09:57 PM)
While I don't think one type of relationship is necessarily better or worse than the other, I have always thought that it takes a greater deal of trust, love, and devotion than is found in a lot of vanilla relationships to make a D/s relationship work. My submission is motivated greatly by those three things. I want to make my Master happy, I want to take care of his every need and desire. A lot of 'nilla women I know wouldn't even consider assuming a submissive role in their relationship. Some of them even border on being selfish. The two types of relationships ARE similar, however, when you get down to the very core of them. Many of the same rules apply: don't cheat, don't lie, be respectful, etc. They even have some of the same problems. Recently there was a thread posted about a sub turning out to be not quite what her Dom/me expected... the same thing happens in vanilla relationships all the time, where somebody seems wonderful at the start and ends up being far from it. Personally, though, one of the biggest differences I've found is the breakup. In the straight-and-narrow relationships I've seen the end of I've maybe sniffled a bit, but gotten over it fairly quickly. When D/s is thrown into the mix it seems like it's more traumatic... probably because I've trusted those people with so much more of me than most people would ever get to see. Part of it may also be shame for LETTING them do these things and see these parts of me. Suddenly the protection that I've gotten so used to living with is gone. What was it that Lumiere sang in Beauty in the Beast during that "Be Our Guest" scene? "Life is so unnerving for a servant who's not serving"? Hehe.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between Nilla & WIITWD (9/27/2007 4:17:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pyrrsefanie While I don't think one type of relationship is necessarily better or worse than the other, I have always thought that it takes a greater deal of trust, love, and devotion than is found in a lot of vanilla relationships to make a D/s relationship work. It's not found in a lot of Ds relationships either. quote: My submission is motivated greatly by those three things. I want to make my Master happy, I want to take care of his every need and desire. A lot of 'nilla women I know wouldn't even consider assuming a submissive role in their relationship. Some of them even border on being selfish. Selfish is a good thing. Why sould nilla women consider assuming a sub role? It's not who they are. Should you consider a vanilla role in a relationship? Are you selfish for not wanting that? quote: Personally, though, one of the biggest differences I've found is the breakup. In the straight-and-narrow relationships I've seen the end of I've maybe sniffled a bit, but gotten over it fairly quickly. When D/s is thrown into the mix it seems like it's more traumatic... probably because I've trusted those people with so much more of me than most people would ever get to see. Part of it may also be shame for LETTING them do these things and see these parts of me. Suddenly the protection that I've gotten so used to living with is gone. That's you- not Ds or vanilla in general.

Pyrrsefanie -> RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between Nilla & WIITWD (9/27/2007 4:41:38 PM)
Whoa... Lucky... I thought I made it pretty clear in my post that it was my personal experience and not everyone. I'm getting some snark vibes from you which I think are completely unwarranted, I was just trying to share my point of view, not trying to start a war here or say that "my word is law blah blah blah." As for Vanilla women being selfish or not assuming a "sub role," that's completely not what I meant. I mean the women who throw fits when their SO doesn't buy them diamonds, or complain when they're asked to do even the teeny-tiniest thing... I know there are people in D/s like that, too, but I seem to see it in 'nilla relationships all the time. I've seen guys do it to girls, too.

amiciaN -> RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between Nilla & WIITWD (9/27/2007 4:58:34 PM)
(using fast reply) There is one huge, big, difference between the vanilla long-term relationships I've had in the past and my relationship with NChaka. That difference is intent. My vanilla relationships simply more or less 'happened'. We met, liked each other, hung out and poof!, I was in a 'relationship'. With Master, it has been much more deliberate. I was looking for something much more specific to begin with, not in terms of kink, but traits and qualities I knew I needed from a potential partner; I was looking with much more intent from the very beginning. We have also carefully considered how the relationship should function, who is going to do what, etc., so there again, it is being built with intent, rather than expecting it to simply fall into place the way I did in my vanilla relationships. Now I well realize that a vanilla relationship can be built exactly the same way. However, the examples I have seen in others and experienced for myself show me that it is not how 'vanilla' typically happens. (Flame retardent duly applied to the preceeding and following statements.) Most people have some experience with vanilla-type relationships before entering one that incorporates one or more elements of b/d, D/s, or s/m. Once they begin exploring wiitwd, they are bombarded with various ways to 'build a relationship', but that element of intent is clear in most of them. A good relationship of any bent is *built* with the *intent* of fulfilling the needs, wants and desires of the people involved. The 'lifestyle' simply stresses it more, due to the nature of wiitwd. Vanillas can certainly do the same thing and end up with a relationship just as awesomely suited to them as my relationship with NChaka is to me. They just usually don't. So to boil all that rambling down into a nutshell: For me, the biggest difference between nilla and wiitwd is that our relationships tend to be built with intent. Again, this is all strictly my opinion, based on my experiences and normal non-scientific observations. ymmv.

Aswad -> RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between Nilla & WIITWD (9/27/2007 6:00:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GhitaAmati I'm me...it just so happens I feel a bit more comfortable hanging out with the rest of you kinky bastards....I hate labels... Excellent angle. I mentioned something about that on the Gorean boards. The social / community side of things comes down to varying degrees of kinship in terms of people's idiosyncrasies. Some people who do not identify as one are more comfortable hanging with that crowd. That's probably essentially the same for the BDSM crowd, which is somewhat larger due to encompassing a smaller aspect of life in a more diverse way. quote: Im gonna just be me, cause everytime I try to fit myself into someone elses "box"...parts of me dont fit...or theres room for more that someone expects..... Ever read the tale of Procrustes? [:D] Health, al-Aswad.

Aswad -> RE: Delving into the Depths or The Difference Between Nilla & WIITWD (9/27/2007 7:07:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xoxi Hehe then again I also like the way "submissive" sounds, as well as "discipline" and I think "sex" sounds awful as a word. Mmm... a fellow phonophile? [:D] quote: And don't get me started on the absolute awfulness of every single euphemism for the female genitalia (except 'cunt' which sounds cool but also sounds more like a synonym for 'cock' than anything feminine.) What would you propose as an improved euphemism? In order to come up with a good slang, there needs to be a sense of what to convey. A "cunt" has an uncertain etymology. A "cock" is male, and struts with pride. Effectively, it has to remain monosyllabic. By all means, do come up with something better. Women aren't the only ones who'd like something less clinical than "vagina" but with a better connotation than the ones that are out there, you know. We talk about them as much as you do, if not more. Having one that had a connotation that is as positive and appropriate as "cock" would be just lovely. For what it's worth, I agree that the *sound* of "cunt" is good. Health, al-Aswad.

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