A Question For the Subs

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SoulOfIron2007 -> A Question For the Subs (9/10/2007 6:26:12 PM)
Hey, I have seen a lot of different opinions on this one in various discussions I have had with friends in the lifestyle, and thought I would open this question to public discussion. I'd really like to hear people's opinions on this one. When you meet someone either here on Collarme or in the context of an RL BDSM event, do you like to be treated as a submissive right from the beginning, or do you prefer to talk like two people who had met in another context before exploring elements of your respective approaches to BDSM? I've gotten a lot of different responses to this in private conversations, but what I would really like to do is see if I can establish some patterns of thought among submissives on this topic (I'm not just a participant in BDSM, I am a scholar at heart who likes doing research.) Let me know what you think, and feel free to be as concise or verbose as you like regarding your reasons for feeling the way you do. Thanks in advance for your input. grins

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: A Question For the Subs (9/10/2007 6:44:31 PM)
Explain "treat me like a submissive"? I dislike people who presume that my orientation should somehow mean something about my behavior or social status. However, novices tend to love it and find it seductive and dashing and all that great stuff- until the guy "goes too far" and suddenly it's not so great.

addisonclarkgirl -> RE: A Question For the Subs (9/10/2007 6:48:56 PM)
i like to know that the man is in charge, and has a dominant personality right from the start. i don't necessarily want him to be in charge of me, however. i think i need time before i can actually submit to a person; to know that i can trust them with that resposibility. However, if i can't detect any sort of dominance in his character, then i get used to not having it there, and if the relationship continues, it is very hard for me to see him as the person who i'm giving my submission to.

SoulOfIron2007 -> RE: A Question For the Subs (9/10/2007 6:51:35 PM)
I meant by that, approach you with an air of casual command and authority that a lot of Doms seem to use when talking to a submissive. I was curious about this topic because of a conversation I had with a friend who I knew was a submissive, but went for a long time having no idea that I was a dominant male. When the topic of our orientations happened to come up one day, she was shocked, and when I asked her why, she said that it was because she had noticed my interest in her, but I had never just approached her that way. I asked her what she meant, and the discussion she and I had led to the formation of this topic.

julietsierra -> RE: A Question For the Subs (9/10/2007 6:51:56 PM)
To me, it's all a matter of degrees. If I were to say I wanted to be treated like a submissive the first time I met someone, one person might be a complete waste of time for me and the other person might be, like goldilocks, jusssst right. Mostly what I want is for someone I'm meeting for the first time to simply be himself - whatever that means for him. I'll make my decisions accordingly. If someone has to consciously "act" in one fashion or another, then I presume that most of what he's doing at any time is "acting" and I want no part of someone's attempt at winning an Oscar. I don't believe dominance is something "put on" any more than I believe submission is something "put on." A person is either dominant or he isn't. A person is either submissive or he/she isn't. And switches have the same components. No matter what title we give anyone, they are still exactly who they are and that's the person I want to see the first time I meet them. Anything less is an insult to someone trying to get to know the person they're meeting. juliet

BRNaughtyAngel -> RE: A Question For the Subs (9/10/2007 6:56:57 PM)
My preference is for everyone to just be themselves and to treat each other politely. At the BDSM functions I attend, how a person identifies is not always obvious, and even if it were, it's considered poor etiquette to "treat" someone as a submissive when they don't belong to you. Most submissives aren't submissive to anyone and everyone, but rather to the one(s) they choose to serve...., so unless they have consented to submit to you, it would be presumptuous and rude to try and exert dominance over them, even casually. If it's a planned meeting, how personal things get can depend greatly on how well you've gotten to know the person online and via the telephone before you meet in person.

SoulOfIron2007 -> RE: A Question For the Subs (9/10/2007 6:58:43 PM)
Wow, all really good points. And thank you all for being so specific in your answers... The level of detail really helps. Keep the responses coming, and please, feel free to comment on eachother's responses here, too. I'm really trying to foster intelligent discourse on this subject, and you are all providing wonderful primer material.

Thorns82 -> RE: A Question For the Subs (9/10/2007 7:10:27 PM)
quote: However, novices tend to love it and find it seductive and dashing and all that great stuff- until the guy "goes too far" and suddenly it's not so great. I can't speak for all submissives, but I do consider myself a novice, and I would be put off by anyone who 'treated me like a submissive' (I assume you mean ordering me around) without prior consent by either my Master or me. There's a story in a book I just read about this...at the end of a BDSM function a Dom waves a sub over and commands her to put his chair away from him. When she just stares at him he explaines that he is dominant. She simply laughed and walked away.

sexyred1 -> RE: A Question For the Subs (9/10/2007 7:18:36 PM)
I like to be treated with respect, no matter who I meet, or what orientation I am or they are. Nothing else would work.

SoulOfIron2007 -> RE: A Question For the Subs (9/10/2007 7:25:43 PM)
Okay, so I am seeing a lot of answers to My question (and thank all of you who have posted, please, wave your friends over, I want as many replies as I can get), but they all seem to fall into the same general category, so I'd like to refine my initial premise a little further. Most of you seem to agree that just because a dominant is a dominant and you are a sub doesn't grant them any special privileges from the outset. But you also seem to be saying that they should not hide who they are, either (reference some of the earlier comments). That being the case, what are the things that tell you that A) this person is a dominant, but B) they also have the good sense to treat me respectfully. Where does that line lie, and how do you, personally, judge that someone has crossed it? Again, thank you all for the active posting, it really helps to get a sense for what people think on this topic. It's been intriguing me ever since I first started thinking about it, and the input of others always helps me to think more clearly. ~grins~

ownedgirlie -> RE: A Question For the Subs (9/10/2007 7:26:14 PM)
In my very first conversation with him (which was online), there was no question as to who was dominant and who was submissive. He was who he was. I was who I was. Neither of us played a part; we were ourselves. I felt his power, and continued talking to him. It wasn't long at all before my behavior began reflecting my submissiveness to him.

akisha -> RE: A Question For the Subs (9/10/2007 7:30:43 PM)
I want to be treated with respect and talked to as a thinking person. someone starts trying to "Dom" me and they know nothing about me will most likely get a scathing remark and me walking away. Just because i'm submissive does not mean I'm thier submissive or that there is any likelihood that i will submit to them in this lifetime. Especially if they pull the " I'm superior, bow to me" crap. I believe when you meet someone for the first time, whether it is BDSM orientated, bar orientated or church group orientated, you should talk to an idividual as an individual. Using the respect and manners you were raised to use. Wouldn't it be funny of the "girl" you got all domineering with at the event on Saturday, turned out to be the person interviewing you on Monday? You never know when someone is going to pop up in your life again in a different role, so be wary how you treat people initially.

SoulOfIron2007 -> RE: A Question For the Subs (9/10/2007 7:35:44 PM)
LOL, akisha... That's a really telling point. I always try to be respectful of people, and in general, I get good reactions for it... But I started thinking on this topic originally, as I said, because of my friend Talith's comments during the talk when she found out I was a member of the BDSM lifestyle too. Some people seem to recognize that side of a person instinctively, and others seem to have to be shown it, in one fashion or another (whatever way you choose to show it to them, and whatever their eventual response to the revelation). What is it that makes it obvious, or not, without a dominant being stupid and pushy (and yes, I really DID just use those words, LOL).

arayofsunshine55 -> RE: A Question For the Subs (9/10/2007 7:42:05 PM)
I've been involved with this guy for 3 years and he has always treated me as a person, not a label . And that is what I expect. Subtlety goes a long way in my book.

Drifa -> RE: A Question For the Subs (9/10/2007 7:49:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SoulOfIron2007 When you meet someone either here on Collarme or in the context of an RL BDSM event, do you like to be treated as a submissive right from the beginning, or do you prefer to talk like two people who had met in another context before exploring elements of your respective approaches to BDSM? I've had a couple of emails sent to me in which the (inevitably male) dominant starts right off very heavy-handedly talking to me as if I was his servant, or pet, or sub. I am not. I am a strong, intelligent, talented lady, who is in a long-term relationship with my Lady. I expect to be treated with respect and politeness, as I hope I treat others. My Lady may treat me as her submissive, for I have given her my submission; but she still treats me with politeness and respect. Such overfamiliarity and condescension is not welcome from others. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm interested in discussing things on an intellectual level no matter if the person is dominant, submissive, switch, male, female, trans, what-have-you. But I really, really don't like people coming onto me, or worse, condescending to me, from the start. Doubly so when their words prove they haven't bothered to actually read ANY of my profile. I have only very rarely had a person take this sort of inappropriate "I am your master" attitude with me in person. But, thinking of one memorable occasion, don't pat me on the head and expect to get your hand back with all the fingers still on. I'm not wild about people invading my personal space unless asked anyway - I am not a "huggy" person with strangers. ...do you prefer to talk like two people who had met in another context before exploring elements of your respective approaches to BDSM? Not necessarily. Someone who has read my posts here and has a specific question about something I've said is welcome to jump right in... we can assume that we have a shared interest in BDSM stuff by virtue of the environment! But I mean "jump in" as an intellectual sort of discussion, rather than in a "trolling for wanking material" kind of way. I like sex, and I like kinky sex, and it's always interesting to learn more about what others think and do... sometimes an idea strikes sparks and I share the ideas with my Lady. But my submission goes on the vast majority of the time we're NOT having sex or spankings or whatever... life would be horribly boring if sex was ALL there was! It's the sweet cherry on the sundae, not the meat and potatoes of my life.

SoulOfIron2007 -> RE: A Question For the Subs (9/10/2007 7:54:28 PM)
Ah, the art of subtlety! Good point, and thank you for bringing it up. Wow, you guys are giving me as many new questions as you are answering old ones... thank you for replying so openly on this thread, it's wonderful reading what everyone has to say. So, new questions based on that last response (and thank you, Sunshine). IS it possible, at all, to incorporate the attitudes and behaviors that you associate with your kink-oriented self with every-day behavior towards others in such a way that they feel like they are being treated as a respected individual, and at the same time, can have an opportunity to feel that part of yourself out? Should it be put forward openly, or reserved for discussion only if the other person asks you about it? What do you think, everyone? grins

SoulOfIron2007 -> RE: A Question For the Subs (9/10/2007 7:58:26 PM)
Wow, Drifa, thanks for your input, and making me think and laugh at the same time. grins A lot of really good points. By the way, I see a lot of people reading the topic who haven't jumped in yet. Don't be shy, people! The discussion is open to anyone, and I'm really enjoying reading all your replies; it's a great way to learn. I'm pretty experienced in the BDSM lifestyle (at least, the specific ways in which I practice it), but I'm always eager to learn more from others, so keep sharing your thoughts, it's really appreciated.

iammachine -> RE: A Question For the Subs (9/10/2007 8:15:22 PM)
I like being treated like a regular human being. Screw my role, I'm a person first.

bamabbwsub -> RE: A Question For the Subs (9/10/2007 8:17:19 PM)
quote: When you meet someone either here on Collarme or in the context of an RL BDSM event, do you like to be treated as a submissive right from the beginning, or do you prefer to talk like two people who had met in another context before exploring elements of your respective approaches to BDSM? Because I'm pursuing a D/s relationship, I wouldn't want to talk like two people who had met in a non-D/s context. In a vanilla relationship, I might expect to be treated with more deference than I could and should expect from a Dom; therefore, it's important to me to establish our roles clearly from the very beginning. This means that he is assertive and confident, yet he knows that just because I am a sub, he doesn't automatically get to order me around. It's imperative that he knows that my submission is earned and is not just given to any man who dubs himself a Dom or Master. If I don't feel respect for a Dom, based on his behavior as such, then the relationship is doomed. I'm the type of person who needs a firm (but not cruel) hand; otherwise, I would walk all over him if he shows the slightest weakness. I am a sub, true. But I am first and foremost a human, and secondly, a woman. :) As many have already mentioned, respect, courtesy, and honesty are requirements that shouldn't be overlooked, regardless of one's D/s role.

bamabbwsub -> RE: A Question For the Subs (9/10/2007 8:19:35 PM)
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