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RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/13/2007 8:15:48 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
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Status: offline 		What a bullshit artist!  "My interpretation of the rule was incorrect"???

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RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/13/2007 8:18:32 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Status: offline 		I don't get it.  If videotaping the defensive signals offers such a marginal advantage, why on earth did they risk the penalty they incurred?  THEY must have thought it was giving them an advantage.  You don't take a risk like that unless you calculate a reward.

Edited to add: The other thing I don't understand is that the opinion of players who have been interviewed about this is unanimous: it gave the Patriots a substantial and unfair advantage.  That includes FORMER players and current analysts, like Mark Schlereth.  If every player I've ever heard agrees that it gives the other team a substantial advantage, how exactly do armchair strategists on Collarme think they know better?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SmokingGun82

Knowing the signals might give you a slight edge, if you're smart enough to analyze them and adjust. There are degrees of cheating, just like anything else.


< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 9/13/2007 8:21:13 PM >

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RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/13/2007 8:23:05 PM   
SmokingGun82


Posts: 575
Joined: 6/19/2004
Status: offline 		I could be flippant, but to be honest, my guess is they didn't think the punishment would be this severe. Really, it's been fascinating to watch the ball roll on this one- Monday, every sportswriter I read seemed to think they'd lose a third round pick, maybe a second round pick. Just the pick.

By today, everyone seemed to think it'd be multiple picks and a suspension.

Then it ended up being a first round pick, cash, and possibly two picks, if this team misses the playoffs.

If you could get ANY advantage in a game, it's worth one day two draft pick. But that same advantage might not be worth a first round pick. Even though they have SF's first rounder, which figures to be much better than the pick they lose, anyway.

That's just my opinion, though.


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RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/13/2007 8:27:58 PM   
SmokingGun82


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster


I guess this means they're just going to have to install radios in defensive play-callers' helmets, as they do with QB's.


That was brought up this year in the owner's meetings. It was voted down, needing two more votes to pass.

If I'm not mistaken, the Jets voted against the change. It doesn't justify what happened, but it does bring a little smile to my face.

(Edited to add- the Pats voted against the change too. Proof that this has been a long-running practice?)


< Message edited by SmokingGun82 -- 9/13/2007 8:30:26 PM >

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RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/13/2007 9:20:02 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		Forget it's the Patriots, and they win a lot. Lets just talk about this as an offending team.
 
This punishment isn't harsh enough. The draft pick means nothing. All it will do is free up money to sign a free agent.
 
You have two players on suspension right now, that have been convicted of no actual crime. One of these players, won't even be charged with one.
 
A college that is caught cheating, gets the death penalty. If I was the commissioner, I would suspended the offending coach until further notice, like the players that were suspended (for instance, until such time as he actually owns up to the offense, which should sound familier), and forced the offending team to play about twenty-million under the cap for the next five years.
 
As it is, the commissioner showed that he is nothing but a yes man for the owners, and only interested in cracking down on player misconduct.

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RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/14/2007 7:02:35 AM   
greyarcher315


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Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline 		i am no fan of the Patriots, but this whole thing makes feel bad for the New England players. There is a very good team up there, and the players still have to preform, even if the coaches have inside info on what the other team is going to do.  Now there will always be some doubt about just how good the team really was. Sad.

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RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/14/2007 7:38:10 AM   
instynctive


Posts: 2726
Status: offline 		I'm sure the video really helped that 108 yard kick-off return... and taping the DEFENSIVE signals helped with the 5 sacks and keeping the Jet to what.. 60 yards on the ground?  Oh.. and assuredly, that tape make Cassel drop the snap on the 43 yard FG attempt.  And what was up with Mangina opting to punt on a 4th and 1 at the Pat's 46 yard line?  There's showing a TON of confidence in your offense right there.

Yup.  Cheating won that game.






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RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/14/2007 11:23:57 AM   
SmokingGun82


Posts: 575
Joined: 6/19/2004
Status: offline 		The commish was wrong in his treatment of players, too. That doesn't mean he should go apeshit on coaches too, it means he should tone down the suspensions of players.

And yeah, I'd feel that this punishment was unfair even if it'd been given to the Cowboys.

If you knew me, you'd know how big that is. :)


_____________________________

It frightens me, the awful truth of how sweet life can be.
- Bob Dylan

Proper capitalization is the difference between "I had to help my Uncle Jack off a horse" and "I had to help my uncle jack off a horse."

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/14/2007 12:09:23 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		Just a quick reply to all the whiners who seem to feel that cheating is somehow not that big a deal.
If it is no big deal then why have rules at all? Why have refs.  Lets start telling our kids that cheating is how life is and the sooner you learn how to do it the better off you are going to be. 
If the rest of the league had the balls that god gave a girl scout they would all refuse to play with them then they could play the super bowel against themselves and put that in the record book.
thompson

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 9/14/2007 12:14:05 PM >

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RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/14/2007 12:38:04 PM   
instynctive


Posts: 2726
Status: offline 		Oh yeah, that makes sense.

Bear in mind oh overreactive one that the camera was taken away when..?  The camera was seized before the end of the first quarter and had no impact on the game.  

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RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/14/2007 12:53:52 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: instynctive

Oh yeah, that makes sense.

Bear in mind oh overreactive one that the camera was taken away when..?  The camera was seized before the end of the first quarter and had no impact on the game.  

instynctive:
This is exactly my point.  You seem to be saying that if you cheat it is OK if you did not benefit by it. My point is that cheating is wrong weather you benefit from it or not.
Would you continue to do business with a bank or any other business that tried to cheat you  but were unsuccessful for what ever reason.  Or would you consider them to be unethical and take your business elsewhere.
If your wife or girlfriend was sucking the mailman's cock when you walked in would it be OK since he had not actually come yet?
thompson

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/14/2007 1:30:32 PM   
instynctive


Posts: 2726
Status: offline 		I'm not saying cheating is right or wrong... I'm just saying you are completely over-reacting as are others, that's all.  You took it upon yourself to put words in My mouth, then decided to further pursue that by escalating it to banks or businesses and My g/f sucking off the mailman.  Sorry.. but you simply aren't going to get a fight from me on this.

The Patriots didn't do anything that everyone else has been doing.. they just got caught, that's all.  Is it right?  Probably not.  Is it a fair rule?  Probably not.  Is it any of My concern or business how the NFL decides this stuff?  Not really. 

Bring back the parabolic dish microphones!


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RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/14/2007 1:45:56 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: instynctive

I'm not saying cheating is right or wrong... I'm just saying you are completely over-reacting as are others, that's all.  You took it upon yourself to put words in My mouth, then decided to further pursue that by escalating it to banks or businesses and My g/f sucking off the mailman.  Sorry.. but you simply aren't going to get a fight from me on this.

The Patriots didn't do anything that everyone else has been doing.. they just got caught, that's all.  Is it right?  Probably not.  Is it a fair rule?  Probably not.  Is it any of My concern or business how the NFL decides this stuff?  Not really. 

Bring back the parabolic dish microphones!



instynctive:
I did not put any words in your mouth.
If my using your girlfriend in my analogy offended you I do apologize for it was not my intention to offer insult.
Now to the crux of the post.
Do you feel that cheating is wrong? Or do you feel that winning is all that is important and if you do not get caught cheating then...no problem?
thompson

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/14/2007 1:53:56 PM   
instynctive


Posts: 2726
Status: offline 		I think it sucks they got caught, but hope it has set a precedent that when other teams get caught cheating their penalties are comparable.

The OP isn't about cheating: right or wrong.. it's about the fact the Pats got caught. 

Now leave it alone.


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RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/14/2007 2:48:36 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		What exactly are you trying to say?  They cheated.  They knew it was cheating.  They've cheated before, and they've been warned about it.  In fact, they've nearly gotten caught before.  And this time they got caught beyond any doubt whatsoever.  So what is the league supposed to do?  They HAD to be punished.

Also, if what they did really was not that big of a deal, then I don't understand why they did it at all.  If I can win a boxing match without putting a foreign substance on my gloves, I'm sure as hell not going to put a foreign substance on my gloves.  The problem with cheaters is that they always want you to believe they could have won without cheating anyway.  (Barry Bonds and his press bullshit is exactly the same way.)  Well, if that's really true, why on earth did they have to cheat in the first place?  Only people who aren't sure they're going to win ever think of cheating.

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RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/14/2007 3:18:59 PM   
instynctive


Posts: 2726
Status: offline 		Jeez.. you need to just get over it too.. everyone else has.




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RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/14/2007 4:15:52 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: instynctive

I think it sucks they got caught,
This is a pretty clear statement that you are in favor of cheating but not in favor of getting caught.
Thank you for your candor.

but hope it has set a precedent that when other teams get caught cheating their penalties are comparable.

The OP isn't about cheating: right or wrong.. it's about the fact the Pats got caught.
Wrong...it is about the fact that cheating is wrong and the Pats got caught.  If cheating was not wrong then the Pats getting caught would be a non issue.
 

Now leave it alone.
By what authority do you seek to order me to do anything.  I might be open to suggestions from most anyone but I only take orders from Mod. 11.


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RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/14/2007 5:48:16 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Hardly.  Talked to any NFL players lately?

Didn't think so.

quote:

ORIGINAL: instynctive

Jeez.. you need to just get over it too.. everyone else has.

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/14/2007 6:56:23 PM   
instynctive


Posts: 2726
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
This is a pretty clear statement that you are in favor of cheating but not in favor of getting caught.
Thank you for your candor.

Wrong...it is about the fact that cheating is wrong and the Pats got caught.  If cheating was not wrong then the Pats getting caught would be a non issue.
 
By what authority do you seek to order me to do anything.  I might be open to suggestions from most anyone but I only take orders from Mod. 11.




Wow.. someone woke up on the wrong side of the rock this morning.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
Hardly.  Talked to any NFL players lately?

Didn't think so.


Oddly enough, no... however, I was on the phone today with a member of the Kraft family regarding a project My company is working on for them.


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RE: New England Patriots.....cheaters? - 9/14/2007 8:49:56 PM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: instynctive

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
This is a pretty clear statement that you are in favor of cheating but not in favor of getting caught.
Thank you for your candor.

Wrong...it is about the fact that cheating is wrong and the Pats got caught.  If cheating was not wrong then the Pats getting caught would be a non issue.
 
By what authority do you seek to order me to do anything.  I might be open to suggestions from most anyone but I only take orders from Mod. 11.




Wow.. someone woke up on the wrong side of the rock this morning.


instynctive:
I live in an appliance box and not under a rock...thank you.
thompson

(in reply to instynctive)
Profile   Post #: 60
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