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RE: Sharing slaves - 7/17/2005 9:58:37 AM   
kisshou


Posts: 2425
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin


I don't think that it was junkyard's intention to be condescending toward youth.



quote:

ORIGINAL: junkyard


I am really not trying to pick fights with you EmeraldSlave2, really and truly...

But c'mon - you are 25-27 years old. You dispense youthful opinions AS IF they were wisdom, which is probably something I was guilty of when I was 25 too. But time, the only real teacher and the only real way to gain wisdom, tells me you don't know as much as you think you know.



time ≠ experience


(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Sharing slaves - 7/17/2005 10:07:11 AM   
junkyard


Posts: 107
Joined: 3/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kisshou
time ≠ experience


Think about it, that statement has to be false. Did you mean to say that time/age doesn't equal wisdom? I could agree with that statement on a case by case basis.


(in reply to kisshou)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Sharing slaves - 7/17/2005 10:24:08 AM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: junkyard
Seriously, on average, don't poly relationships tend not to work out except for the short-term? I'm just asking your general opinion, honestly. And I do mean in direct comparison to all other relationships you know about. It's anecdotal information, but still also worth something.



The way it looks from my experience, one individaul has about the same chance of ending a realtionship with another individual as does a monogamous relationship, hoewve, in a 3-person group, that's still a higher rate than a 2-person one. If that makes any sense at all.

THat is, in a group of four people, any given person has the same chance of developing a dislike of/disinterest in one of the other memebers as in a monogamous relationship, however with four people invovled, it looks as though there are many more ended relationships, when in fact the end rate is the same as it would be in monogamy, just multiplied by parties invovled.

quote:

Nothing is impossible, but you blithely ignore the core question of whether quantity time spent with someone also equates to quality time spent with that person. If you only spend 1 night a week with someone, I have my very serious doubts that you can easily experience the kind of intimacy I can attain with someone spending nearly every night with them - and it quickly adds up, the relationship grows deep and takes root. In two months I can cover the territory with someone that in a once a week situation might take over a year.


The relationships I'm talking about don't deal with one night a week. They're committed, live-together or live-very-near relationships. Again, this isn't a relationship with outside flings. It's a committed relationship of multiple parties. While they may not spend the -same- amount of time with every party, every time, they either live together or spend significant amounts of time together as a group. Sure, there are primary and secondary relationships. Doesn't mean the primaries monopolize the situation. THose were simply the relationships that were in place first.

I'm not sure where the idea that polyamourous relationships often invovle limited contact between some parties came from. That's not the type of realtionship I'm address, myself. (though I have an aquaintence in one that is working quite nicely.) I've been trying to assert that the "primary relationship with outside flings" isn't the only model for poly relationships, and there are many, some of which are more likely to suceed just as some mono relationships are more likely to succeed.

I still believe, though, that as with ANY relationship, it depends SOLELY on the peopel invovled. Yes, I -do- think you can develop an incredible depth of trust and understanding with someone you see once a week or once a month. I have seen occations where this trust and understanding is -deeper- because of the cirucumstances invovled.

I don't like generalizations. I think that they are very largely useless and tend to simplify issues so far down that they are unrecognizable.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to junkyard)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Sharing slaves - 7/17/2005 10:53:01 AM   
ScooterTrash


Posts: 1407
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

I am no longer poly. I have given it a go several times and I find that it tends not to work - routine jealousies and constant renegotiations make any real control over what is happening very nearly impossible.
I understand what you are saying Junkyard, but I also have to note that it does not work for YOU, it is not the dynamic that is broken, it is just not something that works for you personally.
quote:

But then, many polyamorous relationships don't actually have a completely open end to them or not for all participants, many poly unions are a closed circle in whole or in part.
Which is our case, which does eliminate many of the pitfalls you cite..myself I think this is better, to others, it may not suit them.
quote:

One other point well worth mentioning is that rather than a simple negotiation between only two parties as in a monogamous relationship, one must continually negotiate ideas amongst several parties.
I don't know if this is untrue because of our particular situation, or if it is simply untrue, but there is no constant negotiation at all. When it all boils down, I or my co-Dominant will have the final say, no negotiation to it.
quote:

Like a prolonged game of musical chairs, the main point to polyamorous unions seems almost to be who is going to get caught out without a chair to sit in.
Key here, provide seating for all...lol. If this is something that happens, someone needs to be fixing the problem.
quote:

"Anybody can feel jealousy, under the right circumstances. Being polyamorous does not make you immune to jealousy at all; poly folk are just as prone to it as those in traditional relationships.
With all due respect, sorry bro, I honestly feel you are full of it here (perhaps because you are younger...lol). Poly folk in my estimation are not as prone to jealousy, it is not in their nature. I would have to say if they are, then they are either not really poly, or at the very least, not ready for it. I know you are basing your assumptions on your own experiences, but do not try to impose that on others..it is simply being biased.

I guess in a way I agree with many things you are saying, then again I don't agree with many key points. As much I as seldom agree with Emerald and equally don't agree with her concept of poly, by the same token I don't try to classify her statements as all encompassing, they are simply her thoughts given from her particular experiences. Sure, concepts change over time as wisdom comes from experience, both BDSM and life experiences in general, but I attempt to take all viewpoints into account and perhaps extract some tidbit of information from it. I can see there is some bitterness and disbelief in the entire poly concept, because either it failed for you or you have failed at it, but that means it won't work for you, not that the concept is flawed. I offer some food for thought, did it fail because of the dynamic, or fail because you didn't take control and make it work? Yes, it's work, yes, initially there are compromises, no, it's not all about sex and different partners. I like having my feet rubbed, something my wife and co-Dominant is simply not going to do (the yuk factor..lol), these simple pleasures can and are taken care of only because we are poly. Many questions and hurdles need to be answered and addressed when crossing that line from mono to poly, some people are capable of it, some are not. Also the particular mix of personalities plays an important part in it. You will see those on the boards who have made it work and yes you will see failures as well as successes. It happens, life is not simple no matter what choices you make. We have had failures as well, not all submissives would survive in our household, but this is no different than the exact same issues you would face in a vanilla and monogamous relationship. I could use similar arguments to explain why monogamous relationships simply won't work, after all, I have had some failures in that area as well, as you likely have. If we decide to throw out every dynamic simply because it didn't work for us, we would all die rather lonely...don't you agree?


_____________________________

Formal symbolic representation of qualitative entities is doomed to its rightful place of minor significance in a world where flowers and beautiful women abound.
-Albert Einstein

(in reply to junkyard)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Sharing slaves - 7/17/2005 11:06:09 AM   
ScooterTrash


Posts: 1407
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		In response to the OPs question; No, I don't have an issue with a sub/slave interacting with another Dominant in a scene, although for some obvious safety issues and protection of my property, I would limit this to scening with no sexual contact involved. I would have to see some benefit to doing so however, not simply because the sub/slave wanted to scene with that particular Dominant. I don't believe it's an issue of caring or not caring, it's just an option that is there. Hell, I may want to allow it just so I can see a particular technique that Dom/me uses and I can control the scene somewhat since I am providing one of the props. I wouldn't however do this without speaking to the sub/slave and getting their feeling on it, even if I feel I have the right to do as I wish. Others will not disuss it with their sub/slaves and that's just their style, not a wrong or right to it.

_____________________________

Formal symbolic representation of qualitative entities is doomed to its rightful place of minor significance in a world where flowers and beautiful women abound.
-Albert Einstein

(in reply to fastlane)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Sharing slaves - 7/17/2005 2:31:59 PM   
JerryInTampa


Posts: 138
Joined: 2/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I'm rather greedy with mine, but see other doms continually share their subs with their peers. Maybe I'm too Alpha Male? How many of you enjoy watching your slave get off by other Doms? Am I missing something or am I just too attached to my slave to want to share?
The *idea* carries tremendous appeal. The reality is that I tend to horde my toys. You are not alone in not wanting to share outside your relationship.

(in reply to fastlane)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Sharing slaves - 7/18/2005 12:30:42 PM   
junkyard


Posts: 107
Joined: 3/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash
quote:

"Anybody can feel jealousy, under the right circumstances. Being polyamorous does not make you immune to jealousy at all; poly folk are just as prone to it as those in traditional relationships.
With all due respect, sorry bro, I honestly feel you are full of it here (perhaps because you are younger...lol). Poly folk in my estimation are not as prone to jealousy, it is not in their nature. I would have to say if they are, then they are either not really poly, or at the very least, not ready for it. I know you are basing your assumptions on your own experiences, but do not try to impose that on others..it is simply being biased.


Interestingly, I was myself quoting a primary pro-poly source, so your real beef is with that source and not with me. However, I do agree with the statement quoted.

Your own statement "Poly folk in my estimation are not as prone to jealousy, it is not in their nature." seems just as unlikely to me (:cough: bullshit :cough:), and is basically untenable based on my own experience and what I have seen happen to others. There's another thread in this forum right now about another poly "crash and burn" so I know jealousy is a very real issue for poly unions. Of course, your own personal experiences may vary...but that's the difference between the exception and the rule.

I am beginning to think that if poly works for one, one may have a tendency to think it's a first rate lifestyle choice and ignore information that runs against that opinion; likewise, if poly doesn't work for one, one is more likely to have a negative opinion of the lifestyle and to pick up on evidence in keeping with that view also.

It's a real pity that there isn't more solid information either way. I think we just have disagreeing viewpoints.

In your case, I think it's interesting that you overcome certain kinds of obstacles based on the power structure of the relationship. I have tried something similar myself, but at some point the weeping from the other room is just too tedious a side-effect to bear. I'd rather do without someone than to have that person in ongoing stages of despair.

A poly old-timer once told me that poly worked best for those with very thick skins. For myself, I am not claiming the status of a thick skin, I am claiming the status of being compassionate.



(in reply to ScooterTrash)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Sharing slaves - 7/18/2005 1:04:52 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I will just say that I will take the advice in the spirit it was given and suggest we simply accept that we understand where the other person stands as of now and deal with that from hereon.

When things change, we will deal with them as they occur.

(in reply to junkyard)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Sharing slaves - 7/18/2005 6:46:03 PM   
fastlane


Posts: 2159
Joined: 5/26/2005
Status: offline 		This debate went on much longer than I would have imagined it to go. Obviously, there are strong feelings and emotions on both sides of the coin...heads and tails....Tops and bottoms.
Thank you all, for clarifying the point that I see, which is, there is no correct answer. Like the lifestyle that we have chosen....."To each his/her own."


Peace, :Master Kevin

_____________________________

Just because it hurts, doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Sharing slaves - 7/19/2005 10:33:42 AM   
JerryInTampa


Posts: 138
Joined: 2/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Your own statement "Poly folk in my estimation are not as prone to jealousy, it is not in their nature." seems just as unlikely to me (:cough: bullshit :cough:), and is basically untenable based on my own experience and what I have seen happen to others.
Some poly folks are posessive. Some are not. Without a statistical survey, and "more prone"/"less prone" is mere anticdote.

(in reply to fastlane)
Profile   Post #: 50
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