Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Values and Funerals


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Values and Funerals Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Values and Funerals - 9/12/2007 2:31:28 AM   
SDFemDom4cuck


Posts: 2809
Joined: 5/23/2005
From: P'burgh PA
Status: offline 		An interesting thread and one I have great personal experience with. This is going to be long. My apologies in advance.

My paternal grandmother was a despicable bitch. That's actually quite kind when you hear her story.

She suffocated and killed two of her six children as infants and they were written off as accidental deaths. Two of her older children (one of which was my father) witnessed both acts and she threatened that if they ever told that they would be next. This was a small Midwestern town during the years of the Depression and beyond. It wasn't unusual for children to be born at home without a physician attending, infant deaths weren't unusual in the least. Not alot was made of it and nothing was investigated.

She was a lifelong drunk, and in her later years, a valium addict. When in her cups she would discuss the two that died as being evil and unwanted. My father found out in his 30's that the man he had thought was his father throughout his life actually wasn't. She had no idea who was his father. There were rumors for years that 2 of her 7 husbands didn't just run off and leave her in the middle of the night as she claimed. The idea being that perhaps she did away with them as well. Those rumors were not just held within the family.

In the interim there were years of burnings, beatings, being locked in closets for days, and starvations. My father was missing the tip of his right index finger because she chopped it off for sneaking food. She then held it to the gas burner to cauterize the wound. She would disappear for days on drunken binges with some man or another. My father used to speak of those days as a relief that she was gone, her missing days were the only real joy within their childhood. It's not a surprise that her 4 surviving children all left home before the age of 15.

As kids we weren't allowed to be alone with her for any length of time after my father walked in and found her pushing my face into a pillow as an infant because I was crying. She was despised by her surviving children and grandchildren. My father and Aunts fought against one another in her final years over who would take her into their home to care for her. None of her children wanted to have anything to do with her by then. I think my father always had hope that she would change in some way as she grew older but she continuously proved him wrong.

She was well known in town as a woman not to be messed with and she wasn't above shooting a shotgun at anyone that came onto her property uninvited. In her 60's she maimed a neighbor kid with buckshot for coming into the side yard to retrieve a baseball. After that incident my father was convinced by the local authorities to provide her with a home in a different town. 

Her friends in the new town thought she was a kind and lovely woman. One who had survived not just the death of two of her beloved infants, but being abandoned by two no good husbands to boot. They truly thought she was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Of course, they only saw her twice a week at church. They didn't experience her drunken phone calls or profanity filled rages.

When she finally passed it was a day of relief within our family. There was debate over whether to even have a public service but her friends within the church wouldn't hear of it. I had no idea who they were even talking about when I listened to the eulogies they gave at her funeral. It certainly wasn't the woman I knew growing up with as my grandmother. 

Only one of her children deigned to speak any sort of eulogy. They explained that they wished to have only one of them speak on all of their behalf. My aunt simply said that wherever her mother was, she had spent a lifetime earning her place there and that the family drew great comfort in knowing that she would be spending an eternity exactly where she belonged. The burial itself was a private family only affair. We didn't want many witnesses to our dancing on her grave.

My Aunt, in her wisdom, spoke the truth quite eloquently. It was simply a matter of personal perception as to the meaning of that truth. I think they found a way to say what they needed to say; without being disrespectful to those that saw her as something other than they did.

_____________________________

Ms Jo

She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
How glittering they shone -
And every One unbared a Nerve
Or wantoned with a Bone -

I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Values and Funerals - 9/12/2007 2:50:30 AM   
privatelives


Posts: 30
Joined: 8/26/2007
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

       I spotted something Philosophy said over on another thread (a topic I have no intention of posting on today), and it started me thinking a bit.  The quote was

   "even if you hate the guy you don't badmouth him at his funeral. "

      I think he was paraphrasing someone else, but he seemed to be in agreement.

     Perhaps I'm reading too narrowly, projecting too much of my own experience onto the statement.  Not all the events I remember on this day made the national news.   It got me thinking though.  Hunter Thompson once wrote in a eulogy that to the dead, you owe the truth. 

    What about when you bury a genuinely rotten person?  Does the statement above hold true?

    I'm reminded of a funeral I missed about six years ago.  They attendees were essentially her five daughters, a few other relatives and a few members of the church she had attended in her later years (when she wasn't "sick").

    The preacher said a few nice nothings about a woman he barely knew, and then her children hit the microphone.  One read a poem of forgiveness, laundry listing the horrors of her early years.  It kinda went downhill from there.  The word "drunk" appeared often.  They were glad she was dead, and said so.  My understanding is that the church people looked mighty uncomfortable.

    I'm wondering how others feel about this sort of "last word" ritual.  Is it appropriate?  Healthy?  An individual, personal, sort of grudge would fall squarely within the rule Phil stated,  but does decorum demand a respectful send-off to the shits of the Earth???

    



im a simple person, but if you hate someone why on earth go to the funeral to state the fact???
 
(red)

_____________________________

No kind of sensation is keener and more active than pain it's impressions are unmistakable.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Values and Funerals - 9/12/2007 4:00:02 AM   
Twicehappy2x


Posts: 1096
Joined: 3/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

You've never been to an Irish wake have you?


My kind of funeral.
 
Eulogy;
 
" He was a real prick, a drunken bastard, but if you called him to help you hide the body, he would. He was my brother, and i loved that ignorant son of a bitch".

_____________________________

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Values and Funerals - 9/12/2007 4:25:05 AM   
charmdpetKeira


Posts: 916
Joined: 6/2/2007
Status: offline 		When I was younger, I considered funerals to be a last chance to pay respect to the person who died; now that I’m older, I realize funerals are for the people who are left behind. My behavior at any funeral would reflect that belief.

As far as someone else goes, I’d say, “Do what you’ve got to do, but keep in mind; your actions reflect on you.”

k

_____________________________

Life is tough, that does not mean it isn't fair.

There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Values and Funerals - 9/12/2007 5:04:15 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Actually, IMO the entire idea of even having a lengthy, flowery funeral ceremony is to honor the dead person.

Otherwise, I say skip the whole thing and have a private cremation, or a really short ceremony with no Eulogy at all. I didn't want to go into detail, but I have actually been in this kind of position in a personal way. Private cremation ceremonies are a wonderful thing for this very reason.There is no law (except possibly a social one) that states you are obligated to have a fancy funeral for someone who seriously compromised your happiness.

Just like a wedding,  if you want - you can go to a simple justice of the peace vs. a huge cathedral with 17 bride's  maid's. Well, ditto for funerals. If you feel this way, but are providing a lengthy, flowery funeral to begin with, maybe that is hypocritical enough. Why top it off, by forcing yourself into a position of having to say a bunch of things you do not really mean?  Just skip it (the Eulogy) But IMO if it's all been pre-arranged (like the OP's case), or you otherwise get rail-roaded into having one, then I stick by my original post. I'd just be: "In no emotional shape to be able to participate and say a few words, but thanks for asking me, and I know you understand". An d if you are not a close relative or friemd, but really did not like the person, or veen hated them - then I'd have to question why you're even at their funeral in the first place? Of course, to each their own.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/12/2007 6:03:14 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Values and Funerals - 9/12/2007 6:08:03 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I tend to dis-agree with people who think a funeral is all about themselves and their chance to vent their "grief"- even if the person in question was a complete and total  bastard. It's not - it's actually, IMO, just one more (possibly un-necessary) social ritual.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/12/2007 6:12:25 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Values and Funerals - 9/12/2007 6:27:52 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cuddleheart50

The Eulogy is for the ones left behind.  Not the ones that have passed...just my opinion.


"Gravestones cheer the living dear, they're no use to the dead"

G. Copeland and  S. Noonan

(in reply to cuddleheart50)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Values and Funerals - 9/12/2007 6:55:12 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		If I hated them that much, I wouldn't attend the funeral. If all the children felt the same way, they should have skipped the funeral and gone straight to the burial.

But grief work is best accomplished with a professional, not in front of others who weren't directly involved.

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Values and Funerals - 9/12/2007 6:56:33 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I long ago quit going to others funerals, it is a sure thing they ain't gonna show at mine.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Values and Funerals - 9/12/2007 7:24:44 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		        Thanks for posting your story, Ms Jo.  We are talking about the same sort of person.  I like the way your aunt phrased it.

     Perhaps the old witch (in my case) would have done better to leave the service for her daughters to arrange.  They weren't about to let someone with no idea who she was, talk to God on her behalf unanswered.  A complete boycott would have only reinforced her story-line about ungrateful children.

     Thanks for all the other replies as well.  I'm perhaps a touch envious of those who think there must have been some good in there.  Lucky for all of us, Granny was a rare creature. 

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to SDFemDom4cuck)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Values and Funerals - 9/12/2007 7:46:26 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I long ago quit going to others funerals, it is a sure thing they ain't gonna show at mine.

Ron


Great minds think alike.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Values and Funerals - 9/12/2007 10:54:12 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		SDFem, damn! Talk about "Arsenic and old lace."
I'm really surprised no-one capped that old monster.
It's a good thing your father walked in when he did or you probably wouldn't be here.
(See my Irish curse on page one for her!)


_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to SDFemDom4cuck)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Values and Funerals - 9/13/2007 12:41:50 AM   
SDFemDom4cuck


Posts: 2809
Joined: 5/23/2005
From: P'burgh PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

       Thanks for posting your story, Ms Jo.  We are talking about the same sort of person.  I like the way your aunt phrased it.

    Perhaps the old witch (in my case) would have done better to leave the service for her daughters to arrange.  They weren't about to let someone with no idea who she was, talk to God on her behalf unanswered.  A complete boycott would have only reinforced her story-line about ungrateful children.

    Thanks for all the other replies as well.  I'm perhaps a touch envious of those who think there must have been some good in there.  Lucky for all of us, Granny was a rare creature. 


I don't usually put that much of myself out there unless it's humorous. However it was a bit necessary to fully understand just how horrible a person she was. Frankly I wasn't ever able to find a redeeming quality about her. Just like the eulogy...a matter of individual perception.

quote:

SDFem, damn! Talk about "Arsenic and old lace."
I'm really surprised no-one capped that old monster.
It's a good thing your father walked in when he did or you probably wouldn't be here.
(See my Irish curse on page one for her!)


Popeye, I'm 1/2 Irish and 1/2 German. I think most people were afraid she wouldn't actually die if an attempt were made. You know the old horror movies where the monster "dies" and then pops back up right behind you moments later. That would be Grams.

I thought I was a sadist...in comparison to her...I'm perfectly harmless. Trust me, it would take more than that old biddy to get rid of me even as an infant.

_____________________________

Ms Jo

She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
How glittering they shone -
And every One unbared a Nerve
Or wantoned with a Bone -

I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Values and Funerals - 9/13/2007 10:43:31 AM   
bliss1


Posts: 497
Joined: 3/14/2007
Status: offline 		Because my sister's and I do not have anything good to say about the man who helped give us life - we selected not to have a service.  If anyone else in the family wants it - they can plan and pay for it - then explain why his three daughters are not there.

He was a selfish bastard living - he was even more so when he died - sucide.

The man doesn't deserve a service.


_____________________________

Witch before, during, and after my coffee.

(in reply to SDFemDom4cuck)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Values and Funerals - 9/13/2007 12:19:33 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Another Irish curse.

"May the cat eat your corpse and may the devil eat the cat."

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to bliss1)
Profile   Post #: 35
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2]
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Values and Funerals Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.078