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Casie -> Free state Project (9/12/2007 10:03:30 AM)
In case you don't know what the free state project you can cheak it out here freestateproject.org. Wondering what people who already live in NH think about this? Are you opposed to it? Do you welcome 20,000 new liberty loving NH citizens? I don't live there but I imagen the biggest consern would be jobs. With so many people moving to one place, looking for new jobs and housing there may be some issues. So fire away.......

Casie -> RE: Free state Project (9/12/2007 6:26:17 PM)
Wow, must not be anyone from NH around lol

ArgoGeorgia -> RE: Free state Project (9/12/2007 6:32:49 PM)
I'm actually signed up for the Free State Project and have friends in NY (my company has a couple of offices there). It's a good state, very pretty, and surprisingly there are quite a few jobs. If not, Boston and the suburbs are fairly close and are a possible commute. I am working towards the opportunity to move up there. Not sure if the project will succeed or not, but even if it doesn't, it's a good place to live (in my opinion). Unless you don't like snow.

CuriousLord -> RE: Free state Project (9/12/2007 6:33:34 PM)
It's a small state. Care to tell us about the "Free State Project"?

Casie -> RE: Free state Project (9/12/2007 7:20:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord It's a small state. Care to tell us about the "Free State Project"? The free state project, is trying to get 20,000 liberty loving people to move to one state (they voted and that state is NH). Mainly libertarians, to try to create a place with libertarian values. Once 20,000 people have commited they are suppose to move there with in 5 years. Once there, they are suppose to be active in local politics. There moto is Liberty in our Lifetime. They feel they can have the biggest impact if they are living in the same state vs stroan about the USA. freestateproject.org if you want to check it out for a better explaination.

TheHeretic -> RE: Free state Project (9/12/2007 7:28:47 PM)
The link wasn't working. Try this one. http://www.freestateproject.org/ It's an interesting idea. I suspect there might have been a bong in the room when they came up with it. "Dude! What if all the cool people, like, all moved to one place, and, this is the best part, all, like, voted for the same people? We could fuckin' take over!" Fun to toss around the lava lamp, but probably doomed to failure if it ever got off the ground. I see backlash. The people who have called NH 'home' their whole lives might not be thrilled to have 'the best and brightest' move in down the road with plans to take over. I'm reminded of a religious group/cult that tried to take political control of a rural area by bringing in hundreds of homeless and registering them to vote (before the snarky embarass themselves, the cult also poisoned the food in buffets with salmonella to keep residents from the polls on election day). All they did was lose an election AND bring down a local/state/federal investigation which destroyed the group. Granted, that is a worst case, for the topic. Those 20,000 might like the way of life, but they wouldn't know the culture that spawned it. Worse, despite no real understanding of the unique regional system, they'll be out to "improve" on it. I can't imagine that sitting well with people who like things just the way they are. Leaving the madness, joining a small community with a great quality of life, living well and freely... Who wouldn't want that? Doing it to forment revolution? Did they miss the part about everybody having guns?

Casie -> RE: Free state Project (9/12/2007 7:44:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic The link wasn't working. Try this one. http://www.freestateproject.org/ It's an interesting idea. I suspect there might have been a bong in the room when they came up with it. "Dude! What if all the cool people, like, all moved to one place, and, this is the best part, all, like, voted for the same people? We could fuckin' take over!" Fun to toss around the lava lamp, but probably doomed to failure if it ever got off the ground. I see backlash. The people who have called NH 'home' their whole lives might not be thrilled to have 'the best and brightest' move in down the road with plans to take over. I'm reminded of a religious group/cult that tried to take political control of a rural area by bringing in hundreds of homeless and registering them to vote (before the snarky embarass themselves, the cult also poisoned the food in buffets with salmonella to keep residents from the polls on election day). All they did was lose an election AND bring down a local/state/federal investigation which destroyed the group. Granted, that is a worst case, for the topic. Those 20,000 might like the way of life, but they wouldn't know the culture that spawned it. Worse, despite no real understanding of the unique regional system, they'll be out to "improve" on it. I can't imagine that sitting well with people who like things just the way they are. Leaving the madness, joining a small community with a great quality of life, living well and freely... Who wouldn't want that? Doing it to forment revolution? Did they miss the part about everybody having guns? They choose NH because they are already so tolernt of libertarians. There are currently 30 libertarians in office there. Hell there motto is Live free or die. Which defintally embodies the libertarian mind set. And Libertarians are VERY pro-gun. ?They are constitution loving ppl!!

farglebargle -> RE: Free state Project (9/12/2007 7:46:38 PM)
It's pointless as long as the feds suck out the dollars with payroll and socialist security taxes. As long as you have to answer to them, you'll never be free of their shackles.

TheIronHorse -> RE: Free state Project (9/12/2007 7:47:58 PM)
NH is too close to Taxachusetts for my taste. I cant drive through it to get to Chicago. That leaves Vermont or Quebecistan as my only pathways home. quote: ORIGINAL: Casie In case you don't know what the free state project you can cheak it out here freestateproject.org. Wondering what people who already live in NH think about this? Are you opposed to it? Do you welcome 20,000 new liberty loving NH citizens? I don't live there but I imagen the biggest consern would be jobs. With so many people moving to one place, looking for new jobs and housing there may be some issues. So fire away.......

Marc2b -> RE: Free state Project (9/12/2007 8:31:26 PM)
quote: It's an interesting idea. It seems to be working for Mexico in getting the Southwest back. Just kidding. Seriously, as Heretic noted, these "let’s all move to one place and take over," schemes have been bandied about for some time now and usually don’t get pass sobering up. A few get attempted and sputter out. The advent of the internet, however, I think will change that. Now we can talk to just about anyone in the country – or even the world – one on one. Now those people can organize. Still I see potential for trouble. First, I can’t help but feel sorry for the poor New... Hampshireians?... Hampshirites?... whatever... when all them outsiders come to town and star re-arranging the furniture. Their fellow Americans have every right to move to New Hampshire but it still don’t seem right. Secondly, mass movements have a tendency to break up and turn in on themselves after the initial goal has been achieved. I’m not saying the Free Staters will turn upon each other with guns but they may discover that they are more politically diverse than they believed. There are a million things people can disagree about.

popeye1250 -> RE: Free state Project (9/12/2007 10:12:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Casie quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic The link wasn't working. Try this one. http://www.freestateproject.org/ It's an interesting idea. I suspect there might have been a bong in the room when they came up with it. "Dude! What if all the cool people, like, all moved to one place, and, this is the best part, all, like, voted for the same people? We could fuckin' take over!" Fun to toss around the lava lamp, but probably doomed to failure if it ever got off the ground. I see backlash. The people who have called NH 'home' their whole lives might not be thrilled to have 'the best and brightest' move in down the road with plans to take over. I'm reminded of a religious group/cult that tried to take political control of a rural area by bringing in hundreds of homeless and registering them to vote (before the snarky embarass themselves, the cult also poisoned the food in buffets with salmonella to keep residents from the polls on election day). All they did was lose an election AND bring down a local/state/federal investigation which destroyed the group. Granted, that is a worst case, for the topic. Those 20,000 might like the way of life, but they wouldn't know the culture that spawned it. Worse, despite no real understanding of the unique regional system, they'll be out to "improve" on it. I can't imagine that sitting well with people who like things just the way they are. Leaving the madness, joining a small community with a great quality of life, living well and freely... Who wouldn't want that? Doing it to forment revolution? Did they miss the part about everybody having guns? They choose NH because they are already so tolernt of libertarians. There are currently 30 libertarians in office there. Hell there motto is Live free or die. Which defintally embodies the libertarian mind set. And Libertarians are VERY pro-gun. ?They are constitution loving ppl!! Well, they'd better like guns if they're moving to New Hampshire, everyone has them up there! I lived in New Hampshire for 10 years and liked it except for the long cold winters. I heard about that project and thought it would be a good thing and so did a lot of people I talked to about it. "Good, let 'em come" was the general consensus. They have a "Town Meeting" form of government up there. Any registered voter in town can vote on different issues in the Town Meeting. But, they also put things on the ballot as well both locally and state wide. It really (is) a participatory type of govt. There's a lot of former Massachusetts residents who live in the Southern part of the state, lots of natives call them "Massholes."

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Free state Project (9/12/2007 10:25:34 PM)
I'd like it if it were in the South. It's too damn cold up there for me, and New England accents kind of freak me out.

Owner59 -> RE: Free state Project (9/12/2007 11:18:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic The link wasn't working. Try this one. http://www.freestateproject.org/ It's an interesting idea. I suspect there might have been a bong in the room when they came up with it. "Dude! What if all the cool people, like, all moved to one place, and, this is the best part, all, like, voted for the same people? We could fuckin' take over!" Fun to toss around the lava lamp, but probably doomed to failure if it ever got off the ground. I see backlash. The people who have called NH 'home' their whole lives might not be thrilled to have 'the best and brightest' move in down the road with plans to take over. I'm reminded of a religious group/cult that tried to take political control of a rural area by bringing in hundreds of homeless and registering them to vote (before the snarky embarass themselves, the cult also poisoned the food in buffets with salmonella to keep residents from the polls on election day). All they did was lose an election AND bring down a local/state/federal investigation which destroyed the group. Granted, that is a worst case, for the topic. Those 20,000 might like the way of life, but they wouldn't know the culture that spawned it. Worse, despite no real understanding of the unique regional system, they'll be out to "improve" on it. I can't imagine that sitting well with people who like things just the way they are. Leaving the madness, joining a small community with a great quality of life, living well and freely... Who wouldn't want that? Doing it to forment revolution? Did they miss the part about everybody having guns? It's an interesting idea. I suspect there might have been a bong in the room when they came up with it. "Dude! What if all the cool people, like, all moved to one place, and, this is the best part, all, like, voted for the same people? We could fuckin' take over!" Fun to toss around the lava lamp, but probably doomed to failure if it ever got off the ground. No,not really.But there has been a group that`s been attepting this for years,and they`re rightwingers to boot. Idaho was there "choice".lol and the poor Idahoens had to put up with them. http://www.revisionisthistory.org/essay22.html <from artical> Mr. Butler's Aryan Nations was established in the 1970s on 20 acres of farmland which were to be the first parcel in a growing territory to be set aside as a white people's enclave in the mountain Northwest. Thousands of whites over the years contributed funds to Aryan Nations' based on this concept of a "bastion." Some of these donors were shocked when last year the 82-year-old Butler announced that the land would not be set aside as an Aryan homeland after his death, but deeded to his non-political children as their private inheritance

popeye1250 -> RE: Free state Project (9/12/2007 11:32:02 PM)
LOL, ah.......Owner, I don't think that's what Casie was talking about. If you want to live among white people only then more power to you.

ChainsandFreedom -> RE: Free state Project (9/12/2007 11:44:11 PM)
I have family up by Keene. I've never lived in NH, but a month here and 3 days there one year, a week here and a week there for more than two decades adds up... Its a beautiful place. Lots of old stone homes and breath-taking sceenery. It helps if you find cold so bad your skin chaps after five minutes out at 8 oclock in november to be beautiful. The people I've met are usually decent, good people. better than average people. I have a few doubts about the Free State Project, though. 1) theres only like two liquor stores in the entire state. They're the 'live free or die' state, but they also have alot of good old fashioned puritan values and laws. This may butt heads with die-hard libratarinsim. 2) how in the world will 20,000 voters run politics in a state with more than a million people? 3) the free-stater's will have a run for their money with all the 'masshole's' who keep moving there already. I think the numbers would at the very least equal out between bostonian's and libratarians. There's already miles of roads and houses that didn't exist ten years ago winding through the woods and ponds. 4) the massachucetes folk have something going for them the Free-Staters dont: jobs. There are lots of jobs in New Hampsire, but few that pay very high, its a very segmented economy, and fewer still that pay well as compaired to most of the rest of the country where people would be moving from. Even if working in Boston/Mass wouldn't be a cop-out, in my lifetime Boston hasn't usually had the friendliest economy either.

petdave -> RE: Free state Project (9/13/2007 5:30:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic I'm reminded of a religious group/cult that tried to take political control of a rural area by bringing in hundreds of homeless and registering them to vote (before the snarky embarass themselves, the cult also poisoned the food in buffets with salmonella to keep residents from the polls on election day). All they did was lose an election AND bring down a local/state/federal investigation which destroyed the group. Granted, that is a worst case, for the topic. Where was that? Sounds like an interesting study, but i've never heard of it before. For other arguments... One of the ideas behind the Free State Project is that a lot of libertarian types are entrepreneurs and small-business owners. Not everyone has to hope that someone will give them a job, some go with the idea that they will find a need and fill it, or bring an existing business and find new employees or continue an individual enterprise. There's a saying that "all politics are ultimately local"... Aside from siphoning money and making it difficult for you to buy things, the Fed doesn't intrude into day-to-day life as much as state and local governments do. In developing the project, they deliberately picked a state that was already amenable to libertarian ideals... some of the most relaxed firearms laws in the country, "Live Free or Die", relatively low population density, etc. But, yeah, the snow thing is a killer [:'(] South Carolina was in the running, but no... Instead we get some kind of fundamentalist Christian group that wants to do the same thing! Sigh...

firmobeisance -> RE: Free state Project (9/13/2007 5:45:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: petdave quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic I'm reminded of a religious group/cult that tried to take political control of a rural area by bringing in hundreds of homeless and registering them to vote (before the snarky embarass themselves, the cult also poisoned the food in buffets with salmonella to keep residents from the polls on election day). All they did was lose an election AND bring down a local/state/federal investigation which destroyed the group. Granted, that is a worst case, for the topic. Where was that? Sounds like an interesting study, but i've never heard of it before. The name of the town is called "Antelope", a small rural community, owned property actually, not far from The Dalles, Oregon; which in turn is about 80 miles East of Portland. There is a bronze memorial on the courthouse steps in The Dalles, commemorating the "event". I live about 20 miles from The Dalles. quote: Rajneesh, a West Coast cult led by a charismatic Indian guru, bought tens of thousands of acres of land near the town of Antelope, Oregon in the early 1980s. Their new utopia was named Rancho Rajneesh, but friction soon developed between the townspeople and the red-robed cultists. Things got worse when it was learned that the Rajneesh were bussing in homeless people while simultaneously trying to poison the townspeople with salmonella -- an attempt to throw local elections in the Rajneeshee's favor. Open warfare seemed possible, but then the guru tried (and failed) to flee the country. Rajneesh quickly collapsed. Thousands of leaderless followers melted back into American society, and the utopia was abandoned. Most of its surviving buildings were destroyed in a 1996 range fire, and in 1999 the property was sold to a Christian youth group. All that remains to mark that time is a plaque at the base of the Antelope post office flagpole: "Dedicated to those of this community who, through the Rajneesh invasion and occupation of 1981-85, remained, resisted, and remembered." http://www.roadsideamerica.com/sights/sightstory.php?tip_AttrId=%3D14880

ArgoGeorgia -> RE: Free state Project (9/13/2007 6:16:54 AM)
One of the main theories/assumptions about the project is that the 20,000 people who move their are very political active. It is this 'activist' sort of nature that will help make that number have more of an impact. And, considering the low turnout at every election, I think 20,000 people who always vote, take part in campaigns, go door to door, etc will have an impact. As much of an impact as the project hopes? Only time will tell....

ChainsandFreedom -> RE: Free state Project (9/13/2007 9:03:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: petdave One of the ideas behind the Free State Project is that a lot of libertarian types are entrepreneurs and small-business owners. Not everyone has to hope that someone will give them a job, some go with the idea that they will find a need and fill it, or bring an existing business and find new employees or continue an individual enterprise. There's a saying that "all politics are ultimately local"... Aside from siphoning money and making it difficult for you to buy things, the Fed doesn't intrude into day-to-day life as much as state and local governments do. In developing the project, they deliberately picked a state that was already amenable to libertarian ideals... some of the most relaxed firearms laws in the country, "Live Free or Die", rela/tively low population density, etc. But, yeah, the snow thing is a killer [:'(] South Carolina was in the running, but no... Instead we get some kind of fundamentalist Christian group that wants to do the same thing! Sigh... I hope you see the irony in the term " amendable to libertarian ideals"? The same sort of irony you'd find in a large bloc of ideologically like-minded bussiness owners trying to change political course of an entire state from the outside? Not to oversimplify the debate, but I think the reason NH is so agreeable to libritarian ideals is exactly what the libratarians would kill. Basic sociological common occurance. The low population density means little population pressure. Nobody minds guns because theres low crime. Nobodies racist because theres so few minorities to 'threaten' their culture. They really don't care what god you worship because they don't have to see you doing it anyway. Nobody wants big government because they arn't big enough to need over-pass funding. As my die-hard New England uncle would say..."ashe swoon ashe I retiah, I'hm mowvin tuo Montana!" "why montana, Jimmi?" "bechaus it's the only state in the union with less peoplah than Alaska!"

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