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Why I won't vote for Ron Paul - 9/12/2007 2:27:56 PM

SugarMyChurro

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Ron Paul does not support Universal Healthcare on any basis. In fact, he advocates a reduction of government regulation over the healthcare industry. He also advocates some nutty insurance scheme over good old malpractice lawsuits - yeah, because it's the lawyers' fault doctors make actionable mistakes. I know he maintains an anti-choice position also. None of that works for me.

Ultimately, he's just another "free market" lunatic.

Read about it here:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul339.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul345.html

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RE: Why I won't vote for Ron Paul - 9/12/2007 2:57:05 PM

seeksfemslave

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Haven't read your links but honest errors exist everywhere , even the medical profession, and legal intervention will mainly benefit the legal profession who often can be avaricious "barstewerds."

I am very impressed by Mike Huckabee as I have said elsewhere.

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RE: Why I won't vote for Ron Paul - 9/12/2007 2:59:04 PM

SugarMyChurro

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I oppose tort reform in all forms. The law of torts is the common law. It's a good thing.

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RE: Why I won't vote for Ron Paul - 9/12/2007 3:01:40 PM

girl4you2

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i agree with you about tort reform; it's also usually interesting to see whom the most vehement advocates of tort reform are.

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RE: Why I won't vote for Ron Paul - 9/12/2007 3:04:51 PM

seeksfemslave

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There exists a clear line IMO between genuine grievance/difference of opinion to be settled by legal action and simple money grubbing.
I accept that it may be difficult to limit the downside without diminishing the legitimate side.

I bet the legal profession is happy about that lol

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Post #: 5

RE: Why I won't vote for Ron Paul - 9/12/2007 4:35:21 PM

farglebargle

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Hey, let's just get rid of the HMOs. Insurers are OK.. Physicians are OK, it's the HMO in the middle which is the parasite.

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RE: Why I won't vote for Ron Paul - 9/12/2007 6:02:52 PM

Owner59

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Yup,he`s old school republican,honest and truthful,what I call the loyal opposition.The name neo-cons have given "real" republicans,is palleo-cons.lol.Those neo-cons are really something,aren`t they.palleo-cons <chuckles some more>

At least he isn`t hiding anything or using trickery,to get elected.He`s stating his positions,defending them,and the American people will have real,authentic,and true choices.

With neo-cons,it`s three card monty,or a shell game,or some other con job.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 9/12/2007 6:07:36 PM >

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RE: Why I won't vote for Ron Paul - 9/12/2007 10:36:50 PM

SugarMyChurro

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Paul is the honorable opposition. I didn't mean the OP as a personal attack on him, just his policies.

Just clarifying...

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RE: Why I won't vote for Ron Paul - 9/12/2007 11:19:09 PM

Termyn8or

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Where does the Constitution say you get medical ?

Your arguments, as valid as may be, do not sway me one bit. We need Ron Paul for alot more important things than that. You just don't realize how bad it is. With China holding a significant muscle pertaining to our foreign policy because of the huge amount of our debt they hold, they have already had words with the US.

What happened was is that the US pressured China to unlock the currency values, China responded by saying that if that happens we might get rid of these dollars. Now we have Israel and China vying for control of US policy ? This is where the rest of them got us, and this is a bigger issue than healthcare, because it will destroy our ability to provide healthcare at all, public or private.

The thing is people do not think ahead. Read the thread "Next time you hear a politician talk ......" the rest of that is billion. The point of it was the government spends a billion dollars every 8 hours and 20 minutes. But as I pointed out, spead out over the three hundred million of us, that is like $9 a day. Now there are a hell of alot of people paying more than that. That other money goes to pay interest. We have this huge credit card, no limit, except for one thing, they get interest. Now the interest alone is killing us.

If I were Ron Paul, as President I would go to China. I would convince their government that they need to pay the workers more. Reward the workers. Build factories there that pay good money, maybe not as good as here used to but start the trend. You start that cycle there and it will raise the cost of their goods here naturally.

This is the moral way to do it. Even if the US government would be allowed to build a couple of factories there, NOT military bases, they could pay well and flood the local economy with a bit more Yuan. If the trend moves forward, skilled workers will be in more demand, and will have some say in where they work, like I do and I am sure many other as well here.

Fact is, here, if you work at MsD's you probably don't have the time to go to school or look for a better job. I know a Woman from China who works 14 hours a day, 7 days a week just to pay for her trip here. I would suspect she is under the table, but I can't say for sure. Even if you have a daytime factory job for $8 an hour, you can't take the time off for anything because you can't spare a dime.

This fits the definition of serfdom, which is what we all have come under.

Ron Paul is the only candidate whom I can be sure does not think like this. In my opinion, he is the best choice. I do not agree with all of his beliefs, I disagree with quite a few. But he is still the best choice, here and now.

If we don't get a guy like Paul, we will go down the same path, and I mean DOWN. Look at the big picture and you can see it, democrats are neo-cons too. They are all the same. They are elite, and elitists. Ron Paul is not an elitist.

In closing, there are bigger fish to fry so to speak that the issues you mentioned. As such you have not convinced me. Vote your conscience.

T

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

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RE: Why I won't vote for Ron Paul - 9/13/2007 1:21:03 AM

UtopianRanger

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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

There exists a clear line IMO between genuine grievance/difference of opinion to be settled by legal action and simple money grubbing.
I accept that it may be difficult to limit the downside without diminishing the legitimate side.

I bet the legal profession is happy about that lol

For me.....a full-fledged demonization of the Federal Reserve system before the whole of the American people, is worth any of Ron Paul's shortcomings.

They say most folks vote with their pocket books - I'd have to include myself there.

- R

_____________________________

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(in reply to seeksfemslave)

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RE: Why I won't vote for Ron Paul - 9/13/2007 3:22:47 AM

SugarMyChurro

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Yeah, interesting stuff on his view of the fed here:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul53.html
and here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4kxTkhwR_Q

This view is considered by most people to be a very fringe perspective - that's not going to help him become a viable candidate.

Personally, I am very interested in his views in this regard. But he's such a mixed bag of ideas and all I want is value for the money they take from us. I don't hope for a reduction in taxes, I hope to get a greater cut of what they take and won't stop taking - not ever.

< Message edited by SugarMyChurro -- 9/13/2007 3:24:50 AM >

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RE: Why I won't vote for Ron Paul - 9/13/2007 3:38:48 AM

UtopianRanger

Posts: 3251
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quote:

This view is considered by most people to be a very fringe perspective - that's not going to help him become a viable candidate.

My Friend......

The only reason its fringe.....is because very FEW understand it. And there's nothing conspiratorial about losing it. Even if you asked the above-average/informed person on the street to explain it - and more importantly, explain in detail what's wrong with it, even with the help of say ''wikipedia'', very few could do so and fully understand the ramifications in their own mind.

So that's why I always say - we need something like the Ross Perot infomercials of the 90's to make people aware and have a full understanding.

JMHO

- R

PS - I think you need a new quote from Heraclitus

< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 9/13/2007 3:52:45 AM >

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

Post #: 12

RE: Why I won't vote for Ron Paul - 9/13/2007 6:50:18 AM

ArgoGeorgia

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From: Atlanta, Georgia
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I think that the main appeal of Ron Paul for me is the fact that he truly understands - and fights for - the limits placed on the federal government by the US Constitution. He is very consistent in his approach to most issues.

Stem cell research? Not authorized under the Constitution, should be neither banned nor funded by US government.
Drug prohibition? Not authorized under the Constitution, DEA is illegal
Abortion? Not authorized under the Constitution to regulate. (One caveat here - he did initiate the Sanctity of Life act which would have stated human life/rights begin at conception). But, otherwise, a state issue.
Death Penalty? State issue, US ot authorized under the Constitution to execute anyone.
Flag desecration laws? Not authorized under the Constitution
Domestic surveilance? Against NSA and other attempts to go around the Constitution
Federal education funding/initatives? Not authorized under the Constitution, leave it up to state and local governments
Federal marriage laws? Not authorized under the Constitution, leave it up to the states

From what I can tell, in almost all instances, he says US gov simply is not authorized to do what it does. That power should be returned to the states and local governments which are more accountable and closer to the people. AND this would have the affect of reducing the amount of money needed by a drastically shrunk federal gov't, thus lowering taxes.

It is this consistency backed up by his actions that make me feel he is honorable. And while I may not agree 100% with many of his positions, I respect them. And I pretty much agree with his positions on issues which are important to me.

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RE: Why I won't vote for Ron Paul - 9/13/2007 9:20:20 AM

caitlyn

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Ron Paul is an excellent Congressman, and would make a great Senator. I've campaigned for him in the past, and would do so again, for an election to Congress.

I don't support him for President. His aims are unrealistic, and I think he would put his view of how things should be, ahead of what the voters would mandate.

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RE: Why I won't vote for Ron Paul - 9/13/2007 10:43:47 AM

GhitaAmati

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I ditto Argo.....

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RE: Why I won't vote for Ron Paul - 9/13/2007 11:17:45 AM

Owner59

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ditto caitlyn,lol

<winks at ghita>

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Why I won't vote for Ron Paul - 9/13/2007 11:47:11 AM

luckydog1

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And as I was pointing out 2 weeks ago, people like owner and sugar were just pretending to support RP.

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RE: Why I won't vote for Ron Paul - 9/13/2007 12:01:14 PM

ArgoGeorgia

Posts: 256
Joined: 2/9/2007
From: Atlanta, Georgia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Ron Paul is an excellent Congressman, and would make a great Senator. I've campaigned for him in the past, and would do so again, for an election to Congress.

I don't support him for President. His aims are unrealistic, and I think he would put his view of how things should be, ahead of what the voters would mandate.

Unfortunately, it seems like many people have felt we've gone past a line of no return.. Sadly, his goals might be unrealistic, even though in reality, his goals are exactly as the Constitution sets out. And I think as long as the voters are asking for exactly what is declared in the Constitution, President Paul would be the biggest supporter. We must remember that the U.S. is not a government of people, but of laws. We are not a democracy, no matter what public education social studies teaches us. A true democracy is simply organized mob rule.

If the people mandated that they want something that the Constitution does not allow the federal government to do, then they have multiple recourses: 1) enact the legislation at the local or state level. 2) Work on getting a constitutional amendment passed. 3) Revolution.

When the President continually does what the voters mandate, then he is simply pandering to the majority and not protecting the laws of the land.

_____________________________

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. No, seriously. They have t-shirts for everything nowadays.

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RE: Why I won't vote for Ron Paul - 9/13/2007 1:32:52 PM

SugarMyChurro

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Joined: 4/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1
And as I was pointing out 2 weeks ago, people like owner and sugar were just pretending to support RP.

I like a lot of what he says, I esp. would under a Constitutional system of government. But we are well beyond that stage now, a post Constitutional era if you will. I know I argue otherwise sometimes - and I think it's a good thing to do so when it comes to individual rights and trying to keep the government in check. But I also don't actually believe we are operating under the Constitution any longer - that's de facto, plain for all to see.

What I actually said before was this ( http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=1160126 ):

quote:

Personally, I like everything about Ron Paul except his stand on abortion. I just don't know that our country can function under the Constitution any longer - it's all gone too far I fear.

The Constitutional republic is the comforting lie they tell us in order to get us to accept a de facto plutocracy. That's reality.

So I wasn't really pretending anything. And I learned a few more things about Ron Paul I didn't like since that time.

Not a big surprise really...

(in reply to luckydog1)

Post #: 19

RE: Why I won't vote for Ron Paul - 9/13/2007 1:36:33 PM

SugarMyChurro

Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ArgoGeorgia
Unfortunately, it seems like many people have felt we've gone past a line of no return.

::raises hand::

quote:

ORIGINAL: ArgoGeorgia
A true democracy is simply organized mob rule.

I agree. But even that is another lie they tell to hide the plutocracy.

Corpocracy.

Lootocracy.

Whatever...

(in reply to ArgoGeorgia)

Post #: 20

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