Boy Geishas Reboot! (Full Version)

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Jinger -> Boy Geishas Reboot! (9/13/2007 6:50:24 PM)

Do you guys remember that post a couple months ago about boy geishas?
Well, I got excited because it was something I had been thinking about way before that post, and afterwards I found myself once again fantasizing over what life would be like as a boy geisha.

But then I became very dissappointed, because I was basically just putting myself in a kimono (red and gold) and maybe some makeup. It was basically Memoirs of a Geisha, only...you know...about me?
But that's foolishness! If there were boy geishas then our dress and conduct would adhere to the desires of women! And if society was female supremacist, then somehow I doubt they'd want all us boy geishas to dress and act like girl geishas.

I desire clarity to my fantasy, realism even.
That said:

How would boy geishas dress?

How would we act?

Would we be catagorized? If so, how? Physically? Racially? Hair color?

What kind of arts would we be trained to perform?

How exactly would we go about relationships with our clients?

...

I only want women to answer those questions. I will completely ignore anything a guy has to say about them. That's me being assertive. Damn skippy.

However, it seems obvious to me that the bosses of the boy geisha houses would be men, and therefore I ask: How would you go about controling the house?
Your answer must be based on what the women have to say...or I'll ignore it.

...

And for those who want to get real personal, check out my profile and whatnot and message me with what you think my boy geisha name would be. I'd love to find out.

Forgive me if this is self centered...but you know...what can I say?
I'm self centered.
Don't worry though, I got a zit on my face yesterday and it's really big. So the world balances out like that.
I've named it Harrison.
I hate Harrison.
He is a bastard.



undergroundsea -> RE: Boy Geishas Reboot! (9/13/2007 7:07:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jinger
I only want women to answer those questions. I will completely ignore anything a guy has to say about them. That's me being assertive. Damn skippy.


In line with my philosophy that everyone can respond to everything in forums, I am ignoring what you said about ignoring what a guy has to say about the first set of questions. That's me being assertive. Damn skippy ;-)

As discussed in the thread for pro subs, I see the bigger quesiton to be about the client base. While I think the potential for such clients is small, I don't think it is zero. Also, I see this potential to increase with time. I elaborate.

I sometimes lament being born a generation or two too early with regards to Fm (Female dominance, male submission). I think the same can be said about the potential for male geishas. It is more common today for women to have financial power and seek boy toys than it was a generation ago. I expect it will become more common as the imbalance in college enrollment and graduation rates across the sexes shifts earning power in favor of women. Accordingly, I expect some of the behaviors across the sexes will blur. Specifically, I think there is a large gap between the importance of appearance amongst men and women and that this gap will reduce in times to come. Our grandsons might buy shoes like women do today ;-)

As for running the geisha house, I can see it being done by either sex.

Cheers,

Sea



Jinger -> RE: Boy Geishas Reboot! (9/13/2007 7:38:37 PM)

I do not think a boy geisha would equal a pro sub.
That's crazy talk.

I skimmed your reply. I didn't read most of it on general principle.
So there.

I'm making assumptions about what you really wrote, because you disreguarded my request.
So ha!

A boy geisha house, or a classy one, must be run by a boy!



undergroundsea -> RE: Boy Geishas Reboot! (9/13/2007 8:29:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jinger
I do not think a boy geisha would equal a pro sub.


There are differences and there are parallels. I think the broader question is how likely are women willing to pay for attention from men in present day society.

quote:

A boy geisha house, or a classy one, must be run by a boy!


My posts are so convoluted it's impossible to skim over them. Fess up. You have my response memorized word for word ;-)

I think a classy geisha house would need to be run by a classy man or a classy woman who understands what the house must deliver. I am curious why you think it must be run by a boy.

I appreciate your sense of humor. I think the pimple naming will place you at an advantage over other men when it will be time to name children.

Cheers,

Sea




SunNMoon -> RE: Boy Geishas Reboot! (9/13/2007 8:51:01 PM)

Hi Jinger,

First off I think you need to read up more on Geishas. I don’t have my book with me right now, Geishas are artists. They are outside of the normal social world of Japan yet also are representatives of the past. They have more sexual and earning freedom then many women in the past. They do a job to entertain the client, and they create a world of wonderment.

Now if you would like to be a Geishas study what they study. Dance, music, ways of entraining. There is a very good autobiography out by a woman who was one of the top Geisha in Japan; she clearly makes the point of the freedoms and limitations she experienced in her role.

My main point is Geishas aren’t toys; you don’t play with a work of art you admire it and study the beauty that it shows.

PS
Don’t be rude.



Rumtiger -> RE: Boy Geishas Reboot! (9/13/2007 10:41:42 PM)

I aint dancing



cuffnspankme -> RE: Boy Geishas Reboot! (9/13/2007 11:02:45 PM)

Damn Rum, I wanted to see you in a kimono and all dolled up, there goes my fantasy, thanks..*sigh*



glassdoll -> RE: Boy Geishas Reboot! (9/14/2007 2:49:41 AM)

quote:

Don't worry though, I got a zit on my face yesterday and it's really big. So the world balances out like that.
I've named it Harrison.
I hate Harrison.
He is a bastard.


You win the award I give out every day: the first person to make me laugh on the forums. Congrads. And I don't know shit about Gieshas. Damn skippy.



NovelApproach -> RE: Boy Geishas Reboot! (9/14/2007 2:58:33 AM)

Well, no reason why we *can't* put him in a kimono anyway... I happen to find men's kimono very sexy if they're worn properly.  Either male stage makeup as worn by males in Japanese theater or no makeup at all would be appropriate. 

The personality of a male geisha would vary from one to the next, just as each female geisha is distinctive and unique.  Performance skills would likely include various forms of music, dance, theatre, perhaps even comedy, in both modern and traditional styles.  When serving clients, the male geisha would be charming and witty, and always striving to amuse and please.  Lots of subtle flattery worked into the conversation would be ideal.

To be honest, I have a feeling that CM's ideal of a male geisha would actually be more of a male oiran.  Oiran are extremely high-class courtesians with similar training to geisha, and with the added bonus of the possibility of sex.  [;)]



Rumtiger -> RE: Boy Geishas Reboot! (9/14/2007 6:13:45 AM)

Already been in a couple kimonos, I doubt I look pretty in makeup



Jinger -> RE: Boy Geishas Reboot! (9/14/2007 8:43:41 AM)

quote:

First off I think you need to read up more on Geishas. I don’t have my book with me right now, Geishas are artists. They are outside of the normal social world of Japan yet also are representatives of the past. They have more sexual and earning freedom then many women in the past. They do a job to entertain the client, and they create a world of wonderment. Now if you would like to be a Geishas study what they study. Dance, music, ways of entraining. There is a very good autobiography out by a woman who was one of the top Geisha in Japan; she clearly makes the point of the freedoms and limitations she experienced in her role. My main point is Geishas aren’t toys; you don’t play with a work of art you admire it and study the beauty that it shows. PS Don’t be rude.






I should read up on Geishas, I think. What's the name of that autobiography? But as much as I could learn about Geishas I'd still be reading a reflection of a patriarchal society. As much as they were artists, as much as they were expressing themselves as women, they were undeniably doing it for the pleasure of men. I would never be so glib as to think of them as toys. And I definitely don't want to be a geisha (I cannot dance, it is a shameful sight).

The point of my questions is more of a "what if" and honestly...I'm rather interested in writing a story about just that. This is all a fiction, so I hold no pretention of trying to look like I know what I'm talking about.

Ugg!
And speaking of glib, how exactly, was I being rude again? I missed it.
I might be able to reform if you were a touch more descriptive, aye?

***

I took a cycling class today and god damn it was intense.
I think I may have broken my ass.
It feels broken.



Jinger -> RE: Boy Geishas Reboot! (9/14/2007 8:58:54 AM)

quote:

My posts are so convoluted it's impossible to skim over them. Fess up. You have my response memorized word for word ;-) I think a classy geisha house would need to be run by a classy man or a classy woman who understands what the house must deliver. I am curious why you think it must be run by a boy.


Falsities!
Un-truths!

I deny it! I'm being flippant with your remarks!

I confess that I base the entirety of my current fantasy on Memoirs of a Geisha...the...the movie.
So, it must be run by a boy because whatshername's boss was a woman. And therefore in a polar dimension, it would be flipped. That makes sense to me.
We'll need lots of energon to get it working though. Better change to beast mode.

Sorry that was an in-joke.

I really want to write about it seriously, but like I said before...not only do I need female input but I should likely do some reading.



SunNMoon -> RE: Boy Geishas Reboot! (9/14/2007 9:57:03 AM)

The book is,

"Geisha, A Life" by Mineko Iwasaki

A very good book I couldn't put it down.



ocilla -> RE: Boy Geishas Reboot! (9/14/2007 10:28:50 AM)

For some reason I can picture Aswad running a boy Giesha house.  But then Diane would do a great job too. he he.  In fact in someways she is already training an house of boytoys.

But yeah - I would just go straight with the fictional version of Geisha and take a few steps further for boy Geisha.  In fact you may want to search through science fiction and fantasy to flesh out your vision.  Once you've deviated from history and fact why limit yourself. 

I wonder if you could look to roman boy slaves to find some fodder.  I know that suggestion might tweak tammyjo (use just for inspiration though). Have you ever seen Fellini's Satyricon? It's been ages since I saw it, but seems like there maybe some ideas there.  Course they were servicing men, as I recall, rather than women, but still the skills honed may apply. 

Alright - here are some skills and activities that I would appreciate in a person.  Being an excellent massuese, workout partner (trainer), healthy chef, secretarial skills, child care skills, party planner, carpenter skills, plumber, electrical, skills, ummm let't see - oh being able to give facials, color, cut and style hair, mani and pedi skills.....tailoring, making shoes and purses and designing and making flattering and functional clothing for the Ms., attentive and anticipatory companion out and and at home, bring any brawn that may be needed from gardening to furniture moving.....But I think many of those things are desirous specifically because I cannot afford to hire folks with all those skills as often  as I would like or maybe at all.

Can't imagine the monetary exchange as occurred for the Geisha's.  In many ways the Geisha's were just objects and entertainment - not sexual, that was a different person.  I am not interested in having an object of beautiy or entertainment from a boy.  My cats do wonders that way and they think I am god.



aidan -> RE: Boy Geishas Reboot! (9/14/2007 12:34:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NovelApproach

To be honest, I have a feeling that CM's ideal of a male geisha would actually be more of a male oiran.  Oiran are extremely high-class courtesians with similar training to geisha, and with the added bonus of the possibility of sex.  [;)]


Frankly neither one, from an accurate historical aspect, sounds too appealing. Oiran were even more formalized and rigidly structured then geisha. It seems the only difference between the two are the social level they catered to and the likelihood of sex.

So perhaps not the pagentry (or all of it, at least. I still like my kimonos and tea ceremonies), but definitely the skills they were trained in. Witty conversation, poetry and writing, theatrical entertainment...These are all things I lean towards anyway.

I've always imagined a sort of combination between the samurai and geisha for a boy. Strong, focused, intelligent, sensetive, loyal and able to serve, entertain and defend all equally well. It's something to be noted that the word samurai literally means "one who serves".

Of course, it's cherry-picking historical realities a little bit (read: a lot), but this is interpersonal relationships and a budding work of fiction, not an academic research paper. I think we can be forgiven for playing around with conventions a little.

Now, to find a pair of geta that will fit my massive gaijin feet.



thetammyjo -> RE: Boy Geishas Reboot! (9/14/2007 2:00:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: aidan

I've always imagined a sort of combination between the samurai and geisha for a boy. Strong, focused, intelligent, sensetive, loyal and able to serve, entertain and defend all equally well. It's something to be noted that the word samurai literally means "one who serves".



That sounds far more interesting to me regardless of if the slave/sub is male or female.

To get all geeky, I saw Marcus on Babylon5 as a great role model for submissive men (or women). He was very much a sort of samurai or solider or knight.



aidan -> RE: Boy Geishas Reboot! (9/14/2007 4:16:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo


quote:

ORIGINAL: aidan

I've always imagined a sort of combination between the samurai and geisha for a boy. Strong, focused, intelligent, sensetive, loyal and able to serve, entertain and defend all equally well. It's something to be noted that the word samurai literally means "one who serves".



That sounds far more interesting to me regardless of if the slave/sub is male or female.

To get all geeky, I saw Marcus on Babylon5 as a great role model for submissive men (or women). He was very much a sort of samurai or solider or knight.


I've never seen an episode of Babylon 5, but Wikipedia helped me out here. Sounds exactly like the kind of guy/sub I'd like to think I am. And that Susan Ivanova...*mmrroow* I'd save myself for her too.

I'd also like one of those molecular compression staff dohickeys...That's got practical weapon and toy applications. :D



Jinger -> RE: Boy Geishas Reboot! (9/14/2007 6:16:35 PM)

I like Firefly...



aidan -> RE: Boy Geishas Reboot! (9/14/2007 10:02:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jinger

I like Firefly...

Hey, there had to be male Companions. And they could kick ass too. Remember Innara fucking up those Reavers with her bow...gun...thingy?

Of course, I'd rather be more of a renegade Companion like her and fly away with a rough-n-tumble outlaw...Though, ya know, preferably more Zoe than Mal. Gods know he's a good looking fella, but I'm not 'sactly sly, if ya kennit.

And I like to think of myself as a Mal like character, so that would mean I'd be shacking up with a female version of me, and...

Dude, my head hurts now.



Jinger -> RE: Boy Geishas Reboot! (9/15/2007 8:38:08 AM)

I would be River's love interest.
Oh yeah.

Didn't see that one coming did you?



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