Serious Question for the ladies

Serious Question for the ladies (Full Version)

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Shadowen -> Serious Question for the ladies (9/14/2007 4:15:34 PM)
Right off the bat let me state that I'm a very opinionated person. Always have been, more than likely always will be. The negative opinions I have I'd like to think area ll backed up by sound judgement and sound reasoning. I could be wrong of course but that's neither here nor there. That being said, I've always had very strong and very negative opinions about all the professionals out there. The opinions I have on them I really won't get into here becuase, lets face it, it probably really would not do anything but get me tarred and feathered and well I have a low pain tolerance and I cry easily. My thoughts on the matter however do change and evolve from time to time and have been thinking on this alot recently, havent a clue why, and then a rather obvious thought hit me, why not ask the people directly involved in it. Now, I really have no problem witha small minority of professional dominants. Very small minority. If you're actually able to get a job doing something that you actually honest to god (goddess/buddha/Krishna/Spaghetti Monster) love, hey I'm all for it. I guess the term would be lifestyle dominant. Which as an aside, the fact that there is actually a term for that is very telling. I got no problem with professionals that actually live what they do outside of work. That being said, and heres the question part sorry it took so long, why is it that none of you speak out against the majority that give you a bad name? Seriously, like it or not, believe it or not, Professional women who are into BDSM and all of its myriad connotations professionally and privately are the vast minority, why is it that all of you seem to (warning rough generalization) rush quickly to defending the very people who make a large percentage of the population percieve you in a bad light. I honestly do not understand it and have been trying to figure this out for quite a while. I mean hell, just look at most of the profiles on this site and their veiled attempts (and not so veiled attempts) at soliciting money from people. I've read these boards for a few years before I even bothered to sign up ( and that was just so I could post a reply to something) and specifically I see on the ask a mistress boards come up frequently enough posts about tribute, and all that other stuff over and over again and I've seen the responses to it and they've all been, in my opinion anyways so feel free to disregard and call me names, overly critical and defensive of anyone not thinking Pro's are the greatest thing int he world. Again, rough generalization. I tend to do that alot. My question is still why. I've seen quite a few postings and writings by some of you that at least to me seem to disagree with alot of what the majority of "Pros" practices are, so again why. Is it like a sisterhood thing? Something like the blue wall of silence. I don't get it. It's like all those people a year or so ago that I was seeing who had claimed to be vietnam veterans with all these medals. It'd be liek all the people who actually went over there and served defending them and attacking anyone who dared say a bad word about them. Is there something I'm missing here? The majority of the posts from you ladies that I've seen here are intelligent, well thought out and speak very clearly that even if you are a Professional, its not just a paycheck. Why arent you insulted, why arent you speaking out against all the 18-20 year olds who actually do see it as a paycheck and nothing more. Why arent you getting angry at all the ones who feed into the stereotype and because of them people automatically with a knee jerk reaction will put you in their same category. Why isnt there this outcry against the people that are in essence pretending to be you and what you are. I mean honestly, I'm sure even some of you have come across the websites out there that offer to teach you how to be a professional right down to handing you a script of what to say and where to shop to have the right look. I don't get it, I really don't and am honeslty not trying to insult or offend or get anyone aggravated or anything like that. I mean, I take it as an offense when people claim military service after all the time I spent in. I take offense to all the one handed typers who claim to be masters too and for the most part actually so does everyone else. SO why doesn't that transfer over to your area. Is it a gender thing, solidarity, defense of your profession. This is actually an honest question and I'm really interested in any and all responses from all you ladies, even if it is telling me I'm wrong (though I'd appreciate it greatly if it wasn't just you're wrong you suck etc etc. At least tell me what in your opinion I'm mistaken about. ) I'm generally interested in this and hope its not just a don't rock the boat kinda thing. And again just to be clear, if you're a professional and it's how you really are in your personal life, I got no problem whatsoever. Just don't understand the lets defend everyone mentality. Course I might be mistaken on that but its what I see.

LotusSong -> RE: Serious Question for the ladies (9/14/2007 4:52:14 PM)
As long as there are those that do not want a committed relationship or want to trial run at submission or quick,available female willing to dominate them for a few hours for a chunka change- they will exist. Want to eradicate them? Quit creating the need for them. (It isn't going to happen) No- there is no blue wall of silence. In fact, I do distance myself from them.

LotusSong -> RE: Serious Question for the ladies (9/14/2007 4:55:57 PM)
And yes, this has been asked a couple times before: Should I See a Pro Domme? RE: Opnions On Pro Domme's and on and on and on.....[image]http://www.collarchat.com/image/latestmsg.gif[/image]

Shadowen -> RE: Serious Question for the ladies (9/14/2007 5:21:00 PM)
Thank you very much. Have actually read most of those thats why I tried to keep alot of my opinions on certain things in check as much as possible. I'm sure all you ladies neither need nor want to get into that whole discussion again and again. I'm not that much of a sadist and quite frankly I'm afraid I'd be severely beaten for bringing something like that up. Should have been more specific, I sometimes get sidetracked and for some reason assume people know what I'm trying to convey. Not wanting to get into the whole supply and demand side as, well when it gets down to it what it boils down to is male hormones and lets face it the vast majority of men stop thinking when the blood rushes from their brains to other places so they do provide a service and theres no denying that by any stretch of the imagination. Am more referring to those that would or should be considered the disreputable ones. Sooo not getting into what I would consider disreuptable. To fragile for that sorta thing.. Maybe it is just a gender thing I'm seeing as you see the same thing for the most part when a submissive woman posts some sort of sob story and is taken at face value, for the most part, and the male is generally demonized. Is why I'm asking though cause I'm generally curious and actually hope to come off with a better sense of things.

LaMistressa -> RE: Serious Question for the ladies (9/14/2007 7:21:38 PM)
Do you drink a lot of coffee or Red Bull before writing? Because you really could pare this down a bit more. You ain't whistling dixie when you say you get sidetracked a bit! [;)]

Shadowen -> RE: Serious Question for the ladies (9/14/2007 7:42:16 PM)
Have an IV strung from my arm to the coffee pot. Slowly trying to get my blood replaced with cafeinne. I apologize if its unreadable to anyone. Just have so many thoughts going through my head at one time that they get jumbled some times.

LotusSong -> RE: Serious Question for the ladies (9/14/2007 7:57:52 PM)
Wait.... Aren't you that hyper delivery guy on MAD TV????

Shadowen -> RE: Serious Question for the ladies (9/14/2007 8:09:27 PM)
That would be my good twin

LotusSong -> RE: Serious Question for the ladies (9/14/2007 8:12:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shadowen That would be my good twin ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh (knowing nod)

AAkasha -> RE: Serious Question for the ladies (9/14/2007 8:14:20 PM)
Can't speak for all, but as a non-pro femdom, I don't care enough to rally against the "quick buck/tribute/kneel now worm, send me $20 to see my pic" fly by night dominas because: 1) I don't "compete" with them - the men who would seek me out seek me out for qualities they don't have and vice versa 2) I know they are a result of supply and demand anyway 3) Any sub I would likely have an interest in is far too intelligent to fall for that kind of scam. It's not worth the time/energy to get upset over. It just doesn't affect me personally. Akasha

Shadowen -> RE: Serious Question for the ladies (9/14/2007 8:23:43 PM)
Oh ok, thank you, that actually makes quite a bit of sense and didn't really think of it that way. So it's more of a non-issue type of thing then. I mean I understand the reasonings behind why they're there just can't or couldn't wrap my head around the other part. Guess it just boils down to how women percieve the situation. Probably why I have such a difficult time understanding the whole thing. Rubiks cubes are easier to understand.

GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Serious Question for the ladies (9/14/2007 8:51:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha Can't speak for all, but as a non-pro femdom, I don't care enough to rally against the "quick buck/tribute/kneel now worm, send me $20 to see my pic" fly by night dominas because: 1) I don't "compete" with them - the men who would seek me out seek me out for qualities they don't have and vice versa 2) I know they are a result of supply and demand anyway 3) Any sub I would likely have an interest in is far too intelligent to fall for that kind of scam. It's not worth the time/energy to get upset over. It just doesn't affect me personally. Akasha Oh...Ditto, ditoo, ditto! Sigh The boys who fall for that crap are the same ones who can't get off their lazy butts and come to a munch. They are hng's who want freebie cam and do nothing but complain when they respond to those silly ads and get all whiney about there being no real Dominas. And as long as they stay behind their computers, they are going to get exactly what they deserve. It's not going to go away, and I haven't the energy to waste on it.

MsSonnetMarwood -> RE: Serious Question for the ladies (9/14/2007 9:09:06 PM)
You know, people do a lot of things that are potentially irritating. Tip 10% at a good restaurant. Drive 10 miles under the speed limit in the fast lane. Talk too loud in the movies. There's no point in getting bent out of shape about it. As far as prodommes go...to be honest, I think the good ones are invaluable. They are frequently the educators, the ones that run munches and other scene events, the ones that introduce a lot of folks to all of this. They've made the choice to be "out" in a way not a lot of us can't be. There's a huge percentage of guys out there that frankly are better off seeing pros, because they really aren't interested in giving what it takes to be in this kind of relationship. As far as the online ones...as mentioned - if there weren't a market for it, then they'd give up pretty quick. Most of the emails I get from male "subs" are offering tribute (when there is no such mention in my profile) or expecting insta-kink. The reality is that if there's folks out there willing to be idiots, there's going to be someone willing to take advantage of them. But beyond that - clearly that kind of interaction works for some people. I think it's a waste of time and energy to get bent out of shape because other people CONSENSUALLY chose to interact in a way that I don't care to. I'm not so arrogant to say that what I need and want in a relationship is what everyone should need and want. I am arrogant enough to think that as adults, you all ought to be able to make smart decisions for yourselves, and suck it up and learn from it when you don't.

Shadowen -> RE: Serious Question for the ladies (9/14/2007 9:32:36 PM)
Really wasnt suggesting rallies or anything like that, though admittedly from a purely male standpoint that might actually be interesting to see. ahem Anyways, thank you again. It actually clears up alot of my curiousity and misunderstanding of the subject. And I'm still alive and in one peice. GoddessDustyGold, you're right they do get what they deserve and frankly probably thins the herd a bit and saves on asprin bills to I would imagine. MsSonnetMarwood, I think that you've actually cleared up one major reason of confusion on my part. The relationship angle. I personally can't see it outside of a relationship context and that's probably why it through me and I didn't see it along those lines. I should have taken the blinders off in that respect but they jsut look so good on me. Very slimming. It does make alot of sense about it being a waste of your time and energy. Social Darwinism kinda thing and I do thank all of you for giving me a little bit of insight into the whole thing. Before I forget, if I offended anyone, not my intention.

softpjOS -> RE: Serious Question for the ladies (9/14/2007 9:40:21 PM)
Another part of the confusion very well may be that you aren't looking at the original post, and what they are responding to..... I'm sure as a fellow lurker you've noticed the number of posts made by subs (majority being male) complaining about the "Pros" and "Tribute" and yadda yadda...... to which the Dommes respond with "don't like it, don't pay". Now this answer may be confused as "acceptance" by the NonPros when in fact it is simply stating the obvious... if ya don't like it...don't do it. doh! pj

iammachine -> RE: Serious Question for the ladies (9/14/2007 9:40:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha Can't speak for all, but as a non-pro femdom, I don't care enough to rally against the "quick buck/tribute/kneel now worm, send me $20 to see my pic" fly by night dominas because: 1) I don't "compete" with them - the men who would seek me out seek me out for qualities they don't have and vice versa 2) I know they are a result of supply and demand anyway 3) Any sub I would likely have an interest in is far too intelligent to fall for that kind of scam. It's not worth the time/energy to get upset over. It just doesn't affect me personally. Akasha Quoted for truth. I'll add, as my own person note, that whereas some people may be opportunistic, there are also those that actually do have a fetish for financial domination. The former irritate me a bit, but really don't effect me and there's no point in getting bent out of shape about something that ain't gonna change especially. Supply and demand and all that. As for the latter, I'm not one to say "your kink is not okay".

RumpusParable -> RE: Serious Question for the ladies (9/14/2007 10:48:56 PM)
Simply put: because they DON'T give me a bad name. There's nothing wrong with what non-lifestyle pro's do. -Nor does what they do indicate anything about, reflect on, or otherwise effect me (other than helping me weed out those ignorant enough to think it does).

BeachMystress -> RE: Serious Question for the ladies (9/15/2007 3:25:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shadowen Is there something I'm missing here? The majority of the posts from you ladies that I've seen here are intelligent, well thought out and speak very clearly that even if you are a Professional, its not just a paycheck Why arent you insulted, why arent you speaking out against all the 18-20 year olds who actually do see it as a paycheck and nothing more. . BDSM has not and will never be a paycheck for me. Gardening has not and will never be a paycheck for me. Why would I resent anyone who did either for just the paycheck? Very few people work just for the joy of work. I doubt accountants go home and cuddle numbers. I'm not going to buy that bag boys go home and pack things for fun. Meter maids don't ticket cars in their off hours; store clerks don't fantasise about ringing people up off the clock; postal workers don't sort and deliver mail because it makes them happy and the person who sold you coffee at the corner store doesn't do it because it satisfies a deep inner need. So why would you hold the profession of proDominatrix up to different standards? quote: ORIGINAL: Shadowen Which as an aside, the fact that there is actually a term for that is very telling. I got no problem with professionals that actually live what they do outside of work. Since the term did not mean what you thought it did, you've made a fallacious assumption. There is no specific or special term for a proDomme who loves what she does, just as there is no special or specific term for a bus driver who loves their job. I have to admit I'm not sure why you are so unhappy about proDomme who Dominate as just a job. Lets talk about you for a moment; would you get up every day and go in to work if they weren't paying you? Would your coworkers? It is a job; an exchange of your services for money. The pro does the exact same thing. If you are unhappy about her not being willing to do her job for free with some people, why aren't you out giving away your skill and talents? And yes, some people love what they do enough to give it away for free.. quick examples Doctors and nurses volunteering at homeless shelters and low income clinics; computer professionals making computers from scratch for all their friends and family. Some proDomme love what they do enough to do it in their off hours. Some would never touch another whip if people quit paying. I see nothing shameful, unethical or wrong in either choice. quote: ORIGINAL: Shadowen I'm sure even some of you have come across the websites out there that offer to teach you how to be a professional right down to handing you a script of what to say and where to shop to have the right look. And what is wrong with job training? You're complaining that these women are besmirching the name of pros everywhere and yet you are unhappy about training programs? I applaud anyone who takes the time to further their education in their chosen field. quote: ORIGINAL: Shadowen If you're actually able to get a job doing something that you actually honest to god (goddess/buddha/Krishna/Spaghetti Monster) love, hey I'm all for it. I guess the term would be lifestyle dominant. Which as an aside, the fact that there is actually a term for that is very telling. I got no problem with professionals that actually live what they do outside of work. A Lifestyle Dominant is one who does NOT do this as a job, but rather lives is as a lifestyle. No money is exchanged between a Lifestyle Domme and her sub as compensation for her Domination of him. The Lifestyle Domme does this for the sheer joy of controlling another person. A Pro Domme can also be a Lifestyle Domme if she does it as her job and also keeps personal subs who do not pay for playing with her. A Dominant who requires monetary tribute is a proDomme even if she doesn't class herself as that. quote: ORIGINAL: Shadowen That being said, and heres the question part sorry it took so long, why is it that none of you speak out against the majority that give you a bad name? Seriously, like it or not, believe it or not, I have spoken out about things that I feel are unethical, non consensual, illegal or dangerous done by pros. I generally don't speak out against anything other than that because they have nothing to do with me any more than they have to do with you if you do not patronize them. I don't see doing a job just to make money unethical. BTW, taking money to beat people isn't in any way unethical to me. Most boxers wouldn't be getting into the ring and beating each other into mush without the monetary compensation. quote: ORIGINAL: Shadowen Professional women who are into BDSM and all of its myriad connotations professionally and privately are the vast minority, why is it that all of you seem to (warning rough generalization) rush quickly to defending the very people who make a large percentage of the population percieve you in a bad light. I honestly do not understand it and have been trying to figure this out for quite a while. Professional Dominatrix are not the minority. They are the majority. The LA area has about 30 pro Domme for every 1 Lifestyle Domme. Bring up Google and search on "new york Dominatrix" and see how many of that result are lifestyle Domme. There are 2,500,000 listings. I'll bet less than 1% of that huge list are Lifestyle only Domme. quote: ORIGINAL: Shadowen I mean hell, just look at most of the profiles on this site and their veiled attempts (and not so veiled attempts) at soliciting money from people. And you think the males are any more honest on this site? A good percentage of the males on here want a Domme to follow their fantasy script -and yet because they've found out that Domme generally aren't looking for that they lie about what they are seeking. I don't see us asking you why you don't speak up against them. As to those who are up front about requiring money and mention it in their profile, if men still wish to write to them it is not my business to tell those men that they are wrong or stupid for wanting that type of relationship. Also, not all of the "proDomme" on this site asking for money are actually even women. It is a free site and scammers come out of the walls. Caveat emptor quote: ORIGINAL: Shadowen I've read ... I see on the ask a mistress boards come up frequently enough posts about tribute, and all that other stuff over and over again and I've seen the responses to it and they've all been, in my opinion any ways overly critical and defensive of anyone not thinking Pro's are the greatest thing int he world Tributes and those who are interested in getting or giving them are not something I'm interested in and I do not read those posts. If you're not interested in those who require or give tribute, why are you reading about them? Oh, and my position on proDomme? If they're ethical, safe, respectable and trustworthy they're a great benifit to the community. They see those males who do not have the time or desire for a full faceted BDSM relationship. Again, the majority of men want to live BDSM as a part time fantasy, keeping it in the bedroom only or want to live out a specific fantasy. Trying to get me to do either of those with them would be using me. I am, personally, highly against men trying to use me. Reputable pros gives those men the option of meeting their needs without having to lie to a woman or use her. And as I am not a pro Domme, it is not my place to judge those who charge unless what they are doing is non consensual, illegal or unsafe. quote: ORIGINAL: Shadowen My question is still why. I've seen quite a few postings and writings by some of you that at least to me seem to disagree with alot of what the majority of "Pros" practices are, so again why. Is it like a sisterhood thing? Something like the blue wall of silence. Personally I've never felt kinship with someone just because they share my sexual orientation. I've no clue about others motivations and reasons but nothing I say has anything to do with "sisterhood." I'm not sure why you feel most people disapprove of the majority of pro's practice. I disapprove of people who lie, cheat and steal. Reputable pros do none of those. quote: ORIGINAL: Shadowen Why arent you getting angry at all the ones who feed into the stereotype and because of them people automatically with a knee jerk reaction will put you in their same category. If people judge me by the actions of others and not the actions of myself, they're not people with whom I'd want to associate.

LadyPact -> RE: Serious Question for the ladies (9/15/2007 4:07:23 AM)
I'm not going to quote everything BeachMystress said, but she's pretty close to the target. One point that stands out in particualr..... If they're ethical, safe, respectable and trustworthy they're a great benifit to the community. They see those males who do not have the time or desire for a full faceted BDSM relationship. Again, the majority of men want to live BDSM as a part time fantasy, keeping it in the bedroom only or want to live out a specific fantasy. The point of this being that there are a signifigant number of people out there who can't live up to what a lot of lifestyle Dommes are looking for. Just ask the number of those who don't take married submissives. (It's just an example. I'm not trying to restart the married submissives debate.) I find a lot of times, lifestyle Dommes have no issue with pro Dommes being around to fill that particular "need". A point that was made in the OP was very specific to the younger, less reputable pro Dommes that are obvious scammers. To be blunt, I'm not sending them My money, so I see very little with what it has to do with Me. If others can't figure out the difference between a legitimate pro Domme and some 20 year old cyber scammer, I'm sorry for them, but I can't save the world. The best I can do is say they learn their lesson, and maybe next time they will get out to the real world and try a different approach next time.

MissMagnolia -> RE: Serious Question for the ladies (9/15/2007 4:20:26 AM)
ProDommes, women who marry for money, prostitutes, men who marry for money, scammers, who cares? It's not affecting you or me. Why would any of us get angry at anyone for doing something that they are OK with? Who are we to judge anyone? Lots of people in this world do lots of different things to get by. Some people work 9-5 for forty years, others don't. If someone chooses to see/send money to a "professional", legit or scammer, that's no ones business but theirs. We all have free choice. No one has a gun to anyones head, do they?

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