D/s Empowerment (Full Version)

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Xploremyworld -> D/s Empowerment (7/17/2005 9:40:33 AM)

I have heard many submissives discuss the ‘gift of submission’ which they offer to a Dominant or a Master/One, etc. I wonder if some submissives or slaves really understand the significance of that gift. It is the ‘gift’ which empowers the Master/Dom’s strength in the relationship. I’ve come to understand it as the essential link in the Power Exchange between the Dom and the sub. The level of empowerment (the gift) which the submissive grants to the Dom is exactly the same as the level of Power which is wielded over the submissive.
So, a Dominant can be ‘weakened,’ should he become involved with a person who is only superficially submissive.
Conversely, a more deeply natural submissive, or a slave would have a potentially very strong Dominant, because they give up total control to him.
A deep, natural submissive with a ‘soft’ Dominant will suffer, because her desire for overt, total control would likely not be met.
The submissive gets back in direct proportion to what is given as ‘the gift.’ That is why it is sometimes said that ‘the submissive controls the submissive.’ I’m curious to know others thoughts on this…



Gemeni -> RE: D/s Empowerment (7/17/2005 9:49:51 AM)

Firstly,I feel that both parties need to be self empowered from the start. Lack of this leads to one or the other trying to draw it from the other. Which then means one person becomes a crutch for the weaker. If one needs to draw strength and power from another individual,you are in the wrong game-seek therapy to get over yourself first.

Degrees of control given and taken are simply personal prefferences beyond that. You find a close match,or you suffer.

And there is no "gift". Only exchanges. Not one gives anything with no expectation of SOME sort of return.



domtimothy46176 -> RE: D/s Empowerment (7/17/2005 9:53:18 AM)

Where, oh where is our favorite threadjerker? This one has been beaten to death.



Gemeni -> RE: D/s Empowerment (7/17/2005 9:57:07 AM)

At least it wasn't sub/slave again Timothy.[:D]



Xploremyworld -> RE: D/s Empowerment (7/17/2005 2:04:59 PM)

Then I'd guess that the only acceptable thread Should be whether or not others have a right to discuss valid BDSM issues which YOU have tired of discussing. Believe it or not, there are those who WANT to address issues that are of no current interest to you. Should this thread be pulled, I'd suggest that it's not about repetitive discussion of lifestyle issues, but because of some inflated sense of control by others. In that case, I'm in the wrong discussion forum, and I'll seek adult conversation elsewhere. BTW, good luck on hawking your Body jewelry and other stuff.



domtimothy46176 -> RE: D/s Empowerment (7/17/2005 2:10:02 PM)

lol, touchy aren't we? threadjerker wasn't a reference to removing the thread, it was in reference to putting up links to other threads that have taken place on the same subject. No need to go all defensive like that. Get a grip, man, it's a freaking message board!
Timothy



mistoferin -> RE: D/s Empowerment (7/17/2005 2:22:21 PM)

quote:

Should this thread be pulled, I'd suggest that it's not about repetitive discussion of lifestyle issues, but because of some inflated sense of control by others.


I believe you misunderstood. "Threadjerker" is a person on the boards here named proudsub who has been nicknamed "threadjerker" because she so graciously provides links to similar threads that have been previously discussed so that a wealth of information and perspectives may be at your fingertips. It does not mean that anyone wished to see this thread pulled.



Xploremyworld -> RE: D/s Empowerment (7/17/2005 4:24:08 PM)

Thanx mistoferin,
As you can see, I am new to these boards (though NOT NEW to English)... It was gracious of you to provide a positive response by way of explanation of terminology. Hopefully, most here are as helpful as you have been.



darkinshadows -> RE: D/s Empowerment (7/17/2005 4:47:49 PM)

Greeting xplore-

There is a search option at the top of the page - you can search issues there to find relvant threads if that helps. You can always restart a thread and post a view.

IMO- the gift of submission doesn't really exist in my reality -

Peace and Love



GoddessDustyGold -> RE: D/s Empowerment (7/17/2005 6:21:04 PM)

I think that for a D/s relationship to succeed, there has to be the process of determining a level of submission, as well as a level of Dominance which will work for both parties. But who determines what is strong and what is weak. It is whatever works for both people.
I will take. The submissive needs to be willing to give what he knows I will take.
But I do not consider it a gift.



Gemeni -> RE: D/s Empowerment (7/17/2005 6:34:27 PM)

I agree totally that it's not so much a gift as an "exchange" GD.

A gift implies no expectations of the one it's given to,except that they enjoy it. How many subs do you know who'd tolerate having that gift put on a shelf and not made use of? I think they'd be yanking it back and seeking another receiver pretty damned quickly.



Xploremyworld -> RE: D/s Empowerment (7/17/2005 9:32:51 PM)

I made reference to the 'gift,' as referenced by many submissives WHO DO CONSIDER their empowerment of the Dominant/Master as such. I'd like to not get off on the tangent of terminology, but rather focus on the fact of the empowering itself. If others prefer 'Power Exchange,' fine.
My thoughts remain: If a submissive is only willing to empower her Dom to a rather limited degree, and the Dom attempts (why he would is another issue) to live within that limited D/s structure, doesn't that effectively weaken his perspectives on ownership? GoddessDustyGold states: 'The submissive needs to be willing to give what he knows I will take.' That is understood. But a Dom/me who accepts a submissive's limited empowerment of Him/Her should expect a diminished return. What I asked was others thoughts about this. Since submissive empowers the Dom, who is controlling who?
I have been in the lifestyle (AND focused on D/s relationships) for about eight years. I know my strengths and I don't yield to those who would top from the bottom (Yes, that's another tangent).
Thanks for all the input.



mistoferin -> RE: D/s Empowerment (7/17/2005 10:02:16 PM)

quote:

So, a Dominant can be ‘weakened,’ should he become involved with a person who is only superficially submissive.


I don't think that I agree with this. I don't believe that someone who is "superficially submissive" can diminish the power of a Dominant if dominance is his nature. I think that if a Dominant is weakened by a submissive it is most likely due to his own failure to assume control. If the situation is such that the submissive refuses to relinquish it, I would then say that Dominant has to decide if this is truly the right submissive for him.

quote:

Conversely, a more deeply natural submissive, or a slave would have a potentially very strong Dominant, because they give up total control to him.


I am what I consider to be a deeply natural submissive. I don't think that the strength of the Dominant is dependent upon this however. It really depends upon the strength of the relationship between the individuals and the level of trust that is established. A submissive can only relinquish the control that the Dominant is willing to take and ready to assume the responsibility of accepting.

quote:

A deep, natural submissive with a ‘soft’ Dominant will suffer, because her desire for overt, total control would likely not be met.


I agree here, although I am not certain how you perceive the term "soft" Dominant. To me it is a Dominant who is uncertain of his dominance, has not yet fully come to terms with it, or is in a position where he is not ready to assume the responsibility of the role.



darkinshadows -> RE: D/s Empowerment (7/18/2005 1:51:59 AM)

I would think that it depends upon whether the dominant accepts a relationship within the structure as it is set up or not. In a way - in such a relationship - I would say it sounds alot like 'topping from below' when a dominant accepts only certain amount of control to exert, if that isn't exactly what he/she wants. But if the relationship sits happily with both and a submissive having a certain amount of control(not sure if thats a good word to use) then more power to the couple, I would say.

'soft' dominant is a bit like using the terms 'real' or 'true' - everyones perception of a dominant is different. But I do believe that if a dominant accepts the role over a submissive in a limited way in which he is not happy, then in essence they is letting down the submissive as well as themself and it just doesn't allow the relationship to grow and flourish, so it most likely would be doomed to failiure anyway. Any relationship - be it BDSM or any other kind is meant to grow and age and change and do all the things a child does as it get older. If it doesn't it can become stagnant and often, dangerous, with certain risks to people on the outside of the relationship as well.

Peace and Love



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: D/s Empowerment (7/18/2005 5:21:16 AM)

I like what Dark had to say on this and will simply add that the Owner is powerful whether I'm in his life or not. I can either accept to be in his life and serve as he desires or not be in his life.

I do not empower the dominant in any sense except transferring my authority to him. If I choose not to do that...it would be I who would be losing out.



mossy -> RE: D/s Empowerment (7/18/2005 5:43:23 AM)

quote: Xplore

A deep, natural submissive with a ‘soft’ Dominant will suffer, because her desire for overt, total control would likely not be met.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
i agree with :mistoferin: here and her thoughts. my thoughts are below.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Working with a Dominant not yet fully experienced enough, or somehow lacks/
for me or in general an intuitive spirit. A Dominant without spiritual appreciation, for where my submission comes from? Cannot meet my needs. Therefore His control over me is very limited. Because He cannot see inside me to determine what moves me.



MsKyln -> RE: D/s Empowerment (7/18/2005 6:06:49 AM)

dark angel ... I couldn't agree more.

As well, I don't enter into a "power exchange relationship with anyone who tells me I must remain within their view of what is and is not acceptable. On the other hand, I don't enter into any relationship without a high level of trust . I want a power exchange ... not a power struggle.

Ms K

quote:

Any relationship - be it BDSM or any other kind is meant to grow and age and change and do all the things a child does as it get older. If it doesn't it can become stagnant and often, dangerous, with certain risks to people on the outside of the relationship as well.



GoddessDustyGold -> RE: D/s Empowerment (7/18/2005 4:48:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Xploremyworld

My thoughts remain: If a submissive is only willing to empower her Dom to a rather limited degree, and the Dom attempts (why he would is another issue) to live within that limited D/s structure, doesn't that effectively weaken his perspectives on ownership? GoddessDustyGold states: 'The submissive needs to be willing to give what he knows I will take.' That is understood. But a Dom/me who accepts a submissive's limited empowerment of Him/Her should expect a diminished return. What I asked was others thoughts about this. Since submissive empowers the Dom, who is controlling who?


I seek slaves, so this is the way it works for Me. Both parties are in control until such time as an actual relationship (contract with Me) is entered into. After that I am in control. It is very important to make sure that everything is clearly communicated before this begins. At least with Me it is. I have had a lot of boys who try to convince Me otherwise. They are not living with Me.
Having a slave is not easy. It is a lot of responsibility. I don't need the additional grief of compromising My own needs and wants, just so I have a boy. I want the right boy.
Each person has to make up their own mind. If you don't make sure that the level of dominance matches to level of submission, then one is doomed to jump from relationship to relationship.
BTW, I disagree that "topping from below" is a different tangent. I think that not having a crystal clear understanding up front of who is in control invites the topping from the bottom aspects. It's probably going to happen anyway. I have yet to meet a boy who did not try it. It is up to the Dominant to stop that behavior in its tracks. And it is up to both to be honest and open in their communications so that there isn't a serious misunderstandng later. I am talking about a deal-breaking, end of the relationship misunderstanding.
I am not open to re-negotiation at a submissive's whim. I am open to flexibility depending on a submissive's personal situation at any given time. If what I offer is not enough, it is not a match. If what I want and need is too much, it is not a match. Pretty simple for Me.



Xploremyworld -> RE: D/s Empowerment (7/18/2005 8:08:24 PM)

Very well said. And that's the kind of discussion I was interested in. Most of us (should) have minimum standards to which submissives/slaves are required (not just expected) to adhere to. But, even sub/slaves also have expectations of their would-be Dom/me/Master/Mistress. And as your post makes clear, even a slave wants the best possible situation for themselves, even if what they want is abuse. It's human nature, after all. Discussions (frankly, it's negotiations) prior to entering into a contract or relationship must make it clear where the lines are. And sometimes, the 'line' drawn can give a sub/slave the 'upper hand.'



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