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RE: Arctic Ice Melt Opens Northwest Passage - 9/16/2007 8:11:31 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Canada ought to stand up and fight for its land!

after all internations waters do not start to 200 miles out.

We gave away teh Panama canal. so this issue reaks of one thing.


rare metals.      im embarrassed for bush even claiming it is international.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
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RE: Arctic Ice Melt Opens Northwest Passage - 9/16/2007 9:02:17 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Fargle...
There is no way that we can reduce the planet's temperature.


That's defeatist talk, which only encourages the enemy.

Who said anything about Conservation. Lets say that atmospheric carbon contributes significantly to the temperature rise, than shouldn't we have spent resources confirming this, AND DEVELOPING STRATEGIES to manipulate it?

Some have suggested that simply dumping LARGE quantities of iron filings in the ocean could sequester that much Carbon.

Basic research tells us what questions are relevant. We're not funding that Basic Research.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to cyberdude611)
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RE: Arctic Ice Melt Opens Northwest Passage - 9/16/2007 10:33:48 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		Of course we could lower the temperature if we wanted to.  But what temperature is it supposed to be, and what would be the unintended consquences(there are always unintended conaequences adn by defininton you don't know what they will be.  The warming is benefiting many regions of the globe, and hurting others.  The idea that the planet will become like the movie Waterworld is nonsense.  The idea that mankind will be eliminated is also.  This does not mean pollution is good and not a problem.  And Lam, an asteroid or super volcano could start a new Ice Age, at literally any moment with close to zero warning, bringing the glaciers back in a few decades.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
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RE: Arctic Ice Melt Opens Northwest Passage - 9/16/2007 10:35:29 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		farg where in the Constitution does is specifically empower the Feds to pay for Global Climate research?

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RE: Arctic Ice Melt Opens Northwest Passage - 9/16/2007 11:12:37 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Ah not to worry, the "U.N." will save us.

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RE: Arctic Ice Melt Opens Northwest Passage - 9/16/2007 11:25:04 PM   
ChainsandFreedom


Posts: 222
Joined: 6/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Fargle...
There is no way that we can reduce the planet's temperature. The Sun is going through a very hot period that will peak in 2012 (according to NASA). So like it or not, we are going to keep getting hotter at least through 2012 no matter what we do. It is right now hot enough that the ice caps on Mars is now starting to melt. There is nothing to research as far as that is concerned... We can't control the Sun's output. And if the ice is melting on Mars, Is it not logical to assume that it is possible that since we are closer to the sun that it just might be part of the reason why our ice caps are melting and why our temperature keeps rising?

I mean if the sun continues to throw more radiation and heat in our direction, we are going to warm up. And no amount of conservation will stop it.


To allay your fears, cyberdude:

Mars has a lousy atmosphere and earth has a good one. By preserving our atmosphere, the sun wont affect us as much as it affects Mars. Solar radiation exists. Thats why complex life evolved under an Ozone and not on mars. Now why not do what we can to protect that Ozone and get rid of all that nasty, sun-absorbing carbon?

Human causes are turning our atmosphere into something lousy like mars. So by using Mars as an example and the sun as a scapegoat, your basically giving us the same fate you claim mars is having.

Frozen water evaporating into the Martian atmosphere, temp rises on mars, do you have a source? ANY source?

Okay, so you don't agree with the overwhelming scientific majority about humans being the primary/a major source for climate change. Whatever. Our loss because the world let people like you make desicions and buy Hummers.

But you're going to use something as newly discovered and 'unproven' as frozen water on mars to back up your stance? You can't trust brand new theoretical observations enough to take h2o on mars for granted, and then not trust like 99% scientific consensus about human-caused climate change.

It doesnt work like that. You can't pick and choose your scientific faith (as I see no evidence of scientific reason in your post). Either your a specialist and you know something about martian hydrology/Terrestial climate change 
that hasnt been published yet, or your just grasping at junk-science straws to explain why climate problems are out of everyones hands and we don't have to worry about them.

SO, where the hell are you getting this from, anyway? We've only JUST found plausable reasons to believe theres frozen water under the surface of mars-where's the big headlines about newly liquified water (which would evaporate in the martian atmosphere anyway)?

Where are you even getting your data that mars is heating up?

And why do you think we shouldn't worry about climate change just because we wont see results before 2012? We wont even see most of the symptoms before then...

< Message edited by ChainsandFreedom -- 9/16/2007 11:33:30 PM >

(in reply to cyberdude611)
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RE: Arctic Ice Melt Opens Northwest Passage - 9/16/2007 11:58:21 PM   
ChainsandFreedom


Posts: 222
Joined: 6/20/2007
Status: offline 		FANGS:

Most people are concerned about climate change because a lot of smart people whose professional job it is have shown us cause to be concerned.

I was just wondering, do you have a reson to reject the consensus of the vast majority of scientists and not reject a minority of people who say what you do? Are you some sort of expert in volcanics, or do you have some other rational reason to reject the majority of specialists in favor of a minority?

Some people say climate change isn't caused by humans. But the majority of people who know what their talking about say it is-why are you ignoring the majority and latching on to the minority? either reject science or don't. Or tell us some reasons why the minority is somehow more credible than the majority.

Climate change is an ecological action and it demands a biological reaction on the part of human beings. It's physics, not politics. You can't deny climate change for a few decades, then slowly admit its happening but argue about the cause and solution for a few more, dragging your feet and looking for a 'comprimise' position in the end. When an enviroment changes, a species either reacts or dwindles or dies off. So if you really believe we're not causing climate change, how about trying to keep the earth livable anyway?



(in reply to FangsNfeet)
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RE: Arctic Ice Melt Opens Northwest Passage - 9/17/2007 3:52:37 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
Lets say that atmospheric carbon contributes significantly to the temperature rise, than shouldn't we have spent resources confirming this, AND DEVELOPING STRATEGIES to manipulate it?
That usually conflicts with one of the laws of thermodynamics: entropy will increase. By analogy: attempting to cool the Sahara by putting a refrigerator there and opening its door will as a consequence result in the Sahara not cooling down, but getting hotter.
 
The only responsible, humane and efficient way to reduce the impact of the human population on the planet is to reduce the population by a variety of fair birth control measures.

< Message edited by Rule -- 9/17/2007 4:49:15 AM >

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: Arctic Ice Melt Opens Northwest Passage - 9/17/2007 6:04:42 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

farg where in the Constitution does is specifically empower the Feds to pay for Global Climate research?


Good Point.

I suppose ALL politicians should just STFU.



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 9/17/2007 6:05:45 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to luckydog1)
Profile   Post #: 29
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