RE: No Limits: How far would you go?

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Aswad -> RE: No Limits: How far would you go? (9/18/2007 6:46:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: camille65 Why do you feel the need to be so dismissive? Presumably, he's never been willing to sacrifice himself for love, or is just jealous. Either that, or he's never encountered a dynamic of that sort. A lot of people think it's all play-acting. Whatever works for them... Health, al-Aswad.

Rover -> RE: No Limits: How far would you go? (9/18/2007 6:50:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad quote: ORIGINAL: camille65 Why do you feel the need to be so dismissive? Presumably, he's never been willing to sacrifice himself for love, or is just jealous. Either that, or he's never encountered a dynamic of that sort. A lot of people think it's all play-acting. Whatever works for them... Health, al-Aswad. Maybe it's something really simple like I don't believe a whit of it. Methinks you've done too much presuming of facts which are not in evidence. John

Aswad -> RE: No Limits: How far would you go? (9/18/2007 7:09:31 PM)
~fr~ A lot of people are confused over limits. This is because of fuzzy terminology. I've offered a more precise alternative in the past, and although I don't expect people to adopt it, I will still point out that we would not see a thread with no progress in 241 posts if people had done so, and people would have a better idea of what they mean, i.e. communication would be easier. Vaguely hoping it will at least serve to clarify things, I will restate the terms and their meanings here: Personal limits - These refer to what people are unwilling or unable to comply with (hard), or what they will find very difficult to comply with (soft). Most, if not all, people will have one or more things that they will at least find difficult to comply with, and the laws of physics and limits of biology are hard limits for us all, so no need for snide remarks. Relationship limits - These refer to the scope of the consent given, which means that crossing these lines will constitute a revocation of consent, effective immediately. It says nothing about what these things mean to the sub, merely what the sub has consented to the dominant doing. For slaves, it would be more appropriate to call these easements, as that is the term used in property law, but few distinguish between sub and slave here, so I'll not comment further on that. There are things that are personal limits for nephandi, that are still within the scope of her consent. I would personally be wary in crossing her personal limits in most, if not all, circumstances, but she has given consent to for me to cross them as I wish. This is not just a matter of trust, but a matter of the reality of power exchange, that force can and will be used at times, and rightly so. There are, however, a few relationship limits, presently that of intentional injuries of a permanent nature (including mental injury and, obviously, death) and intentionally making her violate her morality. Not that I am inclined to do so, but these are the things we've specifically listed, and they are in part extensions of a promise I made before we discovered our mutual interest in M/s. I have never encountered anyone whose hard personal limits have not included one or more of my kinks, and I do not expect to ever do so, either. But I have encountered those whose relationship limits have permitted them all, and not just because they trust that they will not have to rely on such limits to protect them. While I've not met them in person, I would say daddysprop and BeingChewsie both fit that definition, according to what they say, in that they both have personal limits, but neither has relationship limits, and their owners will enforce compliance if necessary. That deserves respect, not ridicule, in my book. Health, al-Aswad.

Aswad -> RE: No Limits: How far would you go? (9/18/2007 7:15:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rover Maybe it's something really simple like I don't believe a whit of it. Methinks, then, that the "either that, or [...]" clause comes into effect. As for what facts are in evidence, speak for yourself. But I needn't convince you; you are probably happy with what you've got. Which is all good. In any case, you've stated your disbelief, and that's fine with me. Let's leave it at that; no need to repeat what either of us have said. Health, al-Aswad.

Rover -> RE: No Limits: How far would you go? (9/18/2007 7:16:45 PM)
1. Compatibility also does not result in the cessation of the existence of limits. 2. You obviously have not been reading very closely some of the claims being made here, particularly from daddysprop. John

Rover -> RE: No Limits: How far would you go? (9/18/2007 7:18:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad quote: ORIGINAL: Rover Maybe it's something really simple like I don't believe a whit of it. Methinks, then, that the "either that, or [...]" clause comes into effect. As for what facts are in evidence, speak for yourself. But I needn't convince you; you are probably happy with what you've got. Which is all good. In any case, you've stated your disbelief, and that's fine with me. Let's leave it at that; no need to repeat what either of us have said. Health, al-Aswad. I'll add another "either that or" for you. Either that or it doesn't exist. Selective omission on your part. John

Aswad -> RE: No Limits: How far would you go? (9/18/2007 7:48:54 PM)
No, it was not an omission, I was addressing the reasons for your dismissal, and barring personal knowledge of every sub and slave on earth, you cannot rationally claim that as an option. And if you did, you would certainly not claim it, which is all I will comment on that here. Apart from that, quit being pointlessly argumentative, will you? [:D] As for the other post, correct, compatibility does not imply cessation of limits of either sort, it merely makes them irrelevant. As for daddysprop, I am familiar with the claims, and have no reason to dismiss them, as alluded to above. Health, al-Aswad.

YourhandMyAss -> RE: No Limits: How far would you go? (9/18/2007 8:32:27 PM)
And somewhere out there, there's probably slaves that would do anything the dom said, in that, fill in the blank. There's already been one slave here saying she'd do anything her master said, anything, even jump off a cliff if he said to. So there for she's said she'd never say no to him quote: ORIGINAL: pearlmoongirl Well said, velvetears. There are too many things that could be put into that ugly blank that are illegal or unethical - not to mention many things that could kill or seriously injure.

NControlofU -> RE: No Limits: How far would you go? (9/18/2007 8:38:40 PM)
It's easy for someone to say they would do anything for someone else. Let's just hope that we never learn she had to follow-through on it and actually take that leap of faith literally. quote: ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss And somewhere out there, there's probably slaves that would do anything the dom said, in that, fill in the blank. There's already been one slave here saying she'd do anything her master said, anything, even jump off a cliff if he said to. So there for she's said she'd never say no to him quote: ORIGINAL: pearlmoongirl Well said, velvetears. There are too many things that could be put into that ugly blank that are illegal or unethical - not to mention many things that could kill or seriously injure.

slavegirljoy -> RE: No Limits: How far would you go? (9/18/2007 10:58:53 PM)
While i have never labeled myself as "no limits", i also have never limited my Master or any former Dom or my former husband to what they could or couldn't do with me or to me. i have also never been involved with a crazy man or a maniac. As a masochist, i have always been attracted to sadists but, they have all been intelligent, understanding, reasonable, and responsible sadists, who never showed an interest or desire in exerting their power over me to the nth degree or in mutilating or permanently harming their sub/slave. Any talk of limits, needs to be put in some sort of perspective, i believe, because there are lots of different types of things that have limits. There are financial limits. i have a fixed income so, i am limited in how much i can spend each month. There are physical limits. As a right leg amputee, i am limited in how fast and how far i can walk and am unable to run. There are legal limits. i don't have a driver's license so, i am limited in not being able to drive a car legally. There are cognitive limits. i have no knowledge of quantum physics so, i am limited in not being able to have a meaningful discussion on that topic. There are spiritual limits. i am a Christian so, i am limited in following only what i believe to be the tenets of my faith. Within BDSM, i have yet to discover my limits. They probably exist but, i'm still exploring that possibility with my Master, who enjoys taking me as far as He can and He always stops before i even come close to wanting Him to. So, to me, using the term "no limits", is just too broad. i believe it needs to be more specific than that. slave joyOwned property of Master David________________________________________________________________"Grow beyond your circumstances and realize your greatest possibilities." quote: ORIGINAL: UR2Badored If you consider yourself to be or are looking for a "No Limits" bottom. What exactly does that mean to you? Does anyone really believe, in the literal, sense that they have no limits whatsoever? How do you define "no limits"? (I would appreciate opinions and views from anyone on this matter)

slaveofKaos -> RE: No Limits: How far would you go? (9/19/2007 2:08:31 AM)
I am no limits, but to me that means that I only have the limits my Master allows me to have. I look for a Master that I am compatible with just like I would in any relationship and that goes for limits as well. If I had a Master that told me to jump off a bridge where the fall would hurt me badly or kill me I certianly would not do it, and anyone that says they would is in my opinion lying or there is something wrong with them. I also dont believe that finding a Master i'm compatible with, one who has limits that are to my liking as well makes me any less of a slave, and it irratates me that people say that (I'm not talking about anyone who commented here but I have heard people in the past say things like that.)

missturbation -> RE: No Limits: How far would you go? (9/19/2007 4:50:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rover quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 quote: ORIGINAL: Rover Fast Reply.... Again I state that many of you are taking serious what is, to say the least, not serious. Somehow people are more prone to do so on the internet (there are studies in support of this phenomena). John how exactly is it not serious? Because it's simply not believable. I'll believe that you'd willingly walk off a cliff to your death at your Master's order when I read your obituary. Until then, it's just online drivel. Please stand in the corner with the ancient European houses of 1,000 year lineage. John I've had some really good discussions with Daddysprop in my time here and whilst we have certainly disagreed along the way i believe she would do whatever her Master tells her too. If that involved her jumping off a cliff i at this moment knowing what i know of her truely believe she would comply with her wishes. In my opinion i think your dismissal of her shows an awful lot of disrespect for her and her Master and i believe that her loyalty, trust and devotion to her Master deserve the upmost respect. Yes you can believe what you like but to outright claim shes lieing to me is bang out of order. ************************************************************** I personally have placed no limits on my relationship with Sir. I trust him implicitly not to do anything that would cause me permanent harm in any way. I trust him implicitly that he would not ask me to do anything i was not ready to do. Should he ask me to do something i fedlt i was not ready for i would comply trusting in his judgement of my ability to handle it. For me placing no limits is just showing how much i trust my Sir. In my opinion if you have to place limits on a long term relationship in BDSM you are showing a lack of trust in your partner. If you havent got trust, what have you got?

Rover -> RE: No Limits: How far would you go? (9/19/2007 4:56:50 AM)
You're right, I don't respect her or what she has to say. And in return I suggest that you equate the exchange of emails and chats with "knowing" someone when in truth all you know is what they tell you... right or wrong, fact or fiction, complete or partial. Many people develop complex online personas that bear no resemblance to their offline lives. They only last as long as there are a sufficient number of enablers. John

missturbation -> RE: No Limits: How far would you go? (9/19/2007 5:09:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rover You're right, I don't respect her or what she has to say. And in return I suggest that you equate the exchange of emails and chats with "knowing" someone when in truth all you know is what they tell you... right or wrong, fact or fiction, complete or partial. Many people develop complex online personas that bear no resemblance to their offline lives. They only last as long as there are a sufficient number of enablers. John Ok you are entitled to your opinion but who are you to call her a liar? You know nothing of her other than what you have read here. If we all used your philosophy we would never believe a word a person says here. Whatever happened to politely saying well i dont know you daddysprop but im pretty sure if push came to shove (excuse the pun) you would not jump off the cliff. Why did you have to be so downright rude and dismissive of other peoples life CHOICES?

Rover -> RE: No Limits: How far would you go? (9/19/2007 5:28:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation Ok you are entitled to your opinion but who are you to call her a liar? My opinion is that she's a liar (not about everything, but certainly about things like willingly jumping off a cliff to her death at her Master's behest), and I expressed it. Or are you saying that I'm entitled to my opinion, but not to express it? *quote:* You know nothing of her other than what you have read here. Then neither of us has any first-hand knowledge and must draw our conclusions based upon experience and common sense. If it seems plausible to you, great. It's not plausible to me. *quote:* If we all used your philosophy we would never believe a word a person says here. We all do use my philosophy in that we decide for ourselves what we do and don't believe. Not everything exceeds the bounds of credulity. I am likely to believe that someone traveled to Pheonix. I am not likely to believe that they traveled to Uranus. I'm likely to believe that someone had a hole-in-one in a single round of golf. I'm not likely to believe that they had 18 hole-in-ones in a single round of golf. See how that works? *quote:* Whatever happened to politely saying well i dont know you daddysprop but im pretty sure if push came to shove (excuse the pun) you would not jump off the cliff. I was not rude, did not call her or her momma any names, or cast aspersions upon her lineage. I was direct. There is a difference. *quote:* Why did you have to be so downright rude and dismissive of other peoples life CHOICES? I was not rude or dismissive of other people's lifestyle choices. I was dismissive about someone's specious factual claim. That is a significant difference as well. John

camille65 -> RE: No Limits: How far would you go? (9/19/2007 5:30:14 AM)
So everyone should discount all your words because you are on the internet.

missturbation -> RE: No Limits: How far would you go? (9/19/2007 5:38:43 AM)
I have been reading this thread along the way and have not felt compelled to reply to it up until now for various reasons which don't really matter. Our opinions on anything are personal and always valid yep. You are entitles to express them too yep. However i do feel opinions dont have to be expressed rudely or by calling someone a liar in the way you did. Rudeness does not lie in name calling alone. Its the way you address someone, how you say / type things. Now allowing for misreading of typed words i still personally find you extremely rude. And now im done.

Rover -> RE: No Limits: How far would you go? (9/19/2007 5:50:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: camille65 So everyone should discount all your words because you are on the internet. They should discount anything I say (or anyone else says) if they are not believable. John

Bobkgin -> RE: No Limits: How far would you go? (9/19/2007 6:58:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rover quote: ORIGINAL: camille65 So everyone should discount all your words because you are on the internet. They should discount anything I say (or anyone else says) if they are not believable. John And since you seem to be collarme's self-appointed 'official authority' on what's "believable", I guess that means everyone can believe what you say, huh? "Oh John. It's the big bad internets and I'm all alone. Please tell me what is believable because I really don't know how to think for myself." Where would they be without you, John?

MstrssPassion -> RE: No Limits: How far would you go? (9/19/2007 7:10:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UR2Badored How do you define "no limits"? (I would appreciate opinions and views from anyone on this matter) There are always limits... there referred to as the law. You ever want to test that theory then go right ahead... play it to the hilt & when the judge asks you, "Do you have anything to say before I pass sentence?" Just see how, well this statement is received. "We negotiated a NO LIMITS scene" (ok, I didn't read the whole thread because I definitely don't see where No Limits would warrent a 13 page discussion)

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