RE: Subs Insecurity

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RRafe -> RE: Subs Insecurity (9/16/2007 10:38:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: murmur I'm wondering what you meant by an organic model as a relationship? Just curious. It's more about chemistry than roles. Our organic natures as animals dictates how we interact to a great degree. I prefer to get to know someone without unweildy expectations-and see where it goes. My relationships are based on mutual pleasure in each other-at many different levels. I find roles inhibit that. So I don't follow that model.

RRafe -> RE: Subs Insecurity (9/16/2007 10:40:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: servantheart quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 Fear of losing the relationship inspires us to work on and grow the relationship. I agree. People have to work in order to not take each other for granted, for when they do, complacency sets in and that's when they're most likely to lose what they have. Fear of loss is a sucky way to conduct an intimate relationship. I prefer to focus on gain.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Subs Insecurity (9/16/2007 11:05:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe quote: ORIGINAL: servantheart quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 Fear of losing the relationship inspires us to work on and grow the relationship. I agree. People have to work in order to not take each other for granted, for when they do, complacency sets in and that's when they're most likely to lose what they have. Fear of loss is a sucky way to conduct an intimate relationship. I prefer to focus on gain. I agree with both. Fear of loss puts value on what we have. Desire for gain puts value on what is yet to come.

heartcream -> RE: Subs Insecurity (9/17/2007 12:55:24 AM)
great thread, a lot of good information and observations here. earthy couple i enjoyed your post and whoa love the new pic, i must say. you look so sweet, compelling and sexy, well done. insecurity is connected to fear and other intense emotions i dont believe you need to need to pretend you dont feel. i can 'know' people love me but i dont always feel it. in that place i can choose to get help with the pain, i may reach out to someone i have trust for. they may not be home, it may not be a good time, or they may say something/give me some reflection i would rather not hear/have. i want and desire to be that for folks i love too. i wouldnt mind if a friend called me up and said. "i am losin it. i am full of anxiety about this that an the other." i would hope to tell them things they would say to me as well, "i love you. it is okay to love yourself. dont believe anymore that you deserve punishment, or sacrifice of who you are. take a bath. breath. tell me all about it." yes i am responsible but others/literature/music/art etc help me tremendously. as i learn how to guide my insecurities back to a warmer more accepting space i get better at doing it all alone.

leatherette -> RE: Subs Insecurity (9/18/2007 6:40:44 PM)
I think it can be a little bit of a tangle - if only for lack or misunderstanding of words. Human beings = Masters and slaves. The "title" becomes all too important, to the point of over shadowing the truth - of the actual dynamic. The authority, natural dynamic that can exist, grow and be wonderful. The words....maybe I am becoming "vanilla" as in vocabulary preference ( but never in kink) Most of us agree that slaves need be responsible adults, same as masters. Both grounded whole individuals who strive to learn, grow - to self-actualize ( a never ending process) and are capable of sharing - that mutual joy. Now my point is: insecurity is something to manage and keep down. But - does decent self esteem ever become confused with lack of humility? Should a slave be self effacing? Or proud ( though modest) of accomplishments "worth"? -- Sure..all is subjective,-- but I wonder where people stand. Curious... thanks, leatherette

SirCache -> RE: Subs Insecurity (9/18/2007 7:54:33 PM)
Insecurity happens, I usually don't pay it any particular attention because for me it comes down to only a couple of different reasons: Either I am concerned that someone's word is not, in fact true; or I am uncertain that my own capabilities with a particular activity are not up to the task at hand. If I make a mistake with an activity, I make a mistake. Very rarely does anyone do everything right without fail. The secret is to go with your best foot forward and take ownership of it. If you screw up, admit to it, and move on. You can't be insecure if you own the emotion. When it comes to other people... it's much harder. The only way to deal with it is to place trust in those you associate with on a deeply personal level and give them the benefit of the doubt. If they are trying to hurt you, it is still beyond your control, so you can only take ownership of what you do after you find out. I know in my case, reaching that deeply personal level takes some time. I can't just trust someone implicitly from the get-go. Everything else? I don't know. Relating from experience, those are the only two areas where I have felt any insecurity. But it can happen irrationally, come on, we're all human beings and sometimes the brain makes weird connections that just don't make sense. Just explain it to those whom you care about, and let it go.

RRafe -> RE: Subs Insecurity (9/18/2007 8:11:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leatherette I think it can be a little bit of a tangle - if only for lack or misunderstanding of words. Human beings = Masters and slaves. The "title" becomes all too important, to the point of over shadowing the truth - of the actual dynamic. The authority, natural dynamic that can exist, grow and be wonderful. The words....maybe I am becoming "vanilla" as in vocabulary preference ( but never in kink) Most of us agree that slaves need be responsible adults, same as masters. Both grounded whole individuals who strive to learn, grow - to self-actualize ( a never ending process) and are capable of sharing - that mutual joy. Now my point is: insecurity is something to manage and keep down. But - does decent self esteem ever become confused with lack of humility? Should a slave be self effacing? Or proud ( though modest) of accomplishments "worth"? -- Sure..all is subjective,-- but I wonder where people stand. Curious... thanks, leatherette Well........one needs to have a firm grasp on reality. Such as the need to accept consequences for one's actions-or inactions. I notice a lot of blame shifting in those describing the "d/s dynamic" Usually onto the shoulders of the Top. Naturally-this is going to attract weak and dependent individuals who seek enablement. The curious thing about it is that the fantasy is so strong that the one seeking to be dependent totally fails to see behind the mask of insecurity that the object of desire sometimes wears. Instead of seeing obvious warning signs of the inability to fill the role intended--these are discarded in favor of fullfilling the fantasy model. So what happens, is a joining of two rather weak, codependent people-neither of which is strong enough to keep the other going. The train wrecks and finger pointing soon follow,as the relationship disintegrates. This is one reason that I keep stressing the need to enter into one's fantasies AFTER careful examination of one's ones motivations, strengths, and weaknesses. I know it's unpopular-but I'll keep doing it anyhow. We are NOT just "roles"... we happen to be people first-no matter how much it's dressed up in the fantasy of an ideal lifestyle. Do your homework first-then indulge-not the other way round.

leatherette -> RE: Subs Insecurity (9/19/2007 6:44:10 AM)
Yes - insecurity can mean different things, it seems. I myself was speaking of security/insecurity as a person - as in growth and self confidence vs. the difference or danger involved in attempting to seek perfection and where that links to narcissism. Different than issues of jealousy, as some spoke of in this thread. I had a point where I was overly concerned and impressed with roles - it did screw things up. BTW - in a way it is harder to be ones "true" self - but I find no other alternative. I can't avoid being a freak. Besides it works better anyway and it is not contradictory to my "role" or nature. It enhances individuality. I "don't try" now.. Maybe I'll start a thread on the topic of "perfection" and humility and narcissicm as it relates to submissive types. ( another good one would be where that variance enriches or disables others or both together) Thanks OP and everyone :-)

RRafe -> RE: Subs Insecurity (9/19/2007 7:25:15 AM)
But there's a definite link between narccisim and insecurity. Look at it this way-the sub thinks she's going to be assimilated into the master (stupid, I know, but that's the conceit.) The master is perfect-so the sub will be perfect as well. One morning the master farts in bed-her world is shattered.[:D]

adoracat -> RE: Subs Insecurity (9/19/2007 9:19:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe But there's a definite link between narccisim and insecurity. Look at it this way-the sub thinks she's going to be assimilated into the master (stupid, I know, but that's the conceit.) The master is perfect-so the sub will be perfect as well. One morning the master farts in bed-her world is shattered.[:D] then he MUST not be a Twue Master! dont we all know they are full of hot air and NEVER let it escape? kitten, who is really glad Sir never reads the forums....

RRafe -> RE: Subs Insecurity (9/19/2007 9:27:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: adoracat quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe But there's a definite link between narccisim and insecurity. Look at it this way-the sub thinks she's going to be assimilated into the master (stupid, I know, but that's the conceit.) The master is perfect-so the sub will be perfect as well. One morning the master farts in bed-her world is shattered.[:D] then he MUST not be a Twue Master! dont we all know they are full of hot air and NEVER let it escape? kitten, who is really glad Sir never reads the forums.... Coughs.......didn't they blame ufo's on swamp gas too?

VaWolf -> RE: Subs Insecurity (9/21/2007 9:05:13 AM)
I believe that insecurity has nothing to do with being submissive or dominant but that it operates much like a conscience, it drives you to be better. Conscience drives you to be a better person, insecurity I think is a fear that you may lose your lover, sub, Dom, wife, husband, or significant other and drives you to be better by them. I would recommend talking to them about your fears, our imaginations can be cruel things and what you may fear may be nothing.

SultrySub4M -> RE: Subs Insecurity (9/21/2007 10:01:31 AM)
My thoughts on this topic: Insecurity stems from fear. In my humble opinion (and I am a mental health counselor), all of us have insecurities. Insecurity is about fear of what one thinks others think. Fear is inherent to the D/s relationship or it would be no fun, right? So it makes sense that at times either party may have some insecurities. For sure, if one allows it to fester, it will destroy trust and genuiness in any relationship, vanilla or bdsm. I think it is worth some energy to figure out what exactly it is that you are afraid of and then communicate these fears very directly to your partner. You may be surprised to learn that the other has the same feelings or is able to assist to address your concerns. The key is open communication. Here is a quotation that may help. Meditate on it and see what you find. Good luck and be well, heather "It is only the artificial ego that suffers. The man who has transcended his false 'me' no longer identifies with his suffering." Wei Wu Wei

SultrySub4M -> RE: Subs Insecurity (9/21/2007 10:07:38 AM)
Oh and...I do not claim to be an 'expert' here. Just someone who knows a lot about feelings and behaviors. When I say 'fear is inherent' I mean that there is an exchange of power and power has an element of fear. A wise woman gave me some good advice: stop worrying about what you think others think about how you manage your life and just manage. Very helpful to me and helped me unhook from my own expectations of myself. There is a dichotomy here in that I think for a sub to really let go and give her D real control and power, she must detach and attach simultaneously. Be well, heather

leatherette -> RE: Subs Insecurity (9/21/2007 7:34:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SultrySub4M There is a dichotomy here in that I think for a sub to really let go and give her D real control and power, she must detach and attach simultaneously. Thank you SultrySub4M That's deep and I have found it to be true as well. Hard concept to grasp maybe, but if you've been there - far out![:)] love to all -

RRafe -> RE: Subs Insecurity (9/21/2007 7:46:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leatherette quote: ORIGINAL: SultrySub4M There is a dichotomy here in that I think for a sub to really let go and give her D real control and power, she must detach and attach simultaneously. Thank you SultrySub4M That's deep and I have found it to be true as well. Hard concept to grasp maybe, but if you've been there - far out![:)] love to all - I understand it quite well. Bondage frees.

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