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RE: Service in exchange for Mentoring? - 9/19/2007 3:44:18 AM   
LadyHugs


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Dear Stephann, Ladies and Gentlemen,
 
When I taught/mentored driving horses, there were techniques I had people do long before sitting in a cart behind a horse.  Some of these techniques are passed on to those in BDSM whip work skills, as holding and using a whip for driving a horse was more of a light brush and not of a harsh beating.  In holding a whip for either driving horses or for S&M, the desire to avoid fatique and maintain accuracy was the main objective.
 
Those without driving horses to practice on--would be given techniques and perhaps provoke some unkind jokes and didn't understand the 'method to these odd behaviors' however, having the understanding and foundation techniques which shoved bad habits to the side-- they could come into the cart and pick up the reins and have a horse turn sharply at a pinch of the reins--very subtle and very artful--and the horse was immediately responsive to the lightest of touches. 
 
What I teach/mentor those in S&M and or BDSM, is that a person can recall their whips without interrupting their strokes.  Again, with a loose grip in using a single tail and or flogger; to close the hand tight quickly will retract the whip immediately.  This can be demonstrated at home to one's satisfaction and proof of truth.  Taking a chair that has a back that has a horizontal bar for the chair's back.  Tie a rope (that is not stretchy) or can wrap a belt around this bar and stand with your hand open and lay the belt/rope in the palm of your hand then rotate it as if holding a soda or glass of water.  Let the rope or belt rest between your index finger and thumb pad.  Putting the most lightest of pressure, make the rope/belt taunt but do not tip the chair.  Just enough tension to feel the connection of hand to chair.  Now, pinch the rope/leather and watch the chair. It will either slide on tile floor or tip on it's hind legs if on carpet.  Middle finger and index finger and pinch with the thumb, it will be more pronounced. Close the entire hand and you will see that roughly 2-3 inches are gathered and tips the chair or slides it back, if on tile.  This is just one example out of many tips I give as a mentor/teacher.
 
Equestrians learn this art/technique when riding horses.  One does not need to yank or pull, it just takes a pinch or close of the hand.  Then, when working in double bridles, the techniques take on other levels using angles. 
 
As an instructor -- the goal for me is to have the rider or driver have their horse/pony/cob under control.  Upsetting a horse by jerking their head, added with a cart/buggy/wagon and or carriage--is dangerous; especially when driving on highways with trucks, buses, emergency equipment with sirens and horns blasting, cars and such; let alone riding astride a horse.
 
As an instructor in the art of whips and canes, paddles and spanking-- techniques to aid the TOP/Dominant from tiring or working to hard for the task, my desire is to show techniques to save strength and energy for them as well as techniques a submissive/slave can use to give them endurance, aid in pain and or discomfort management.  To be able to recall a whip fast, should a bottom/slave/submissive lurch back suddenly. The recall will not cause the TOP/Dominant to loose control of the whip--just remove the whip from it's original path and distance when thrown forward.  This will work on single tails and floggers as well.
 
There is more to my mentoring than just whip/cane skills and or S&M however, I just wanted to example how some odd techniques can benefit when the time comes in using whips/canes.  I mentor/teach in other areas but, that is another time and or topic.
 
Just some thoughts.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Service in exchange for Mentoring? - 9/19/2007 4:03:54 AM   
RapierFugue


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Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pearlmoongirl


I was reading the journal of another sub here (ProlificNeeds) and she posed an interesting question.

Are there any Doms out there who would take on a submissive to do service things (cooking, cleaning, walking the dog) in exchange for mentoring?

Don't get me wrong - the sexual stuff would be marvelous, but I have been wondering if I could/should start someplace simpler.

~pmg



If someone is prepared to mentor a person then they should do so without seeking any reward but that of a job well done.  A little adoration and respect helps grease the wheels, but having to perform service in order to “earn” an education in slavery strikes me as a bit false on the Master’s part.
 
Out of interest, what is it you think you’re so bad at that you need mentoring on in the first place?  Generally speaking, if a Master is prepared to take on a novice, then part of the deal is the act of teaching the slave, which is often an enjoyable process in itself.
 
Be clear about what you want; if you want service, go find service, but if you desire a sexual component then engaging in a situation that has none is liable to leave you feeling either frustrated, short-changed, or both.

(in reply to pearlmoongirl)
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RE: Service in exchange for Mentoring? - 9/19/2007 5:30:45 AM   
SirCache


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quote:

ORIGINAL: e01n
Rule number 1 of finding a mentor: A mentor is not someone you pay anything but attention.


Fact of life #1:  Nothing worth having in life is cheap or easy.  Mentoring takes a substantial amount of time week-to-week, it requires constant efforts on my part to ensure the lessons are learned so that a person is knowledgable, plays safe, and has a firm grasp of the tasks they want to learn.  It's not done strictly as a method of payment, either, but as a sign that the applicant is dedicated enough that they will put real effort into their apprenticeship.

If you go to a trade school, technical school, any higher education, specialty courses, etc--you don't get to do it for free.  To insinuate that my time is somehow not valuable is insulting.  To consider a reasonable accomodation on the part of an apprentice is not outside the bounds of good taste.  There are lessons to be learned in all tasks I assign, not just the ones I may instruct upon directly.  I would suggest you consider that at some point in the future.

(in reply to e01n)
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RE: Service in exchange for Mentoring? - 9/19/2007 5:47:20 AM   
e01n


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No, I was speaking to the level of involvement and motivations. Being a teacher is a valid vocation and quite honorable. But it's not a mentor in this case - it's being a teacher.

http://www.managementhelp.org/guiding/mentrng/mentrng.htm - a good set of resources on what mentoring is and isn't from a business perspective

http://management.about.com/cs/people/a/mentoring.htm - another pretty good description. An excerpt from this one:
quote:

Definition
The Merriam-Webster WWWebster Dictionary defines a mentor as "a trusted counselor or guide." For their Mentor/Protégé Program, the Anesthesiology Department of Cleveland’s MetroHealth System defines mentor as "a wise, loyal advisor or coach."

Application
A mentor is an individual, usually older, always more experienced, who helps and guides another individual’s development. This guidance is not done for personal gain.

Mentoring is used in many settings. Although it is most common in business, we saw above its use in a medical setting at MetroHealth. It is commonly used in educational settings, especially with "at risk" students. It is also the basic principle behind the Big Brothers and Big Sisters programs.
I see this last example as the most applicable - when I mentor through ACF and other organizations, it's not a case of me teaching them something. Instead, I am asked for my views and often they will gain something from them. I, in turn, am put into the position of having to think outside of myself and gain that way.

But neither of us is teaching the other anything. That's what a school, teacher or tutor is for...

Mentoring is not teaching. Teaching is not mentoring. A teacher can be a mentor, but a mentor should not try to be a teacher unless they are asked to teach...

< Message edited by e01n -- 9/19/2007 5:48:12 AM >

(in reply to SirCache)
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RE: Service in exchange for Mentoring? - 9/19/2007 6:59:17 AM   
pearlmoongirl


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I had no idea this would be such a contentious issue, but I've learned a lot just from reading the disagreement so far.

Frankly, I asked this question because I'm trying to find a fair and workable compromise between having no Dom and leaping into something with sexual expectations. For reasons I won't explain here (because I won't hijack my own thread) I'm extremely leery of throwing sex into the mix right away, but I won't ask for a Dom's time and attention without offering some degree of submission in return.

Thank you all for reading and for your posts -
pmg

(in reply to e01n)
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RE: Service in exchange for Mentoring? - 9/19/2007 7:41:35 AM   
Stallions


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Why not? Whatever works works. I'd mentor a sub for a jelly doughnut.

(in reply to heartfeltsub)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Service in exchange for Mentoring? - 9/19/2007 8:29:51 AM   
e01n


Posts: 1472
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pearlmoongirl: I had no idea this would be such a contentious issue, but I've learned a lot just from reading the disagreement so far.

Any time you have humans interacting, contention is one possibility of how they will do that. It's a given...
quote:

ORIGINAL: PMG: Frankly, I asked this question because I'm trying to find a fair and workable compromise between having no Dom and leaping into something with sexual expectations.

I believe that's often called dating. I highly recommend it. As to learning from others, I'd suggest approaching it specifically as that - "You know X and I wish to learn it... Are you open to teaching me this?" Chances are, if it's something technical there's probably a class, video or book on it that they can recommend to you even as they tell you no.... Attitudes, though, that's trickier - you can really only learn those by doing. I can't imagine learning submission from a book.
quote:

ORIGINAL: PMG: For reasons I won't explain here (because I won't hijack my own thread) I'm extremely leery of throwing sex into the mix right away, but I won't ask for a Dom's time and attention without offering some degree of submission in return.

Which raises the $64,000 question: what is submission? If I'm working with a student chef (I mentor students in the ACF Educational Foundation program), I ask that they at least try to pay attention and think before they ask something. That can be considered submission. If I tell someone that the activity they plan on engaging in with someone is somewhat risky and as such they should advise their partner that there is risk involved... I would hope that they would give me that "submission" as well. But should I demand it? Not if I'm being a mentor...

If I'm teaching, on the other hand, I would hope to be compensated for my time, energy and efforts. I do teach cooking to people. I also teach a course named "Topics in Biomedical Ethics." I also have been known to teach people some not-so-stupid rope tricks. All of these, I feel that payment of some nature is fair and equitable. Jelly doughnut for showing you a kikkou? Sure, I'm game.

But mentoring... no, it'd ruin the relationship and bias my words and how they're received.

(in reply to pearlmoongirl)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Service in exchange for Mentoring? - 9/19/2007 8:37:09 AM   
Stephann


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From: Portland, OR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann


Mr. Miyagi managed to get his house painted and cars waxed and polished, while still teaching lessons.

Stephan


With all due respect, Stephan, and setting aside the fact that Mr. Miyagi didn't actually exist, the character was that of a master and trainer.
 
Daniel didn't beg Mr. Miyagi to mentor him, he begged Mr. Miyagi to train him for a karate tournament. It was the trainer Mr. Miyagi who got his house painted etc and in that specific training, Daniel learned moves and skill sets and built strength that would become useful in his karate.
 
When Daniel and Miyagi spoke as student and teacher, it was completely different. Sometimes Daniel taught Miyagi and sometimes Miyagi taught Daniel.. and it was for mutual respect and friendship, not to get a car waxed or house painted.
 
 
Celeste


[font=georgiaYou did read the rest of the post right?  That in having a submissive/slave do things that I would expect my submissive/slave do, the goal of receiving guidence and direction (and the collateral exploration of her feelings) is still acheived?

Obviously, different people will have different expectations from a 'mentorship' relationship; be they emotional, psychological, physical, sexual, etc.  Thus the offhand example from a movie (do you usually rail against examples from Secretary too?) that illustrates a mentorship where a boy asks to learn a skill, and a man accepts teaching him.  That the lessons the boy learns aren't simply physical (in this case karate blocks,) but emotional (humility; something I believe vital to any D/s relationship.)

Stephan

< Message edited by Stephann -- 9/19/2007 9:01:49 AM >


_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: Service in exchange for Mentoring? - 9/19/2007 1:07:58 PM   
SimplyMichael


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What's next, different levels of charges for being a friend?  Its funny how some threads ostensibly about proving one thing or other end up proving the opposite.  Any wonder many of us rail against so called "mentors"?  Charging for being a mentor?  A rather sick idea in my opinion.  Charging for teaching a skill, maybe to a class but on an individual basis in something we are supposedly doing for the love of it?  Amazing.

(in reply to Stephann)
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RE: Service in exchange for Mentoring? - 9/19/2007 1:22:19 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:

What's next, different levels of charges for being a friend? Its funny how some threads ostensibly about proving one thing or other end up proving the opposite. Any wonder many of us rail against so called "mentors"? Charging for being a mentor? A rather sick idea in my opinion. Charging for teaching a skill, maybe to a class but on an individual basis in something we are supposedly doing for the love of it? Amazing.


Does this mean I can't have someone come clean my place just for the privilege of listening to my rants about the serene surrender of submissives? 

Crap....now who's going to do my dishes?


_____________________________



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RE: Service in exchange for Mentoring? - 9/19/2007 2:46:58 PM   
BitaTruble


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Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

Did read the rest of the post right?  That in having a submissive/slave do things that I would expect my submissive/slave do, the goal of receiving guidence and direction (and the collateral exploration of her feelings) is still acheived?

 
Of course I read it. I just didn't take issue with the rest of what you wrote, Stephan. You pointed out a specific element in Daniels training and attributed it to mentorship and it wasn't mentorship. You were talking apples and oranges so I made fruit salad.  
 
Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Stephann)
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RE: Service in exchange for Mentoring? - 9/19/2007 3:06:01 PM   
Stephann


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

What's next, different levels of charges for being a friend?  Its funny how some threads ostensibly about proving one thing or other end up proving the opposite.  Any wonder many of us rail against so called "mentors"?  Charging for being a mentor?  A rather sick idea in my opinion.  Charging for teaching a skill, maybe to a class but on an individual basis in something we are supposedly doing for the love of it?  Amazing.


Michael,

While I completely agree with the sentiment you're trying to express here, I'd like to point out that I think the issue isn't exchanging a service (training) for compensation (money, sex, whatever.)  I loved teaching English classes, and most of my students were one on one classes.  I've done classes everywhere from an office, to a bar, to a bar b que, but I expected to be well compensated in every case. 

Celeste,

You seemed a lil hostile with that post, hence my response.  Frankly, I consider martial arts training to have a great deal in common with a D/s mentorship relationship, and probably one of the most apt examples of D/s interaction in the vanilla world (along with military instruction.)

Regards,

Stephan


_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Service in exchange for Mentoring? - 9/19/2007 7:33:08 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann


Celeste,

You seemed a lil hostile with that post, hence my response.  Frankly, I consider martial arts training to have a great deal in common with a D/s mentorship relationship, and probably one of the most apt examples of D/s interaction in the vanilla world (along with military instruction.)

Regards,

Stephan


 
If I seemed hostile, then it was purely unintentional, so I apologize for my poor communication if it led you to that conclusion. You're way too cute for me to get intentionally hostile with ya.  

 
Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Service in exchange for Mentoring? - 9/23/2007 8:04:19 AM   
ehlovindom


Posts: 248
Joined: 1/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pearlmoongirl


I had no idea this would be such a contentious issue, but I've learned a lot just from reading the disagreement so far.

Frankly, I asked this question because I'm trying to find a fair and workable compromise between having no Dom and leaping into something with sexual expectations. For reasons I won't explain here (because I won't hijack my own thread) I'm extremely leery of throwing sex into the mix right away, but I won't ask for a Dom's time and attention without offering some degree of submission in return.

Thank you all for reading and for your posts -
pmg



While I understand that you might wish to reciprocate your "mentoring" by providing some service, and you are wise not to make it sexual, I think the reward a mentor receives would not be a material one, but one of personal satisfaction that he/she has passed along some of their experience and helped you. Having said that, there is no reason why buying a small house gift or offering to take him out for dinner or preparing one for him wouldn't be a nice way to show your appreciation. Unfortunately, I don't think Hallmark has a card for such an occasion!

_____________________________

Know which bridge to build, which one to cross, and which one to burn!

(in reply to pearlmoongirl)
Profile   Post #: 34
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