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Domily differences - 9/19/2007 7:03:11 AM

lippyangelicsub

Posts: 29
Joined: 12/17/2006
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I wonder if when you meet a Dom/Master and you get down to the discussing of limits, and if you say to him oh so respectfully there is this one thing i will never do period, then time down the line he decides in his wisdom you will do it, are you right if you refuse stating that it was a catagorical limit from the first? Or would you be expected to simply obey, even if it was really beyond the end for you to do? Does being a Master opposed to being a Dom mean you don't have to deal with limits? I know a sub or slave can just up and walk away in reality, but if someone wants to keep the relationship then that might not be an option they want.
If you are with a Master for several years and He kind of stops being 'Masterful' to the point you simply don't feel it if it is happening, and the relationship feels more vanilla than icecream, yet he still thinks he is doing the do, you have tried to talk about it , but nothing is being heard, what is a slaves position then?
I shall apologise for my ramblings ahead of time but these thoughts do run through my head and bug me no end. lippy

Post #: 1

RE: Domily differences - 9/19/2007 7:16:06 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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Let's say I tell a man, before he collars me, "I am never having sex on a Friday the 13th because I believe the BC will fail, and I won't do it when we are trying to make a baby because I believe it spawn the anti-Christ". He knows I feel very strongly about this and will not compromise. He knows that this will limit when we will have sex. He agrees to respect this limit (though he probably thinks it's bonkers) and he collars me. Two years later, knowing I still feel the same, he orders that we will have sex on Friday the 13th.

I call that him going back on his word and violating the conditions I agreed to be his under. If he no longer has to hold up his end of the bargain, I don't have to hold up mine - if I don't want to. He can talk to me and reason with me and get me to decide that my limit was silly and that I no longer want it.

The whole point of discussing and agreeing on limits before is so that you both know the conditions that you are agreeing to.

My .02

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to lippyangelicsub)

Post #: 2

RE: Domily differences - 9/19/2007 7:27:10 AM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
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He has every right to decide that going without sex on Friday the 13th (to use Aqua'a great example) is something he can't tolerate. Everybody has the right to grow.

However what is appropriate here is not to say "Fuck your limits and the horse they rode in one" but to talk honestly about this is something he can no longer go without. And then ask if you can see any compromise. Maybe you'll re-examine your limit and discover you can bend some and maybe you'll say "Sorry I don't have any give in this". At which point you decide he can have sex with others on Friday the 13th instead. Or you decide that since neither of you can any longer meet each others needs, it's time to move on.

But announcing that his word isn't to be trusted, that he's just planning on breaking your agreement is equal to ending the relationship in my book. Only it's a cowardly way of doing it, because he forces you to be the bad guy and throw him out so he can whine to all his friends about what a faithless s type you are.

As far as him turning vanilla? What does that mean? He isn't inventing new rules for you to follow every two weeks? You don't get paddled any more? He doesn't enforce long standing rules? You need to be more explicit in telling him how you feel. But in the end, it always comes down to one thing, are you happier with him as is or would you be happier alone? Are you getting enough out of the relationship to counterbalance the things you aren't getting?

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 3

RE: Domily differences - 9/19/2007 7:34:20 AM

breatheasone

Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

I call that him going back on his word and violating the conditions I agreed to be his under. If he no longer has to hold up his end of the bargain, I don't have to hold up mine - if I don't want to. He can talk to me and reason with me and get me to decide that my limit was silly and that I no longer want it.

Well said...If a master/dom gives his word about limits, safe words, boundaries and then renege, what credibility has he then? I could see where it would be very hard to trust someone that doesnt seem it keep their word.

< Message edited by breatheasone -- 9/19/2007 7:36:08 AM >

_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
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(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 4

RE: Domily differences - 9/19/2007 7:34:39 AM

sambamanslilgirl

Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

where does it say a submissive/slave cannot walk away? i've done it twice with my former doms when they decided to force me into something i didn't want or had no interested in doing - forced into bi was one of many hard limits. i'm into trying new things however i don't want to be forced into trying them ...i still have the right to refuse respectfully if it wasn't agreed beforehand. if it's a hard limit for me, i'm not going to try it though he wants to. which is why Daddy (and the new guy i'm planning to see) connect well with our BDSM likes and dislikes ...my hard limits will not be pushed upon.

_____________________________

...2011 - year of the fabulous rock star life ...and i do it so well...

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(in reply to lippyangelicsub)

Post #: 5

RE: Domily differences - 9/19/2007 7:54:49 AM

toservez

Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline

Trust is a two way street and something that is always building and not something that once established is there forever.

No matter the significance of the power exchange in a couple’s relationship it is still a relationship and respect for one’s limits is simply on the must always do thing. Do I think if you been with a person for a while that they can bring up your limits and see if they have changed or willing to try or work toward them not being limits, yes I strongly believe that but not if I feel me still saying no way in hell and somehow that is then judge as a reflection on me.

For example I have a hard limit on breath play. My Master knows my reasons and I have told him my experiences on this but he may or may not grasp how serious it is because I developed this hard limit before him. So if he brings it up as a subject I would not be bothered at all but if he was actually expecting me to change my limit just because of time and our power level exchange then that would be a big issue to me.

As far as if they have stopped giving you what you need in the power exchange area my answer is the same with any need not being filled in any relationship. Communicate it with the other person, if they still decide that you personally do not need it or that nothing has really changed then a decision whether this is truly a need that you have to have or you can not have it in your life and be happy is then up to you. I had to face a very similar decision like the question posed and for me I could no longer cast away my needs as being selfish but needs that all human beings have the right to be filled so I had to leave.

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to lippyangelicsub)

Post #: 6

RE: Domily differences - 9/19/2007 9:08:41 AM

peterK50

Posts: 433
Joined: 1/12/2006
Status: offline

I try to avoid limits, [just nothing illegal, unhealthy, or dangerous]. I try to choose Dom/mes wisely, which these days is like choosing unicorns for me.

_____________________________

Religion Is About Seeking Knowledge, Not Knowing All The Answers.

(in reply to toservez)

Post #: 7

RE: Domily differences - 9/19/2007 9:13:47 AM

littleone35

Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
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Ther are some hard limits i have and one is humilation. I know some like it but it does noything for me an i hate it. Master knows this and promised he would never do that kind of play. If one day he tried it i would tell him Master you know i don't like that please don't do it. If he did not stop it means he did not respect my hard limits i have 2 or 3 others. I would wonder which one he would plan on breaking or pushing next. I would not be able to trust him anymore. Just cause you are a sub doesent mean you have to blindly obey an order you said you would not follow from the get go, and yes you can walk away if the trust is broken.

Matt's littleone

(in reply to toservez)

Post #: 8

RE: Domily differences - 9/19/2007 11:35:14 AM

Twice

Posts: 179
Joined: 9/15/2005
From: Gainesville, Florida
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

If he no longer has to hold up his end of the bargain, I don't have to hold up mine - if I don't want to. He can talk to me and reason with me and get me to decide that my limit was silly and that I no longer want it.

The whole point of discussing and agreeing on limits before is so that you both know the conditions that you are agreeing to.

+1

_____________________________

-K

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 9

RE: Domily differences - 9/19/2007 11:45:05 AM

worththeeffort

Posts: 105
Joined: 6/4/2007
Status: offline

i have very few hard limits, and some of them are odd, and a much longer list of "soft limits" that would require some serious negotiations before even being considered. If a soft limit was something he decided to push for, fair enough. The hard limits, no, no pushing, no give, no wiggle room. They're hard limits for a reason. Like Aqua said, the only way to get around a hard limit, would be to convince me that i no longer wanted that limit. (although with my particular list, i don't see that happening, but who knows)

i don't think your only choices are obey or leave. You have a right to have your limits respected, especially since he knew, and agreed to respect those limits from the beginning. i think you should talk to him, explain why you don't feel what he's asking/ordering is reasonable, and how you feel about him ignoring limits you had made known early on.

As for un-masterful masterly-ness.... without specifics, that's a very hard question to answer. As a general statement though, if he's not fulfilling the position he had committed himself to, i think you have every right to discuss with him the way you feel about him not living up to his part of the bargain. If it's just a lapse in effort or attention or whatever, again, i think you should be able to tell him how you feel about the change in the dynamic of your relationship.

Just this non-slave's opinion. ;-)

~kitty

edited to add - Woohoo! i'm no longer an ice cream cone!

edited again to add - This was in response to the OP, not littleone... stupid fast reply lol

< Message edited by worththeeffort -- 9/19/2007 11:46:58 AM >

(in reply to littleone35)

Post #: 10

RE: Domily differences - 9/19/2007 8:11:00 PM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lippyangelicsub
I wonder if when you meet a Dom/Master and you get down to the discussing of limits, and if you say to him oh so respectfully there is this one thing i will never do period, then time down the line he decides in his wisdom you will do it, are you right if you refuse stating that it was a catagorical limit from the first?

Absolutely! Before Master became my Owner, my hard, non-negotiable limits were set in stone. There are a couple of things I will never, ever do. He knows and understands that and agreed from the beginning that I would never be asked or expected to. Neither of them interest Him either and He's not into forcing me to do things just because He can make me miserable by doing so. If He doesn't enjoy it, He doesn't waste the time.

quote:

Does being a Master opposed to being a Dom mean you don't have to deal with limits?

Nope, not necessarily. My Master has to deal with the limits as established before I became His. We were both fully aware and accepting of them before the M/s relationship was entered into.

quote:

If you are with a Master for several years and He kind of stops being 'Masterful' to the point you simply don't feel it if it is happening, and the relationship feels more vanilla than icecream, yet he still thinks he is doing the do, you have tried to talk about it , but nothing is being heard, what is a slaves position then?

I can't speak for any other slave but my position would allow me to discuss it in depth with Him. Fortunately, He always hears me out and if I was bothered and didn't talk, that would be worse in His eyes...........luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to lippyangelicsub)

Post #: 11

RE: Domily differences - 9/19/2007 10:10:11 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Guilt and shame are some of the best weapons an incompetent dom has in their arsenal to keep subs where they want them.

That being said, we all choose what our requirements are for life. I hold onto this even as I feel I have no real choice in many things in my life now- they simply are as they are. But I hold to the idea that I make the choice because it's the only way I can find satisfaction in living it- otherwise it could be taken away by whatever force gave it to me just as easily.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to slaveluci)

Post #: 12

RE: Domily differences - 9/19/2007 10:33:54 PM

ProlificNeeds

Posts: 1061
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline

Respect, it's something you get, or you don't. If they don't respect your limits, and don't respect your opinions or feelings of a strong nature, then they really, have no respect for you period. If there's no reasoning or compromises to be made, and he pulled the "I am Master, what I say, goes." card, I'd invite him to the door and let him know -he- broke the spirit of our agreements that the relationship was based upon.

Master, Dominant, Grand Poobah, Mister Wiggles, or Lord Lazyass, doesn't matter what someone calls themselves, if they broke an agreement, or purposefully twist or manipulate the spirit of an agreement knowing it goes against what the other person wanted, he's just being a douche.

As for not wanting to walk from a relationship, that is when a person has to stop fretting over the issue, and decide. Will life be better if they walk, or if they 'tolerate' the situation? Which achieves more happiness? Or, in perspective, which will make you least miserable, and keep you healthy in the long run? Being single can be fixed, being stuck inside a prison you make for yourself.. well that never really gets any better over time, that would be my way of looking at it.

Not being heard, is just that, no matter the topic, if they aren't listening, I stop talking, and go find someone who does listen, and get them to help me with my dilemma. Usually the other parties advice, will not be in the best interest of the person who refused to listen... their loss I suppose.

I think I gleened all the questions from the post, but long and short of it is, what people 'expect' you to do, is not what you have to do. You should think, reason, and then act, to achieve an end result that brings you, into a more comfortable place with your relationship and surroundings.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 13

RE: Domily differences - 9/19/2007 11:12:19 PM

KiandPhoenix

Posts: 205
Joined: 8/1/2007
Status: offline

Stick to the limits you have. Don't bend, and anyone who tries to force you change them does not deserve your submission. That being said, if they ask you about it, don't get all mad. Limits change. Hard limits in our house have changed in the last week after all our time together. People grow and change, so don't be afraid of the change. If it is still a hard limit, tell him to go masturbate with a razor blade and move on.
~Ki

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)

Post #: 14

RE: Domily differences - 9/20/2007 11:27:59 AM

junecleaver

Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/6/2005
Status: offline

It would be a huge turn on, honestly. This is just speculation, because I couldn't imagine anything outside of illegal activities coming up in my relationship. I would probably reason that my relationship is more important than that one restriction I brought into the relationship. Maybe this limit is inhibiting my growth and it's finally time to get over it.

_____________________________

"No one will ever win the battle of the sexes; there's too much fraternizing with the enemy. "
--Henry A. Kissinger

(in reply to lippyangelicsub)

Post #: 15

RE: Domily differences - 9/21/2007 6:11:16 AM

twistedkytten

Posts: 240
Joined: 9/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lippyangelicsub

I wonder if when you meet a Dom/Master and you get down to the discussing of limits, and if you say to him oh so respectfully there is this one thing i will never do period, then time down the line he decides in his wisdom you will do it, are you right if you refuse stating that it was a catagorical limit from the first?

we always have the ability to refuse, if it truly is a strong limit for you. the wonderful thing about this world of BDSM is that each individual can create their own substructure within the bigger picture molding it and making it their own. does it still fall under the same definition? are you still a sub/slave if you refuse? of course. maybe just not his.

Or would you be expected to simply obey, even if it was really beyond the end for you to do?
That depends largely on the the individuals and how they ran their version, with mine, i am lucky in that the things that are a no for me.. are things He has no interest in.

Does being a Master opposed to being a Dom mean you don't have to deal with limits?
Everyone is different.. Master A may allow some limits..as does Dom B while Dom A shares the same opinions as those of Master B and runs their world with no limits. The definitions of Master and Dominant vary by interpitation.

I know a sub or slave can just up and walk away in reality, but if someone wants to keep the relationship then that might not be an option they want.
Then they would have to ask.. which is more important to them.. holding to this limit.. or having the relationship,

If you are with a Master for several years and He kind of stops being 'Masterful' to the point you simply don't feel it if it is happening, and the relationship feels more vanilla than icecream, yet he still thinks he is doing the do, you have tried to talk about it , but nothing is being heard, what is a slaves position then?

For me.. when He ceased being Master of the slave. the decision would have been made for me.

I shall apologise for my ramblings ahead of time but these thoughts do run through my head and bug me no end. lippy

_____________________________

Obedience is life, girl lives to serve her Master

(in reply to lippyangelicsub)

Post #: 16

RE: Domily differences - 9/21/2007 6:46:16 AM

xoxi

Posts: 1066
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Twice

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

If he no longer has to hold up his end of the bargain, I don't have to hold up mine - if I don't want to. He can talk to me and reason with me and get me to decide that my limit was silly and that I no longer want it.

The whole point of discussing and agreeing on limits before is so that you both know the conditions that you are agreeing to.

+1

+2

(in reply to Twice)

Post #: 17

RE: Domily differences - 9/22/2007 3:06:02 AM

YourhandMyAss

Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

I would be inclined to say yes, I am in the right to refuse, because in our talks of limits and hard ones, I stated it was a hard limit, and he agreed. He does not, in this relationship then get to turn around and say I've decided you'll do it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lippyangelicsub

I wonder if when you meet a Dom/Master and you get down to the discussing of limits, and if you say to him oh so respectfully there is this one thing i will never do period, then time down the line he decides in his wisdom you will do it, are you right if you refuse stating that it was a catagorical limit from the first? Or would you be expected to simply obey, even if it was really beyond the end for you to do?

(in reply to lippyangelicsub)

Post #: 18

RE: Domily differences - 9/22/2007 11:59:43 AM

Smythe

Posts: 369
Joined: 12/31/2005
Status: offline

Limits are limits if you are playing casually or with someone you don't know so well.

But in an ongoing relationship limits should always be discussable. (Not a word, I know) Sometimes things change when you know your partner really well, and it's alway worth checking
Smythe

_____________________________

Do not consider painful what is good for you.
Euripides

(in reply to lippyangelicsub)

Post #: 19

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