Punishment...privacy?

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OnyxDelphi -> Punishment...privacy? (9/20/2007 12:03:02 AM)
So a question popped into my mind, and the best way I can describe it is through an analogy. Lets say that you are sitting down watching tv with your best friend, and your slave. Lets say you make ask a question and your slave comments accidentally, yet rudely about dumb it was. So, you're slightly offended and your pride is slightly poked at since you're in the presence of your friend. So this is where my question starts. It's not a matter of whether you will punish her, because you are. The question is, is it innapropriate to punish her in front of your friend or do you punish her in private. To which I ask, is punishing your slave in public wrong or...what? Extra Credit if you explain what you would do as a punishment.

lovingdomwanted -> RE: Punishment...privacy? (9/20/2007 12:53:11 AM)
Hi OnyxDelphi, This answer may be wrong but unless you have agreed to public displays of humiliation or punishment, then it would have to be private as it may lead to feelings of resentment which would/may lead to disharmony. And prehaps your sub may have believed watching TV was a vanilla moment. That being said there is no need for rudeness, be it vanilla or BDSM in front of a friend, it makes one feel foolish and I'm sure your sub wouldn't have liked it if you had put them down in front of their friends. Something along those lines happened between An Ex Dom and myself at a social gathering and I recieved a whispered threat that I would be dealt with later and had to wait hours till we got home and that was worse that the punishment that followed after that. Prehaps you should talk to the sub and explain your feelings and that if it happened again, then you would expect them to leave the room for some time-out until your guest left and they would be punished for their rudeness as soon as the guest left. Your sub may not think that they have done anything wrong but until you explain, they will still be in the dark.....Its all about communication. xxxxxx

iammachine -> RE: Punishment...privacy? (9/20/2007 1:51:27 AM)
that depends a lot on whether or not your friend is "in the know" or not. As for punishments in public, that depends on the kind of punishment. I have a policy of trying to make it a point to not scare the locals.

wilfulcontrol -> RE: Punishment...privacy? (9/20/2007 2:42:13 AM)
If the friend wouldn't be offended....certain lifestyle friends believe discretion is paramount and my living room is far too public, while one or two vanilla friends who I'm out with would yell out requests for what they wanted to see.

AquaticSub -> RE: Punishment...privacy? (9/20/2007 3:46:49 AM)
I probably wouldn't be punished at all. Valyraen enjoys it when I can score a point on him. But when he gets annoyed with me in public, he usually just gives me a stern look. That is all that is needed.

feastie -> RE: Punishment...privacy? (9/20/2007 4:44:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OnyxDelphi So a question popped into my mind, and the best way I can describe it is through an analogy. Lets say that you are sitting down watching tv with your best friend, and your slave. Lets say you make ask a question and your slave comments accidentally, yet rudely about dumb it was. So, you're slightly offended and your pride is slightly poked at since you're in the presence of your friend. So this is where my question starts. It's not a matter of whether you will punish her, because you are. The question is, is it innapropriate to punish her in front of your friend or do you punish her in private. To which I ask, is punishing your slave in public wrong or...what? Extra Credit if you explain what you would do as a punishment. Well, I rather think this is a real situation and not a "oh, let's say" situation. I also have to wonder why it is the first thought of so many is to "punish!". Put down the stone and back away from the glass window. T-A-L-K in a different time and place. Discuss. No yelling, no blame, no finger pointing, no demands. Calmly and directly stating that you found her comments to be inappropriate and why you feel that way and tell her that you expect her to remember this conversation. That's really all that it takes. Really.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Punishment...privacy? (9/20/2007 5:49:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OnyxDelphi So a question popped into my mind, and the best way I can describe it is through an analogy. Lets say that you are sitting down watching tv with your best friend, and your slave. Lets say you make ask a question and your slave comments accidentally, yet rudely about dumb it was. So, you're slightly offended and your pride is slightly poked at since you're in the presence of your friend. So this is where my question starts. It's not a matter of whether you will punish her, because you are. The question is, is it innapropriate to punish her in front of your friend or do you punish her in private. To which I ask, is punishing your slave in public wrong or...what? Yes, punishing in public IS wrong. In the above scenario, if the comment was minor, I would merely instruct my slave to apologize immediately. If it was done promptly and sincerely, and if the comment was of the accidental slip-of-the-tongue variety, I would likely allow the matter to pass. If the situation escalated to where a greater correction was needed, she would be sent to the bedroom (or other private room), where an appropriate punishment would be meted out. After this was done, she would still make apologies to my friend. Mild and immediate corrections are done on the spot, and as such may be done publicly. Anything more severe than a discrete pinch of the earlobe or fingernail, however, should be done in private. Correction is a matter between master and slave; it is not something for the world to perv at.

SirCache -> RE: Punishment...privacy? (9/20/2007 5:55:10 AM)
I'd say it depends on what you have in agreement with one another for starters, and whether or not the offense was severe enough to warrant a public demonstration. Of course, if your friend is not aware of the kind of relationship, they may be a little perplexed. Personally, if there had to be any kind of punishment to give, it would be done in private. It's not because it would be brutal, or violent, or anything so terrible that I don't want other people to see it... but because punishment requires that close intimacy to make it clear what the offense was and why it offended me. It also requires an apology that is heartfelt. I don't think that I can find both with an audience, especially since the slave may be more concerned with how they look/appear rather than doing what is necessary and right. I don't believe in putting them into that kind of double-jeopardy situation where they have to choose what to do. If it's a slave, there can be only one person they are trying to impress when they are being punished--and it's not a houseguest.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Punishment...privacy? (9/20/2007 6:12:31 AM)
quote: Well, I rather think this is a real situation and not a "oh, let's say" situation. I also have to wonder why it is the first thought of so many is to "punish!". Put down the stone and back away from the glass window. "When the troops are strong and the general is weak, the troops will be insubordinate." (Sun Tzu, The Art of War). Punishment/corrective measures should be in just measure to the misdeed in question, but where there is misbehavior, negative consequence (punishment) must follow or the power dynamic will be impaired. That is the order of theings.

Celeste43 -> RE: Punishment...privacy? (9/20/2007 6:37:10 AM)
Talk to her. Because if you and your friend are tossing sarcastic quips back and forth, scoring points off of her, and she hasn't consented to be humiliated by your friend, then IMO she had every right to answer back. But here we operate on the simple principle that both of us deserve to be treated in a respectful manner. Obviously, YMMV.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Punishment...privacy? (9/20/2007 7:01:42 AM)
quote: Talk to her. Because if you and your friend are tossing sarcastic quips back and forth, scoring points off of her, and she hasn't consented to be humiliated by your friend, then IMO she had every right to answer back. I agree with you in that scenario. That was not the scenario presented--light hearted banter is not "rude", IMO. The only absolute is that negative behavior be met with negative response. Everything else comes in the moment, based on what is happening at that time.

toservez -> RE: Punishment...privacy? (9/20/2007 8:52:22 AM)
I echo what every one said that it depends if the third is in the know and even then how much in the know. I also point out it depends on one’s relationship. My Master would despise me for always walking the line of blind admiration and respect especially in a public vanilla setting. Not saying in this example or in other relationships a punishment was not in order but I just felt a little uneasy with the assumption of a vanilla comment not to a Masters liking is some automatic un submissive like thing that must be dealt with.

YourhandMyAss -> RE: Punishment...privacy? (9/20/2007 9:38:41 AM)
Even if I was aware of the dynamic, should I be in that situation, I'd be uncomfortable at being made to witness "her dressing down" I don't want to be made wittness to any one's disipline, disipline should be a private matter.

goalie62 -> RE: Punishment...privacy? (9/20/2007 10:07:19 AM)
Well, being Ex-Navy myself, I am a strong believer in praise publicly but punish privately. Unless your dynamic is one that allows public humiliation ot punishment, I have to agree that private is best. I also find myself in agreement with the suggestion of talking it out. I usually use measured response myself and this could have been the result of a miscommunication. All in all, I wasn't there so I didn't see it. Anything I may suggest is only my own opinion and YMMV.

havingfaith -> RE: Punishment...privacy? (9/20/2007 11:27:09 AM)
i don't know if i misunderstood this but to tell anyone that asks a question that it was dumb IS rude to me. i have always believed there are no dumb questions. But to publically punish someone for it? Not for me. It can be so much worse getting a look or a whisper and having to wait. This girl HATES to wait.

grlneedstolearn -> RE: Punishment...privacy? (9/20/2007 11:30:39 AM)
i had one incidence with that with my Dom and a couple of my closest friends, who he knew as well. i knew i was going to be punished, but he waited until they left before punishing me. If we're in public and i misbehave, knock on wood it hasn't happened yet, he would whisper that i will be punished when we got back home. So no he would never punish me in public, at least i don't think he would [8\|].

feastie -> RE: Punishment...privacy? (9/20/2007 4:52:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: Well, I rather think this is a real situation and not a "oh, let's say" situation. I also have to wonder why it is the first thought of so many is to "punish!". Put down the stone and back away from the glass window. "When the troops are strong and the general is weak, the troops will be insubordinate." (Sun Tzu, The Art of War). Punishment/corrective measures should be in just measure to the misdeed in question, but where there is misbehavior, negative consequence (punishment) must follow or the power dynamic will be impaired. That is the order of theings. Not in all relationships or with all people. Punishment can also have a negative outcome, rather than a negative one. The power dynamic will be impaired just as readily with the use of punishment as without. It all hinges on the parties involved. My main point is that punishment shouldn't be the automatic, knee-jerk, go-to answer for every "misdeed". I don't punish my UMs for everything. Most of the time I employ discussion and most of the time, it works very well. A testament to that is the excellent behavior of my UMs at nearly all times. As a submissive person is an adult, logic would follow that s/he would benefit from discussion rather than "punishment". Of course, I can only speak from personal experience. "Punishment" is not effective with me at all.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Punishment...privacy? (9/20/2007 5:20:21 PM)
To the OP- I would perhaps give a quick frown and a serious pat on the shoulder as a sign to center themselves. Later I'd mention it and offer a suggestion for an appropriate response next time and that's it. For the topic in general- It's generally inappropriate. Guests should be made as priority and made to feel as comfortable as possible. So unless punishing you somehow INCREASED their feelings of welcome and comfort, it would be pretty much not allowed. In general public, if unable to be perceived by anyone else, do whatever you want. If it may interfere with anyone else and likely to cause them discomfort, then it's not advisable either. Even at a kinky party, punishment is considered a fairly private issue and since punishment is a NEGATIVE experience, most people do NOT want that to be a part of their supposedly fun time out on the town. Overall it's just not a good idea- but then I don't punish casually anyway so punishment for me would include LOTS of talking over and LOTS of discussion on goals and priorities and expectations- so doing it at a public party or when guests are over is just not going to happen. http://www.collarchat.com/m_1252293/mpage_1/key_punishment%252Cpublic/tm.htm#1252415 public punishment

Cyntilating -> RE: Punishment...privacy? (9/20/2007 6:02:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub , he usually just gives me a stern look. That is all that is needed. nodding...yep! the look would be enough to put my mind in a tizzy ( sp? ) for the rest of the evening, until later when & if he decided to talk with me about it..... bantering, lively conversation, fiesty retorts, innuendo ( sexual and otherwise), openly expressing our thoughts and opinions> is common place in our relationship....I adore that about him and about us.. so the scenario mentioned above would probably not result in any punishment... if he felt I was getting too fiesty> he lets me know, between us. doesn't have to make any one else in the room feel uncomfy. ( altho I cant actually see myself using the word "dumb" ..)

Celeste43 -> RE: Punishment...privacy? (9/20/2007 6:07:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: Talk to her. Because if you and your friend are tossing sarcastic quips back and forth, scoring points off of her, and she hasn't consented to be humiliated by your friend, then IMO she had every right to answer back. I agree with you in that scenario. That was not the scenario presented--light hearted banter is not "rude", IMO. The only absolute is that negative behavior be met with negative response. Everything else comes in the moment, based on what is happening at that time. There's an awful lot carefully left out of the op. How does he normally talk to her? Does he toss zingers at her, because he enjoys humiliation play? Does he put her down a lot while she doesn't answer back? Because I doubt her response came out of nowhere. I'm betting that in private he speaks to her less than respectfully which is fine if she consents to it. But I doubt he bothered to ask if she agrees he can put her down in public. Regardless, something must have caused her to use this venue as a way of expressing her anger or resentment with him. If he forbids her to talk to him about stuff that she's upset about, it will come out somewhere. We read a lot about 'doms' who don't allow subs to talk freely, who insist they are only responded to positively even when the situation is not positive for the sub. In a case like that, eventually the repressed feelings will begin to work their way out. Of course, she may just have a toothache which made her unable to think before she speaks and hasn't mentioned it because he'd have made her go to the dentist. Punishment won't eliminate the cause. Communication may but certainly the lack of communication will definitely not cure the problem.-

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