RE: Jena 6 Day

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luckydog1 -> RE: Jena 6 Day (9/22/2007 12:50:38 AM)
seeks, obviously George Bush did it...

SeeksOnlyOne -> RE: Jena 6 Day (9/22/2007 4:37:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: julietsierra This whole thing is pretty sad really. Most high school students - boys and girls - at one point, whether in their neighborhoods, basements or school grounds, end up in at least one fight in their high school lives. Everything perceived hurt and insult is superficial to a teen. It doesn't matter if that teen is black or white. Precedent doesn't pay attention to the color line. Yes, most schools these days have a zero tolerance rule in place. Zero tolerance means that the kids get expelled for fighting, not tried as an adult, not imprisoned for up to 25 years for attempted murder. Take the stance of "if this were my kid." Would you want YOUR son or daughter, white or black, to be imprisoned for fighting at school? And if you say it wouldn't happen to your son or daughter, I'd have to ask why you think that. I've seen otherwise very calm and reasonably mature teens snap at a perceived insult and unfortunately find out what zero tolerance means in practice. Bullying these days includes threats, both verbal and inferred, and the very unfortunate result of these inferred bullying tactics is that rarely are the bullies prosecuted for their actions, Whereas, those they hurt until they snap are. Columbine taught school officials this and the principal acted appropriately in recommending to the school board that the noose hangers be expelled. What was not appropriate was that the school board did not behave in a racially neutral fashion and their actions exacerbated a difficult problem that could have been avoided. What was not appropriate is that a school board member was allowed to threaten the population of a school and then use the power of his position to do the very thing he threatened. The bottom line is that the noose hangers AND the jumpers could have been any one of our progeny, and what the protesters were and ARE asking for was simply for people of all cultural backgrounds to realize this and behave accordingly. What they were and are asking for is for the criminal justice system in Jena, Louisiana to conduct itself in a fashion that does not reward people because they are white and punish people because they are black. Mychal Bell has been imprisoned in an adult facility now for 11 months. In contrast, the noose hangers have been living a life that is quite free. Just how many more pounds of flesh are people demanding from Mychal Bell before their quest for vengence against has been satisfied? Just how far are people willing to push things in order to keep one segment of society in their place? And would you want your son or daughter to face what Mychal Bell is facing? It can happen. It's not that far-fetched. juliet i disagree with the statement that most high school kids get in a fight at some point. most never get in the situation to fight, or make a better choice on how to deal with it. the problem is, the few that do fight get the press, while the ones that go to school and do "their job", which is to learn, dont get too much press at all. i have mixed feelings about the expelled vs jail time on this particular case. i do feel that, even if the 6 kids had been expelled, there would be protests and claims of racism. as for if it were my kid......whether he was the noose hanger or one of the fighters, he would have been more afraid to come home and face what i was going to do to him than he would have been of facing the admin at school or the cops. if you choose to say the noose hanging student should have been expelled, (not that you did juliet), then do you still think expulsion only is the answer for the 6 who beat the other kid? that seems unfair in my mind, but i admit my mind is that of a 45 yo white female. i still cant get past the fact that they went 6 on 1 against someone. no matter what, that is the actions of a mob and/or chickens......not young men feeling they have had their civil rights violated.... its a muckin fess with no clear answers.......thats my final answer regis!

SugarMyChurro -> RE: Jena 6 Day (9/22/2007 5:04:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave I only threw this in because SugarmyChurro presents Malcolm as a bit of a charmer. Perhaps I don't fully grasp what you mean by that statement. Can you clarify? Is there something that Malcolm X is supposed to have gotten away with?

seeksfemslave -> RE: Jena 6 Day (9/22/2007 5:22:11 AM)
copied from Wikipedia. After some time in Harlem he became involved in drug dealing gambling racketeering and robbery During this time, he was known to his friends and acquaintances as "Detroit Red". Between 1943 and 1946, when he was arrested and jailed in Massachusetts Malcolm drifted between Boston and New York City three more times. You gave me the impression that you thought that Malcolm X was ONLY a socio/political agitator. Thats what I thought and thats why I posted what I did. I've got no problem with agitators be they black or white. For instance I say good luck to, for example, Blaakmaan, but I still think he's got hold of the wrong end of the stick. Never having been to Louisiana maybe I have. Everyone knows that racial discrimination exists, the only certain way for the black community to rise above it is to pull themselves up. economically. I realise this is no easy matter but there you are. Running the steets as many seem to choose is taking them nowhere.

LeMis -> RE: Jena 6 Day (9/22/2007 5:48:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: LeMis quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 If you call a group of kids the "n" word,you`re gonna get your ass kicked. If he had call 8 kids the "n" word,it would have been 8 on 1.If he had called 3 kids the "n" word,it would have been 3 on 1. The lesson here is,don`t call someone the "n" word,you`re gonna get you ass kicked. sticks and stones will break my bones.... [8\|] How about a noose in your yard?Or a burning cross?How about a dead animal thrown down your well? Remember the context,here. Also,it was kids.I think the adults need to be more adult,and stop poking at this,and making it a political horse to beat on. None of the above broke any bones either... [8\|] sheeeesh, let the law handle it, don't take the law into your own hands.

Owner59 -> RE: Jena 6 Day (9/22/2007 6:00:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave Nothing to do with the thread and I dont care; but just out of interest who murdered Malcolm X? Was it a white racist group or a black rival group ? Only arskin' I only threw this in because SugarmyChurro presents Malcolm as a bit of a charmer. In other words seeing what he wants to see, a bit like those in this thread who want soft option treatment because those charged are black. Having said that I do agree that a 20/25 year sentence is excessive. But....they haven't got it yet have they ? and I dont care; but just out of interest who murdered Malcolm X? Wow,that is so helpful!Thanks for that.....

Owner59 -> RE: Jena 6 Day (9/22/2007 6:23:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave copied from Wikipedia. After some time in Harlem he became involved in drug dealing gambling racketeering and robbery During this time, he was known to his friends and acquaintances as "Detroit Red". Between 1943 and 1946, when he was arrested and jailed in Massachusetts Malcolm drifted between Boston and New York City three more times. You gave me the impression that you thought that Malcolm X was ONLY a socio/political agitator. Thats what I thought and thats why I posted what I did. I've got no problem with agitators be they black or white. For instance I say good luck to, for example, Blaakmaan, but I still think he's got hold of the wrong end of the stick. Never having been to Louisiana maybe I have. Everyone knows that racial discrimination exists, the only certain way for the black community to rise above it is to pull themselves up. economically. I realise this is no easy matter but there you are. Running the steets as many seem to choose is taking them nowhere. I've got no problem with agitators be they black or white. Did I see you post something about being OK w/ the "agitator",getting tasered ,at UF? If not,my apologies. If yes,which one is it?Certainly can`t be both

Alumbrado -> RE: Jena 6 Day (9/22/2007 6:25:07 AM)
I've long suspected that Seeks was really Bill Cosby, and this certainly confirms it.[8\|]

seeksfemslave -> RE: Jena 6 Day (9/22/2007 6:28:44 AM)
quote: Owner59 and I dont care; but just out of interest who murdered Malcolm X? Wow,that is so helpful! Thanks for that..... If I can help some bodeeee as I pass this way then my liviiiiing has not been in vain. Adding: Owner59 picks me up on a contradiction re my true attitude to agitators. At the risk of being boring, lol, it all depends on what you mean by agitator. Political agitation within the restraints of the legal system probably wont achieve much until the problem gets so bad that "something must be done", is not the same as a young adolescent show off making a nuisance of himself and refusing to obey first a legitimate request then an order from a law enforcement figure.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Jena 6 Day (9/22/2007 7:47:50 AM)
quote: How much injury is caused by viewing a rope hanging from a tree? That was wittingly,or un-wittingly,the most bigoted thing I`ve read on a message board. I guess spray painting Swastikas on Jewish temples, is no big deal either.And should only carry a "defacing property" charge,(a misdemeanor). How much injury is caused by a little spray paint,Merc? Owner, First - I find it difficult to believe that you or Synergy would think that my post regarding these young men knowing the exact amount of kicks and/or punches that would result in death or brain damage silly. Either I underestimated your intelligence or overestimated my ability for irony and sarcasm. You guys just aren't that dumb or perhaps you guys received too many kicks to the head. You rationalize a noose hanging from a tree justifies a beating? VERY happy that you are training our youth with martial arts - NOT! However, I appreciate the same naiveté that went into believing the men counted blows went into your projecting racial prejudice into my remarks - I guess it can't be helped. To answer you question - No injury can be caused by a little spray paint - and I wouldn't point to it to justify causing, to this point, permanent vision problems as occurred in this instance. VERY surprised you do. I thought teaching martial arts was all about control? Do you work for the Cobra Kai School ? quote: With your logic,every push,shove and punch,would bring an"attempted murder"charge.Ridiculous, isn`t strong enough a word.Get real... The result of "pushing & shoving"? http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070919/480/7b4a6f668d1d457bb9a96cc57fc23abd You get "real". I take such pushing ans shoving of you and/or yours wouldn't result in any action on your part or any cause for legal or civil action? Can't put it any better - "get real!" However, in general terms in consideration of this: quote: I was talking about Merc`s logic, not the case itself. Technically,a shove can kill.Do you want school kids charged w/ attempted murder,for that?With Merc`s logic,you would. Reconcile your "logic". You, an instructor of martial arts proclaim; "technically a shove can kill". Would this have gone to trial as an "attempted murder case, and were I a lawyer in this case I'd bring you in as an expert witness. Lawyer: This man was hit and kicks numerous times, some after being unconscious, was pushed, and received many blows to the head. As a expert in martial arts and an instructor. How many blows does it take to kill a person" Owner: Technically, a shove can kill. Lawyer: No more questions your honor - Witness excused. Care to rebut yourself? quote: From what I understand, they knocked him out with a punch and then continued to kick and beat the person when they were down. Exactly what charge do you propose would have been appropriate? Were I a police officer and/or prosecutor I'd know. Those that are in that neck of the woods made their decision. Obviously they changed their mind. But considering yours and Owner's "expertise" saying that one blow can kill - I guess the only question is "intent". Let the court and or jury decide that issue. The sentencing issue is a smokescreen. It was the MAXIMUM - POTENTIAL sentence IF tried for that crime. I guess to make your point you need to only consider the maximum. OKAY with that. "How much injury is caused by a noose hanging from a tree?" - represents the same tactic by me. OJ is innocent according to criminal court and guilty according to civil court. Justice, as defined in the US, was served. I have no problem with the results as they've gone through due process, as the case in this instance. quote: My agenda is that judicial actions should not be determined by the color of a boy's skin and that consequences for criminal actions should be evenly applied. I simply do not see that that is the case in this situation. That's my biggest agenda. My second agenda is that once set, precedence holds no regard for color and that it's no small jump to see my son and his friends in the same situation, regardless of the pigmentation they carry. And for both those agendas, I'll believe as I do - regardless of pictures and all the knee-jerking that's going on. juliet, Well that's FANTASTIC! You and I are in the exact frame of mind believing that all EEO, ECOA, AA, "Hate Crime" and any prejudicial programs and/or policies should be eliminated. Equality can only come if nobody is considered "more equal" than any other.

DomKen -> RE: Jena 6 Day (9/22/2007 8:32:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HaveRopeWillBind As a white male I know that if I choose to walk through certain parts of Watts or Bedford Stuyvesant that I am not likely to escape unscathed. In the same way any intelligent Black man who chooses to take a drive through certain white strongholds (such as Beverly Hills) knows he is very likely to be detained simply for being black. I always love hearing this bs spouted by bigots. A white can't safely travel in Watts or Bed Stuy? please. I have and had no trouble at all. I went to the University of Chicago and am a stubborn sort so I frequently used the Garfield "L" stop across Washington Park in the Englewood neighborhood. It was considerably closer to my house than any other "L" stop and was the fastest way to get downtown. It was however across Washington Park and in what could be kindly described as a run down part of the city. Residents of Hyde Park simply did not go to that stop out of fear. I never had any trouble. I used common sense and didn't wander the area late at night and certainly never did anything to attract the attention of potential muggers. Now contrast my experiences in Englewood with those in Bridegport. Simply driving through the all white neighborhood on a weekend afternoon with a black passenger resulted in rocks being thrown at the car and repeated shouts of the n word. Considering that a black youth was beaten almost to death there just a few months later makes me very glad we didn't have any car trouble before leaving. No minority community anywhere I've ever traveled through has been actively hostile to me and the same certainly cannot be said for how white communities respond to minorities.

FatDomDaddy -> RE: Jena 6 Day (9/22/2007 9:18:45 AM)
Hmmmm... I was reading about Emmett Till yesterday. If you believe the defendants in that case (and I do not) Emmett was *"saying"* all sorts of things and heaping on verbal abuse trying to provoke and frighten a white woman. Emmett Till's supporters and later sympathizers (and I count myself in that group) feel at the most, he whistled at her and maybe, maybe mind you, might have said "hey baby" For words only, Till was grabbed by a lynching party and beaten. By the accounts of his killers (after being found not guilty in 67 minutes and safe because of double jeopardy) they admited, they had not meant to kill him, just to scare him straight and teach him to respect whites. *Words and a symbolic whistle* cased the vile murder of Emmett Till I said before, lynch mobs get out of hand quickly and the difference between a brutal beating and death is but a split second. This is the very reason why they must be prosecuted so vigorously. So I ask all the people supporting the so called Jena six, how would you punished them for forming a lynch mob and doling out their own brand vigilante justice? What would have been, and you have all seen the picture shown on this thread (and if not why???), your reaction had one of the blows to the head caused death? Could it have possibly been "good he got what was coming to him" even then? It is curious that once caught the Jena 6, the killers of Matthew Sheppart and those of Brandon Teena started with similar defenses, that is....the victims caused this to happen.

Owner59 -> RE: Jena 6 Day (9/22/2007 9:21:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy Hmmmm... I was reading about Emmett Till yesterday. If you believe the defendants in that case (and I do not) Emmett was *"saying"* all sorts of things and heaping on verbal abuse trying to provoke and frighten a white woman. Emmett Till's supporters and later sympathizers (and I count myself in that group) feel at the most, he whistled at her and maybe, maybe mind you, might have said "hey baby" For words only, Till was grabbed by a lynching party and beaten. By the accounts of his killers (after being found not guilty in 67 minutes and safe because of double jeopardy) they admited, they had not meant to kill him, just to scare him straight and teach him to respect whites. *Words and a symbolic whistle* cased the vile murder of Emmett Till I said before, lynch mobs get out of hand quickly and the difference between a brutal beating and death is but a split second. This is the very reason why they must be prosecuted so vigorously. So I ask all the people supporting the so called Jena six, how would you punished them for forming a lynch mob and doling out their own brand vigilante justice? What would have been, and you have all seen the picture shown on this thread (and if not why???), your reaction had one of the blows to the head caused death? Could it have possibly been "good he got what was coming to him" even then? It is curious that the Jena 6, the killers of Matthew Sheppart and those of Brandon Teena are using similar defenses, that is....the victims caused this to happen. For words only, Till was grabbed by a lynching party and beaten. How about a taser?

FatDomDaddy -> RE: Jena 6 Day (9/22/2007 9:39:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 How about a taser? Nice company you're keeping. You, James Eastland and Charles Laux...The victim had it coming.

SugarMyChurro -> RE: Jena 6 Day (9/22/2007 12:26:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy So I ask all the people supporting the so called Jena six, how would you punished them for forming a lynch mob and doling out their own brand vigilante justice? Again, you are very selective over which actions you wish to prosecute... White Tree = no reaction. Nooses = no reaction. (slap on the wrist) Party fight = no reaction. Shotgun toting white kid = no reaction, criminal penalties for the black kid that stopped him. Jena 6 = hang 'em high! (legally speaking.) ----- When justice is so partial, it is simply not justice. Sorry.

FatDomDaddy -> RE: Jena 6 Day (9/22/2007 12:33:49 PM)
You did not answer the question... How would you punished them for forming a lynch mob and doling out their own brand vigilante justice? AND... You are still blaming the victim.

Blaakmaan -> RE: Jena 6 Day (9/22/2007 12:34:52 PM)
Hmmmmmmmmmmm... Now how did I know that would be your position on this issue? What a surprise! White is alright again... The Confederate flag is freedom of expression. Hanging nooses is freedom of expression. Etcetera, etcetera... Does that record of yours play any other song? If only somebody would express himself by burning a cross on your lawn...

Blaakmaan -> RE: Jena 6 Day (9/22/2007 12:37:58 PM)
What in the word does Malcolm X have to do with this???

Owner59 -> RE: Jena 6 Day (9/22/2007 12:39:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy So I ask all the people supporting the so called Jena six, how would you punished them for forming a lynch mob and doling out their own brand vigilante justice? Again, you are very selective over which actions you wish to prosecute... White Tree = no reaction. Nooses = no reaction. (slap on the wrist) Party fight = no reaction. Shotgun toting white kid = no reaction, criminal penalties for the black kid that stopped him. Jena 6 = hang 'em high! (legally speaking.) ----- When justice is so partial, it is simply not justice. Sorry. Thanks Sugar,for sorting it out. Seems that the complainers are selective in what events they want to hi-light and consider.As well as using selective outrage,which is akin to, fake outrage. All the "what if`s" and "what abouts"and bringing up other cases,as well as "Malcolm X`s life story(lol).Jeshhh,it sounds like children crying and whining. WTF does Malcolm X ,have to do with this?!?!?!

SugarMyChurro -> RE: Jena 6 Day (9/22/2007 12:50:01 PM)
Malcolm X was a momentary digression in this conversation. I was just drawing some parallels. When a group of black kids assert themselves in anything remotely resembling the same manner that white kids might (as if they were a law to themselves), it's somehow newsworthy. No one wants to prosecute the white kids for beating on the black kids during the party fight, right? Let's not prosecute the shotgun kid, let's prosecute the kid that stopped him. It's too stupid...! And this is exactly how institutionalized racism works. The law is cudgel with which to beat the man of color. Now that some proper KKK white kids are involved and with nooses, now the cops in Jena are doing something - but these white kids they are going after are out of towners too. Apparently, it matters...

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