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Is there a Difference Between? - 9/20/2007 12:49:18 PM

redbeard71901

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A Submissive and a Slave? For my experience I have found a great deal of differance between them. But yet I still see people catogorising them together sub/slave. What do you all think?

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RE: Is there a Difference Between? - 9/20/2007 12:51:40 PM

MsBearlee

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I think (in the context we're discussing...consentual behavior) all slaves are submissive but not all submissives are slaves.

That said; the rest is in the eye of the beholder. Hang on to your hat, this could go 47 pages!

B

Edited to add:

Do you follow me? Your slave could be MY submissive...or vice verse. These 'definitions' are not writ in stone. What is a 'cloudy day'? What is the difference in a bud and a flower? When is one grown up...really? It's a word game for philosophers.

< Message edited by MsBearlee -- 9/20/2007 12:54:08 PM >

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RE: Is there a Difference Between? - 9/20/2007 12:57:13 PM

toservez

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Well you are potentially about to get snark on maybe the longest running debate in the history of this life and using the search function.

To answer your question a little bit, I think almost all people think there is a difference between sub and slave and pretty much all have a different specific definition for the two.

Message board or basic talk in a local community tends to lump topics into generalities so everything that is presented is not presented as sub or slave but a general submissive. When reading a message board or in live talk in a local community people for ease or to avoid definition war just tend to group them together not that many think they are the same.

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RE: Is there a Difference Between? - 9/20/2007 1:21:43 PM

SirCache

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I agree with what MsBearlee stated. Within the context of the community, the two have technical differences, but they each are submissive when compared to a Dom.

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RE: Is there a Difference Between? - 9/20/2007 1:42:23 PM

sundownhawk

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To me they are like two circles partially overlapping, they both share many of the same qualities yet with subtle differences. Mostly these differences manifest themselves in the mindset or personality of the sub/slave. Perhaps the biggest difference I have noticed is that a submissive willingly gives up control to her master where not all slaves do. Many slaves need to be dominated and controlled and may even resist your control of them or expect to be used without limits. A submissive displays a form of control themselves by choosing when, how and under what conditions they will submit and usually has specific limits. Though one truism I have found is that for every rule or definition there is always an exception.

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RE: Is there a Difference Between? - 9/20/2007 2:45:58 PM

tricia

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quote:

Do you follow me? Your slave could be MY submissive...or vice verse. These 'definitions' are not writ in stone. What is a 'cloudy day'? What is the difference in a bud and a flower? When is one grown up...really? It's a word game for philosophers.

I would agree with this. I'm a submissive who is my Masters slave. Just recently someone told me they didn't care what my Master said, i didn't have the mentality of a slave. Hmmm. So again, every one has their own definition.

The only thing i am going to add because it's something i have been thinking about recently is .....

I think there is a difference between a person who submits and a submissive person. One no better than the other, of course. Just different.

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RE: Is there a Difference Between? - 9/20/2007 3:15:57 PM

LittleWolvenOne

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There are not only differences between submissives and slaves. There are differences between one person's sub and and other peoples submissives. There are differences between one person's slaves and other people's slaves. This includes how people define and idenfity them selves individually and in thier relationships. You will be recieving many pages of responses with each definition of sub/slave being different from the one that came before.

One defintion that I have heard many people relate to is this:

A submissive enjoys and needs to be told to and taught how to serve some one, enjoys control, wants supervision.
Good for dominants who enjoy control and management.

A slave enjoys and needs to be allowed to serve with out needing or wanting supervision or control.
Good for dominants who enjoy more freedom and less responsibility.

In the middle, another term that is some times used is servent or service orriented submissive.
A servent or service orriented sub is some one who can focus on small details with general overview.
Good for dominants who are really flexible when it comes to the small things,
but have a bigger general vision of how they believe things should work.

But I am not the best person to ask because I am into ageplay with housegirls and puppy training with puppy-boys.
Not really much of a d/s or m/s person.

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RE: Is there a Difference Between? - 9/20/2007 3:48:03 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

ORIGINAL: redbeard71901

A Submissive and a Slave? For my experience I have found a great deal of differance between them. But yet I still see people catogorising them together sub/slave. What do you all think?

I think "submissive" has three syllables and "slave" has one. Any distinction beyond that is largely personal and subjective.

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RE: Is there a Difference Between? - 9/20/2007 3:55:24 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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RE: Is there a Difference Between? - 9/20/2007 3:57:21 PM

gypsygrl

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I didn't recognize the difference as being anything but semantics until I recently became a slave. But, everyone has their own way of looking at things.

In talking things out with my Master this issue kept coming up. He kept referring to me as a sub, and I kept explaining to him very patiently that the only reason I had never referred to myself as a slave was because I had never been a slave. I wasn't committed to being a sub, I just was one as a matter of circumstances. (I'm an empiracist. You cant be what you've never been.) The tendencies were there, but the stars had never been in proper allignment. We had this conversation a couple times, when I finally got irritated (I think he knew he was pushing buttons) and very clearly told him that "I never said I didn't want to be a slave. I just didn't know if I'd be good at it."

In the course of these conversations, his basic point of distinction between sub and slave is that slaves have no rights, and subs do. Everytime he explained this to me, I replied, "Slaves have whatever rights their Master gives them." I thought I'd leave the door open in case he wanted to throw a right my way. :)

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RE: Is there a Difference Between? - 9/20/2007 6:12:58 PM

Celeste43

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsBearlee

I think (in the context we're discussing...consentual behavior) all slaves are submissive but not all submissives are slaves.

Not necessarily. I know a woman who is not the least bit submissive. She calls herself a dominant slave and her husband/owner of 20 plus years agrees with that.

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RE: Is there a Difference Between? - 9/20/2007 9:14:45 PM

beargonewild

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And chances are many other people will also see a difference between a submissive and a slave. IMO there are subtle differences between the two though for the most part. Usually it only matters to the people involved in that relationship on how they want to define themselves.Some are comfortable being called a slave and other are more comfortable calling themselves submissives. Bsically it's up to peersonal preference.

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RE: Is there a Difference Between? - 9/20/2007 10:25:57 PM

iammachine

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quote:

I think (in the context we're discussing...consentual behavior) all slaves are submissive but not all submissives are slaves.

That said; the rest is in the eye of the beholder.

Quoted for truth.

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RE: Is there a Difference Between? - 9/21/2007 3:50:05 AM

Daddyskittin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: redbeard71901

A Submissive and a Slave? For my experience I have found a great deal of differance between them. But yet I still see people catogorising them together sub/slave. What do you all think?

Their different.

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RE: Is there a Difference Between? - 9/21/2007 4:07:02 AM

AquaticSub

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In my book, the only difference between a slave and a submissive is what their owner calls them.

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RE: Is there a Difference Between? - 9/21/2007 4:52:36 AM

sambamanslilgirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleWolvenOne

One defintion that I have heard many people relate to is this:

A submissive enjoys and needs to be told to and taught how to serve some one, enjoys control, wants supervision.
Good for dominants who enjoy control and management.

A slave enjoys and needs to be allowed to serve with out needing or wanting supervision or control.
Good for dominants who enjoy more freedom and less responsibility.

i've heard it's the opposite ...then again there's no clear cut and dry definition to follow. it's how your SO defines it.

i'm a submissive who's allowed to serve without the need of micromanagement or supervisory control.

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RE: Is there a Difference Between? - 9/21/2007 7:41:47 AM

TreasureKY

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

I think "submissive" has three syllables and "slave" has one. Any distinction beyond that is largely personal and subjective.

lol... I'd have to agree.

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RE: Is there a Difference Between? - 9/21/2007 8:55:09 AM

VaWolf

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Everyone has there own definition of the two. My personal belief is pretty close to what was already said, that they over lap. People lump the two together, submissive and slave, sometimes as they are both bottoms or that they both surrender control, sometimes maybe out of ignarance, and sometimes maybe because in their definition, the way think of them is enough of the same thing. I consider a slave a bit deeper than a submissive. Submissive, is a trait. A submissive can still be a great leader and a very outgoing person, but submissiveness is still a trait. A slave I believe is more of a position to someone. I agree a lot with tricia and LittleWolvenOne, their posts were great.

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RE: Is there a Difference Between? - 9/21/2007 9:31:00 AM

breatheasone

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I identify as a slave...not a submissive....having said that ...I'm probably one of the most "assertive" slaves I know LOL. (just ask my Master OYE!) now I have some very clear ideas in my own mind what a slave is ...and why I consider myself that instead of a submissive...of course they are just my own personal definitions and would mean very little to anyone else.

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RE: Is there a Difference Between? - 9/21/2007 9:38:16 AM

mmb1

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to me it is individual, between the two and there is no certain "definition", and you can also be both or a combination, it really is one of those things like most, that is up to the individuals.

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