Defend the Right! Attack the Wrong!

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KnightofMists -> Defend the Right! Attack the Wrong! (9/20/2007 7:08:15 PM)
Well… I am bored…and surfing for amusement… and well… alittle nugget of gold was found. "One has not only a legal, but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws." - Martin Luther King, Jr. From time to time we see on the forums the idea that we are free individuals to choose our own preferences and kinks. That we are free to choose our relationships be they healthy thriving experiences or unhealthy destructive ones. But…. Because we can choose doesn’t equate that the choose is a good one or even a right one for ourselves. For some we have the good sense knocked into us and we make a different choice…and then life goes on. For some we continue on this road of self-destruction… because it our choice. After all.. are we not free to choose to make a choice to our own self destruction (knowingly or unknowingly)? But…. Does that mean the rest of us should just turn away or applaud and support someone that makes a choice that lead to their destruction in their given relationship? Well MLK Jr’s statement is a golden one to consider it’s implications What if the statement went something like this: “One has not only the right of choice, but a moral responsibility to support another’s right to choose. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to rise against harmful choices!” MLK Jr reference of Laws is but Choices that Society make to govern itself. That good laws make a society that grows and prospers. That individuals within that society can be treat with a balance of equality and fairness. Unjust laws are harmful to society as a growing culture. Unjust laws tear at the fabric of society and as such it in the end becomes to harmful to the individuals within that society. So… what if we go deeper than just society but us as individuals and our individual choices. What kind of a friend, person, human if we ignore another person’s destructive choices. What kind of moral person are we to watch idly by as someone makes choices to that bring their own harm or harm to others. Yes… I will support an individuals right to make destructive choices. I will not stop them if they seek to make a choice that brings them harm. However, I will also not be silent to their choice that in my view is harmful. They may listen… or they may not. Either way…. My own moral conscious is clear Hats off to those that that defend a person’s right to choose. But standing ovation to those that balance it by speaking against harmful choices. Within this lifestyle (considering all the risks and extremities that one could choose from) an important element in all discussions for the betterment of the individuals and the communities they exist in.

RRafe -> RE: Defend the Right! Attack the Wrong! (9/20/2007 7:13:15 PM)
The clear fact is that only an individual chooses thier own destiny. I usually only appease my conscience by speaking up-knowing that I gave input. It's all that any of us can do-until those choices also affect us-then we can act. Anyone else's right to swing thier fist-stops where my nose begins.

MadRabbit -> RE: Defend the Right! Attack the Wrong! (9/20/2007 7:19:35 PM)
Boo! Intolerant Kink Hater! Close Minded! Dont you know the great "Open Minded Umbrella of Accepting All" doesnt allow for other people's actions or claims to be questioned? How dare you suggest people speak up and question or probe into entities and relationships on these message boards that they find questionable or negative value in? Judgemental! Close Minded! Vanilla! Come on everyone...lets all get indignant and snuff the life out of KnightOfMists suggestion that someone on these message boards could possibly have a relationship that might be objectively declared as "harmful"! The Right to Choose isnt enough! You have to be politically correct and positively support and encourage those choices simply because someone made them! We're Open Minded here, Knights!

mistoferin -> RE: Defend the Right! Attack the Wrong! (9/20/2007 7:20:35 PM)
Did you just admit to being a person with morals? Seriously, I think you are going to need more armor.

UR2Badored -> RE: Defend the Right! Attack the Wrong! (9/20/2007 7:22:31 PM)
I would not go out of way to break a law that I felt was unjust or at least gotten caught doing such. not as of yet (I had to add that because when I say never I usually screw myself in a big way) There are alot of archaic laws around some us break everyday. In a similiar context, if you will and I may, my favorite Martin Luther King quote is, "The appalling silence of good people" Speaking up when we have wronged others or in the defense of others who have been wronged as an individual choice. It is something to strive for that's for sure minus the orange jumpsuit. Bring it on, Mad Rabbit [;)]

EternalInferno -> RE: Defend the Right! Attack the Wrong! (9/20/2007 7:29:39 PM)
I strongly believe in personal rights to choose, but I also strongly believe that when I see a wrong that includes danger of any kind, that to be able to sleep at night, I personally must say something. I will admit I might have no right to insist on things being done my way, but I do have a right in love for mankind, to state how I feel. I take into consideration many things and try not to be offensive or take the rights of another person, but I cannot claim to care about someone or society on a whole if I don't act as if I care about them and telling them my concerns over what they are doing is sometimes the only way they will see their error. If someone listens, great, if not, I know I did my part. I may error is saying something by rights I shouldn't have said to someone, but I would rather stand for something I strongly believe and be in error than to say nothing and know I stood for nothing.

petdave -> RE: Defend the Right! Attack the Wrong! (9/20/2007 7:37:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists So… what if we go deeper than just society but us as individuals and our individual choices. What kind of a friend, person, human if we ignore another person’s destructive choices. The kind that recognizes that they may know something, particularly about themselves, that you don't? The kind that recognizes their OWN fallibility? The kind that realizes that not every action is a "choice"? Let me know if i'm getting warm here.

Redoubt -> RE: Defend the Right! Attack the Wrong! (9/20/2007 7:55:11 PM)
All morality is, is simply a social majority decision. So spread the word.. and the word is bikiniwax. Ok ... its two words. Still, more fun than bingo. Remember when women couldn't show their legs in public? Remember when only the totally uncouth would use the "F" word? Remember when pornography consisted of a butt shot? Just keep behaving like adults, and the morally uptight will eventually be outnumbered again. If this strikes you as Hedonistic, I say... "duh?????"

chellekitty -> RE: Defend the Right! Attack the Wrong! (9/20/2007 7:57:08 PM)
speak for yourself....my morality is not a social majority...

UR2Badored -> RE: Defend the Right! Attack the Wrong! (9/20/2007 7:58:59 PM)
Because of my bikiniwax and civil duties, I became a juror in a felony trial. How was that redoubt?

BeingChewsie -> RE: Defend the Right! Attack the Wrong! (9/20/2007 8:13:40 PM)
Quick reply: So something can be harmful unless it is a choice you make or your slaves make it and then if anybody speaks against it, they are close-minded and judgemental but if you do it to someone else you are not....check.

catize -> RE: Defend the Right! Attack the Wrong! (9/20/2007 8:19:20 PM)
I used to think that consent was the saving grace for wiitwd. Many people consent to things that are so deep in the ‘wrong’ bin that I can’t agree that it’s okay. But there they are and they insist they are happy. I sit here at the computer screen and get all analytical about their motivation. That exercise then makes me feel rigid and pompous; so I stay silent. Speak up and get called (shudder, cringe) intolerant. Keep silent and I call myself a coward and risk being viewed as accepting of horrors that I can’t begin to understand. And to be honest I myself have been in situations that were wrong but I could trot out some pretty fancy justifications for it. The words of advice from others fell on deaf ears and I was only able to change when I stopped lying to myself. And now I expend my energy on what is good for me. What do you/we/I hope to accomplish by taking a stand? Debating the rights and feelings of either camp seldom changes anyone’s mind. There are ‘jello sheriffs’ on both sides but nothing gets resolved. As you can see, I’m feeling quite cynical tonight. Edited to add: then again, I found this quote the other day which may or may not contradict what I wrote above "Everyone calls barbarity what he is not accustomed to." Montaigne

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Defend the Right! Attack the Wrong! (9/20/2007 8:35:53 PM)
I will definitely offer what I can- as long as it remains true to myself and in no way prevents someone from making their own choice. And yes, that includes "saving them" from their own self destruction. My sense of needing to be free (in as much as anyone is really free) is far more important than my need to be "right."

slavegirljoy -> RE: Defend the Right! Attack the Wrong! (9/20/2007 9:08:27 PM)
It's more than just a matter of a person's 'right' to choose their own destructive and harmful behaviors. It's something that no one else really has any control over. Experience has taught me that, if someone is bent on self-destructive behavior, no amount of concern or love or talking or intervention can stop them. i've tried. i've seen others try. i have left people, who, after standing by their side and doing what i could to help them get help for up to two years, still refused to do anything about getting the help they needed to fight their disease. i made doctor's appointments for them, drove them to the appointments, took them on vacation, made sure that i wasn't enabling them in their destructive behavior, tried to reason with them, tried to threaten them with leaving if they didn't get help, etc., and nothing made any difference and i refused to suffer along with them any longer. i had to cut my ties and leave them to decide for themself whether they wanted to live or succumb to their own illness and refusal to seek help. Master David's mother was the latest victim of her own self-abuse and Wwe had to watch her die because of it. Even after going through the painful ordeal of watching her husband suffer with and die of lung cancer and, even after being diagnosed with lung cancer, herself, Wwe still had to keep after her to stop smoking. She couldn't drive and Wwe wouldn't buy her cigarettes but, she would still get them, either by asking her friends or when she went out with friends, she would get some and then sneak a smoke whenever she thought she could get away with it. Of course, i could always smell it on her and sometimes i would catch her in the act. i would tell my Master and let Him deal with talking to her and taking the cigarettes away from her. But, even after her death, Wwe were still finding cigarettes that she had hidden in her bedroom and around the house. She didn't want to die but, she didn't want to live badly enough to give up her self-destructive addiction, no matter how much Wwe tried to help her. It's not that i would just turn my back on someone, who i saw was suffering and in need of a helping hand or, at least a word of encouragement for them to seek help in their struggle but, i won't let them drag me down with them and i won't carry the weight of the burden for their health and well-being. Their destructive behavior and/or attitude is coming from within them and the desire and will to battle it has to come from within them. i'm not saying that people shouldn't reach out to someone, who is in pain and in need of help. It's just that i believe a person's will to live and to be well is something that they have to decide they want. And, no one else can will them to do so, no matter how much you love them or want to help them or wish for them to get help and be well. As far as i have seen, there is much more self-abusive behavior than there is abuse at the hands of others. my view..... slave joyOwned property of Master David_____________________________________________________________"Grow beyond your circumstances and realize your greatest possibilities."

laurell3 -> RE: Defend the Right! Attack the Wrong! (9/20/2007 9:57:53 PM)
I guess the question of when to stick up for someone else's unhealthy decisions becomes where do you draw the line? What is unhealthy? Is what's unhealthy for one person healthy for another? While on an everyday basis for a career I try to save people from themselves, which only works if they want to be saved, I find it's difficult to get a sense of what is really going on from snippets of chat on forums to offer sound advice, and then again part of me says, there are many that would say what I do in a d/s sense is unhealthy as well, so who am I to offer advice at all? I will jump in when someone is trying to manipulate them into something they clearly don't want to do almost every time, however. A wise man once told me early on in my profesional career....We cannot be life preservers to people that insist on wearing concrete shoes...I think that is always a good rule of thumb to remember. There are some people here that really do want advice either because they are new or have lost perspective, others, it's somewhat clear want only negative attention, I try to avoid those.

mistoferin -> RE: Defend the Right! Attack the Wrong! (9/20/2007 10:05:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: laurell3 A wise man once told me early on in my profesional career....We cannot be life preservers to people that insist on wearing concrete shoes...I think that is always a good rule of thumb to remember. That is wise advice and very true. However, just because we can't save people from themselves does not mean that we shouldn't offer the suggestion that concrete shoes are probably not the best choice for swimming attire.

laurell3 -> RE: Defend the Right! Attack the Wrong! (9/20/2007 10:08:17 PM)
I offer it all day, every day and yet I watch them dive in in concrete shoes all the time...and swim...they do not. These are situations where I have a very good idea what's going on, my main point is I don't really ever know what's going on from a forum ( the shoes might just look concrete here) and again, the concept of "unhealthy" is slippery in bdsm.

BruisedHick -> RE: Defend the Right! Attack the Wrong! (9/20/2007 10:14:20 PM)
I cannot save someone from their own destruction, nor would I want to. What I can do is offer the perspective I have from my seat, and try to show them why I think it is harmful. They may then either try to show me their perspective, or tell me to politely go fornicate with an iron stick. Either way, I have done what I can, but allowed for my own prejudice. If they want to do it, they'll do it. Everything else is doing the same as the Christian right. You want freedom? Accept responsibility (and the occasional casualty)

ocilla -> RE: Defend the Right! Attack the Wrong! (9/20/2007 10:19:03 PM)
nice post lauren

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: Defend the Right! Attack the Wrong! (9/20/2007 10:24:47 PM)
i look at it this way Do what ever you want . Be what ever you want. As long as what you do does not interefere with my life or what i do. Then It is all bets are off people are sue happy. Drama intrenched monkey turds. if they are not happy screwing up their life they will be more then happy to screw up yours. Life is a tv show just do not know what channel some people are on

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