RE: Allowing your sub to play with others

RE: Allowing your sub to play with others (Full Version)

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Lumus -> RE: Allowing your sub to play with others (9/22/2007 6:30:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: girlygurl When I first began to play with my Sir I was playing with two other men. Eventually He required me to ask His permission prior to playing with them and afterward He had me write up a detailed report sharing what took place. Soooo… there came a time when I decided not to play with anyone else outside my relationship with my Sir. It’s been several months and I’m contemplating the idea of playing with another within the lifestyle (the other two were not). I thought if I asked my Sir if I could play with another Dom that would respect His rules, and undertood safe, sane, and consensual play He would agree to my request. He has said no to my request and states that He doesn’t want me to seek a “playmate” for the wrong reasons. Wrong reasons? ummmm I’m lonely? I’m in love with Him and He does not share the same feelings? I don’t want to focus solely on Him because it hurts too much? He’s not monogamous so why should I be? Oh, and the obvious… I like to play!!!! My question to you is…. If you allowed your submissive to play in the past, why wouldn’t you allow her/him to play now? Thank you In my own circumstance [which would vary from yours; I don't personally do well in relationships involving any form of commitment without love], I would say that the reasons vary. I have done this precise thing before. At the time, my reasoning was based on what I believed my submissive required. To elaborate without being too personal - the relationship began poly. We discussed poly and monogamy at length several times before going monogamous. This was a mistake on both our parts, as she needed poly; whereas I could [and can] tolerate poly but preferred [and still prefer] monogamy. The issue was compounded by her choices of playmates and a lack of communication on both our parts. We parted ways, but have remained friends. I don't know for a fact if that is the case here, though I believe it's not merely by its nature. You have defined this as love in one direction only. You have defined your needs but I find your quote in reference to his response vague. What are you in this relationship for? Why did you enter it? What did you expect then; what do you expect now? Truth be told, if I put this owner's shoes on I would pause, ponder, and say to myself, "If she took it upon herself to stop playing because of my requirement to be kept fully aware, why does she want to play again - and does she realize I am likely to demand the same restrictions as before? What allows her to handle my restrictions now, as opposed to before?" These are valid questions. Perhaps you should consider them, discover the answers, and approach him once more with said answers to initiate an appropriate dialogue.

Redandtreasure -> RE: Allowing your sub to play with others (9/22/2007 7:06:43 PM)
Personally I think its wrong of him to demand that you now be true to him while he is going out and playing with others. He’s saying to you "I can fuck and play with who I want and when I want but you can only play and fuck me" In a vanilla relationship and in the lifestyle that is called cheating. It should never be condoned by anyone at any time. If you are in a poly relationship then that’s fine that means that the two of you are playing with others and the two of you are both having relations with other people. But for him to say that to you let me say it again he is cheating on you. My only advice to you is move on with you life and say good by. The only thing he needs to see is your back as it walks out the door.

arayofsunshine55 -> RE: Allowing your sub to play with others (9/22/2007 10:05:46 PM)
This is difficult. We are human. You started off as playmates and this has developed into something more. You are now in love with him. So he might not be so taken with your assurance that another would not become emotional. Anyway, I've been there. That has changed for us. We now love each other. But he is married. And so things are what they are. We would not work at all if he was closed to me finding someone who loved me and wanted to share a life with me in ways he can not. What makes us work is our realism about our situation. And that we each want the best for the other and are committed to figuring out how to get that.

susie -> RE: Allowing your sub to play with others (9/23/2007 1:09:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Redandtreasure Personally I think its wrong of him to demand that you now be true to him while he is going out and playing with others. He’s saying to you "I can fuck and play with who I want and when I want but you can only play and fuck me" In a vanilla relationship and in the lifestyle that is called cheating. It should never be condoned by anyone at any time. If you are in a poly relationship then that’s fine that means that the two of you are playing with others and the two of you are both having relations with other people. But for him to say that to you let me say it again he is cheating on you. My only advice to you is move on with you life and say good by. The only thing he needs to see is your back as it walks out the door. I don't agree that it is cheating in the same was a in a "vanilla" relationship. It all depends on the negotiation that took place and the agreement that is in place in the relationship. In mine Master sees and plays with other people. He does not allow me to do the same nor does he share me. That was an agreement that was in place when we started the relationship. I do not see it as cheating when he meets other women. I know that he is arranging the meeting and when it is happening. There are a 1001 different relationships out there. The trick is finding the one that you are both happy and comfortable in.

YourhandMyAss -> RE: Allowing your sub to play with others (9/23/2007 2:32:04 AM)
That's pretty much impossible. Unless you're a robot, I bet you thought you could play with this Sir and not have emotions come into it too. Emotions are part and parcil of being human. Perhaps next time choosing someone who'd be willing to eventually return the feelings would be more feasable. quote: ORIGINAL: girlygurl quote: ORIGINAL: eyesopened THIS submissive will NOT allow emotion to play any part in future playmates... Jeesh! I only signed up for the fun playtime when I met Him, and look what happened!

eyesopened -> RE: Allowing your sub to play with others (9/23/2007 4:04:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Redandtreasure Personally I think its wrong of him to demand that you now be true to him while he is going out and playing with others. He’s saying to you "I can fuck and play with who I want and when I want but you can only play and fuck me" In a vanilla relationship and in the lifestyle that is called cheating. It should never be condoned by anyone at any time. If you are in a poly relationship then that’s fine that means that the two of you are playing with others and the two of you are both having relations with other people. But for him to say that to you let me say it again he is cheating on you. My only advice to you is move on with you life and say good by. The only thing he needs to see is your back as it walks out the door. i don't see the cheating at all in this. The relationship appears to have begun as open and now He wants it closed but only for the OP. It sounds like the OP was hoping that an emotional bond would form and it didn't. We can't control who we fall in love with. to the OP : in my opinion, shutting out emotions in the future places limitations on yourself. Emotions simply are... they are neither right nor wrong. There are lots of variations to open, closed, monogomy, poly, non-exclusive etc. Communication. But i have always held that common relationship GOALS is what makes a relationship work more so than commonality in activities enjoyed. i know couples who are body-fluid monogomous but each plays with a variety of approved partners and everyone is happy. i know poly households where they are monogomous within the family. When everyone agrees on the goals for the relationship then everyone is able to understand their roles within that relationship.

WickedMs -> RE: Allowing your sub to play with others (9/23/2007 9:16:28 AM)
I hate double standards. If the Dom plays outside the relationship then the sub should be allowed that freedom. The only exception is when the parties have negotiated something different. Here, the sub is expressing her wants and needs but the Dom is not listening. He wants to dictate the parameters of the relationship. I seem to think he feels he's getting "bottomed" but the real thing is that she wants to have some rules of the road that everyone respects. If she identified as "slave," then my comments would be different. Master Steven

Maya2001 -> RE: Allowing your sub to play with others (9/23/2007 10:50:49 AM)
It could be that this is not denying you playtime but more with regards to whom. Quite possibly he is fine with you playing in vanilla relationships but not with another dom

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Allowing your sub to play with others (9/23/2007 11:05:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WickedMs I hate double standards. If the Dom plays outside the relationship then the sub should be allowed that freedom. The only exception is when the parties have negotiated something different. Here, the sub is expressing her wants and needs but the Dom is not listening. He wants to dictate the parameters of the relationship. I seem to think he feels he's getting "bottomed" but the real thing is that she wants to have some rules of the road that everyone respects. If she identified as "slave," then my comments would be different. Master Steven Your statements are confusing "Double standards are bad, except when the people in the relationship want them"?

WickedMs -> RE: Allowing your sub to play with others (9/23/2007 11:43:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross Your statements are confusing "Double standards are bad, except when the people in the relationship want them"? You said that... I said, "I hate double standards." The classic double standard is that teenage boys should engage in premarital sex while teenage girls should not. In any event, I think there is a basic misunderstanding between the original poster and her Dom as to the scope of their power exchange.

littlebitxxx -> RE: Allowing your sub to play with others (9/23/2007 5:27:10 PM)
I agree, communication is the key. My ex-Master had a fiancee, another sub and a business he owned. He knew he couldn't spend the time with me that either of us wanted so it was accepted and agreed upon that I could play outside. SM, vanilla, sexually whatever. The rules he set were that my partner always knew I was a sub and there by permission, always condoms, no one was allowed to "Dom" me...easy to abide by. I gave him full detailed reports afterward and, if it was SM, we learned new things to try. It was a situation that worked for us. I loved him in a sub-to-Master kinda way, not romantic at all, and he felt the same. Poly-amory can work when the situation is open and talked about because there seems to be an emotional monogamy going on there.

girlygurl -> RE: Allowing your sub to play with others (9/23/2007 7:17:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 Personally, I think you need to reassess why you're even in a relationship with your Sir. Why am I in this relationship? He is a good man and I’m in love with Him. You love him but it's not reciprocated? And you're lonely? That itself sounds like a whole bunch of the wrong pain! The “wrong pain” smiles” yes Focus I would agree with you. You love to play - does going outside the relationship mean Sir doesn't wanna play so much, either?* He and i play when we can make it work within our individual lives. I’d also like to add He invited me to go with Him on vacation. We had a wonderful time and I am so very thankful He asked me along. Frankly, it sounds more like you're seeking closeness and intimacy etc you're not getting from Sir but you want him there as a safety net - while you seek something better? Again, you are correct Focus. I do seek closeness and intimacy etc. and to a certain degree He gives me this. Honestly, He is so many things in my life, He does provide me with much of what I need. I must make a comment about yours… “while you seek something better.” I do not seek anything “better” OK, so everyone will roll their eyes at this comment but………………….. there is NO one better out there! He is a truly wonderful human being. And him - he doesn't want you to play with others but there seems a lack of committment to you, at least that seems how you feel.... This is terribly complicated and messy, IMO. Most common reason people go outside their relationship is because there's needs that aren't being satisfied at home. Seems to me you're clearly not happy in the current relationship - that's what you need to address rather than making it about playing with others and the permission of doing so. Focus.

girlygurl -> RE: Allowing your sub to play with others (9/23/2007 7:28:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lumus What are you in this relationship for? That's an interesting question Lumus. All I can say is that He is my Dom and has become my best friend, confidant, lover, mentor, and has the same interests that I do in and out of the lifestyle. Why did you enter it? Initially I entered the relationship for sex only. I had no idea I'd fall in love with Him. What did you expect then; what do you expect now? I expected great fucking and by golly it's beyond great! He is beyond great! What do I expect now? Good question. I suppose I'll have to look at that and maybe come up with an answer... or just try banging my head against the wall. Does that work? hee hee [:D] Truth be told, if I put this owner's shoes on I would pause, ponder, and say to myself, "If she took it upon herself to stop playing because of my requirement to be kept fully aware, why does she want to play again - and does she realize I am likely to demand the same restrictions as before? What allows her to handle my restrictions now, as opposed to before?" These are valid questions. Perhaps you should consider them, discover the answers, and approach him once more with said answers to initiate an appropriate dialogue.

girlygurl -> RE: Allowing your sub to play with others (9/23/2007 7:34:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Redandtreasure Personally I think its wrong of him to demand that you now be true to him while he is going out and playing with others. He’s saying to you "I can fuck and play with who I want and when I want but you can only play and fuck me" In a vanilla relationship and in the lifestyle that is called cheating. It should never be condoned by anyone at any time. If you are in a poly relationship then that’s fine that means that the two of you are playing with others and the two of you are both having relations with other people. But for him to say that to you let me say it again he is cheating on you. My only advice to you is move on with you life and say good by. The only thing he needs to see is your back as it walks out the door. Thank you for taking the time to read and respond to my post Redandtreasure, however, there is no "cheating" going on. When you use the word "demand" it sounds as though He is some insensitive Dom... He is by far such a person. He is probably one of the kindest Doms/men I've ever known. I just need to deal with Him playing with others as this has always been an agreement between us.... He has never said He'd be monogamous. I just never thought I'd fall in love with Him.

girlygurl -> RE: Allowing your sub to play with others (9/23/2007 7:37:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: susie There are a 1001 different relationships out there. The trick is finding the one that you are both happy and comfortable in. Here's a big hug for you Susie! I like this very much... I'll work on finding the one that works for both of us and that we're both comfortable in.

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