Inquiry From a Switch (Full Version)

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norarc -> Inquiry From a Switch (9/23/2007 1:55:59 AM)

Hello all.

I've had some experience with the submissive side of things, and have enjoyed myself in that regard, but now I find, more and more, that I'm being drawn towards being dominant, hence my self-identification as a switch.  In future, it may be possible that I'll end up completing my move across the spectrum and changing that again to Dom, but for right now it seems appropriate.  Of course, given that most of my experience in D/s is from a submissive angle (and bear in mind that I'm also a beginner here), I'm not entirely sure exactly how to go about learning things "from the other side of the whip" as it were.

I figure that there are a few sources of knowledge on this subject -- experienced Dominants, experienced submissive, and perhaps some literature on the subject (and of course sites such as this one).  I'll likely post a similar note on the "Ask a Master" and "Ask a Mistress" forums, but for now I'd like to get some advice from the submissives out there.  Does it matter if a profile identifies someone as a switch if he/she is looking to take the dominant role, when you review email from said individual?  How does a dynamic between a relatively untested Dom/dominant switch and an experienced submissive play out, and how willing are you to "train" a newcomer to properly train you?  How exactly would you go about it?  Does a "switch" label tend to turn you away from a contactee in favour of more "definitive" Dominants?

Of course, any advice from any angle related to this topic would be welcome.  Thank you, all.



hisannabelle -> RE: Inquiry From a Switch (9/23/2007 2:06:24 AM)

greetings norarc,

as someone who is pretty much comfortable only as a slave - i am willing to top and have done a teensy tiny bit of it to please partners in the past, but it is not something i'd want to be part of my relationship full time - i would tend to shy away from a switch moreso than someone who is completely dominant. that said, i wouldn't be totally unwilling to be with a switch...only afraid that it would be unfulfilling for them because quite honestly i am not interested in switching myself, and i'm pretty much interested (in terms of a primary m/s relationship) in a very involved m/s relationship where i am solely the slave part. if i felt like the other person could come to terms with that and it wouldn't cause problems, i'd go ahead with it...but i'd definitely give it a lot more thought in light of that.

respectfully,
annabelle.



norarc -> RE: Inquiry From a Switch (9/23/2007 2:34:44 AM)

I understand where you're coming from, and perhaps I should clarify myself just slightly by saying that I am not expecting any form of switching on the part of any submissive involved in my "education" as it were; should I feel the need to be somewhat submissive myself, well, that's what dyed-in-the-wool Dommes are for, right?  In this instance, I'm simply inquiring as to some of the ways and means of learning how to be Dominant, and asking submissives/slaves for their own input.

Hmm, I hope that helps explains my purpose here a little more clearly.



hisannabelle -> RE: Inquiry From a Switch (9/23/2007 2:40:59 AM)

greetings norarc,

i apologize, i thought part of the question was about how we personally would react to being approached or the likelihood of our approaching switches as opposed to dominants; that was what i was responding to.

honestly, it really depends on what you want. i think if you are seeking a long term relationship or a relationship involving a collar, my reaction probably will not be all that weird. if you are just seeking to be trained without a long term relationship context - plenty of experienced submissives, dominants, and other switches would probably be happy to train you in various areas. i suppose it depends on what you mean by "learning to be dominant." there are certain techniques that anyone with any experience, regardless of their orientation, can train you to do. there's a lot of it that will have to come from inside of you, just from communicating with other people about certain topics and learning your feelings about certain things, and from trial and error as well. and having been in a submissive position, keeping in mind what you enjoy as a submissive and what is important to you on the receiving end can definitely help on the giving end of dominance.

i hope that helps.

respectfully,
annabelle.



norarc -> RE: Inquiry From a Switch (9/23/2007 2:48:25 AM)

No, you were quite correct when you responded to the question of how one would react if approached by a switch as opposed to a Dom; I suppose for my own part, making it clear what I am seeking through the contact might mollify that reaction somewhat, or at least I hope so.  Still, at this point I would be reluctant to simply change my appellation to Dom to allay such responses, as it would feel rather dishonest, even if that would be the dynamic I'd be seeking.  So I guess overcoming the "switch" label is just going to have to be my cross to bear. [;)]

Yes, eventually I am looking for a long-term, collared relationship, but I recognize that this is not going to happen unless I get a little education and experience under my belt first, and sort out exactly what it is I want, hence the inquiry about how to go about acquiring that education.  Thank you for your tips -- they are much appreciated.



hisannabelle -> RE: Inquiry From a Switch (9/23/2007 3:26:23 AM)

i hope you don't mind my posting again - i don't want to hog your thread, hehehe. i just thought of something - maybe it would be good to make a list of specific traits/techniques that you associate with being dominant and then brainstorm about ways in which you could learn more about them? some things could be more technical, like how to use a flogger or how to do candle wax play, and then you could seek out people that you know, maybe in the local community, to help with that. if you're interested in things like needle play, often there are other resources in the community that one would not automatically associate with bdsm, like piercing parlors, where there are trained people who would be willing to teach (i know one of our local piercers does some things with needle play). some things might be more vague or related to how you would act in a relationship or how you feel about yourself...for example, trust as it relates to being dominant, or your feelings on punishment and discipline and how you would go about administering those - which are things you could dialogue about with yourself and with other people, and hopefully things you can work out through trial and error as you take on that role in relationships.

i was kind of skirting around this earlier but i thought about it a little more while i was in the shower so i thought i'd post. i promise i'll shut up for a bit now! ;)

respectfully,
annabelle.



norarc -> RE: Inquiry From a Switch (9/23/2007 4:15:45 AM)

All very good ideas -- I'll have to go scribble those down.  And worry not about monopolizing the thread -- feel free to fire away.  I am a giant ear waiting for advice. [;)]



TNstepsout -> RE: Inquiry From a Switch (9/23/2007 6:36:01 AM)

Norarc, I've made that change myself so I understand the questions you are asking.  I too was very reluctant to "advertise" myself as dominant when I was so uncertain. What I really wanted was the opportunity to explore my Dominance and to see how I responded to the experience. I felt that was the only way to really know if it fit. But I didn't want to mislead anyone else and waste their time if I was wrong. I spent a lot of time vaccilating about what to do. Over all it was a long process that included nearly a year of just taking a break.

I finally decided to change my profile to Dominant because that is what I was seeking. NOT because I was certain that's what I was. I decided to tell people in my profile that I was a novice and let them decide if they were interested in participating in my experimentation. I also did some online domination. While quite different than real life, it did allow me to shift fully into that way of thinking and get a feel for it. Although brief, it was educational.




AquaticSub -> RE: Inquiry From a Switch (9/23/2007 6:54:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: norarc
How does a dynamic between a relatively untested Dom/dominant switch and an experienced submissive play out, and how willing are you to "train" a newcomer to properly train you?

This very much depends on the people involved. Some submissives/slaves feel that educating their dominant is beneath them, others feel it would threaten the d/s dynamic, others want their dominant to be superior to them and so on. My feelings about the matter is that it is only limiting yourself to turn away a partner because of lack of education when that is so easy to fix.

While I could not teach someone how to train me (I feel that training is simply teaching me how to do things the way they like), I did teach Valyraen about various toys. I showed him where he could get information on his own and with me. We also went to, and still go to, places where we can further our education about BDSM.
quote:


Does a "switch" label tend to turn you away from a contactee in favour of more "definitive" Dominants?

It might a bit. Can't really say. I would probably just talk to them and make sure that they were a switch who would always be dominant to me. I have no idea how it would make me feel to watch my dominant submit to someone else so I might have to make sure of how that made me feel before fully submitting to them.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Inquiry From a Switch (9/23/2007 11:09:08 AM)

It depends on if you intend on switching WITH the person you are in a relationship with.  This is rare.  Most switches form fixed relationships with individuals.  So, you would simply say "I'm an inexperienced dom looking to be with a sub" and go from there.

If you would like to switch WITHIN the same relationship with the other person, you're really going to find it difficult on the long term stable mature scale of things, but it's still possible.

It doesn't matter how MOST people react to training a dom, it only matters how the one you're interested in feels about it.



iammachine -> RE: Inquiry From a Switch (9/23/2007 1:12:17 PM)

Talking and playing with those that have experience is always handy. As a switch, you have the benefit of being able to understand things from both sides of the spectrum - which is a very handy perspective, if you ask me. For example, having been in rope bondage myself, I know how it feels, and that experience has given me a pretty clear idea about what areas might become uncomfortable or otherwise need adjusted. Sure, I could and would learn this by communicating with my bottom, but I tend to try to stay at least one step ahead of them, and that would be hard for me to do if I didn't have that perspective.  WIITWD isn't an exact science, I consider it to be more of an art form.

When it comes to skills and the "tools of the trade" as it were, I've found that most people are fairly willing to talk about what they know, and show you a thing or few. I got into an hour long discussion about different kinds of floggers with one of the local leathermen at a bar night a few months ago, and got to experience what a bullhide flogger feels like (mmm thuddy!). This surprised some people, since very few people  know that I bottom at all (yes, I am listed as a switch here). I tinkered a little bit with the flogger, got a feel for the weight, played target practice with a bar stool. You can learn a lot by watching other players, and trying to simulate what they're doing - inanimate objects are always willing victims, and don't get hurt if your aim is off. I've whacked a usb cable across a room in this fashion before. [8D] After you feel comfortable with targeting, then maybe think about playing with a fleshier victim.

As for things to learn, there's a lot of resources. Books, websites, workshops, individuals. Really, find something specific that you want to learn about and hop to it. I rarely think "I want to learn how to be a top or dominant." I think about whatever activity I want to learn about, and once I've done that, I learn how I can apply it to whatever role. Right now, I'm wanting to learn about suspensions, so I'm like "Hey rigger! How about you show me that voodoo that you do? Is it can be suspension time now?"

Along D/s lines, playing with a confident, experienced sub never hurts. I stress the confident part here, because though some subs may be very experienced, they may have difficulty giving you input as needed (or as requested!). Since you have more experience as a sub, think about the traits that you would like to see in a dom, then see if you can emulate it. When negotiating with a sub, ask them what they would like, and if it resonates with you, see if you can do it. That may seem like a rather submissive way of topping, but exchange to me is about give and take, and you need to learn what works for you somehow. :)

G'luck!



laurell3 -> RE: Inquiry From a Switch (9/24/2007 2:04:03 AM)

I understand your question, because it's how I approached it at first also...but I think other than some things you should not really "experiment" with without some education, you find the person you are interested in and the two of you dictate the experience.  There's really no one set of rules that will apply to every person and one person may be the exact opposite of another in regard to their physical and emotional reactions.    

Be honest about your lack of experience, although I think you will find that experience as a submissive gives you quite a bit more knowlege than you think.  There are still things I don't know, hell I was blindfolded and gagged through most of the procedural stuff, how would I know?  But alot of that stuff you can learn on the net, and I am fortunate to have friends in the lifestyle that let me learn from them.

LA's statement about the fixed relationships also tends to be what I found to be true talking to alot of people to learn. Talking is also a great resource, some stuff just isn't common sense and alternate perspectives can be enlightening.  Other than role play and some "submissive" activities that a Dom might find enjoyable, I really haven't talked to many people that truly totally switch roles in the same couple and I have found it personally true that you identify with a person as a certain role.  That's not to say you can't have fun doing other things, it's just not the same as the roles your relationship naturally have (if that makes sense at all).

Best of luck on your exciting new education though!
l




norarc -> RE: Inquiry From a Switch (9/24/2007 6:15:37 AM)

Thanks to all so far who've taken the time to respond to my inquiry with your thoughts and comments.  Yes, it's been quite the education so far, the more so since I got into a chat session with a pair of lovely submissives who somehow managed to "flip" my switch all the way into "goddamn that's one dominant Dom!" mode.  I don't know -- my switch may be broken after that! [;)]  But however this turns out and whatever I end up identifying myself as, I appreciate all the advice I'm receiving from those more experienced than I.

Keep the thoughts coming! [:)]



chellekitty -> RE: Inquiry From a Switch (9/24/2007 6:28:49 AM)

think of it as a wheel rather than a litteral switch....it works a lot better...one half is the Dom, one half is the sub....there maybe times when you are doing things that are somewhat Dom and somewhat sub, leaning one way or the other or equally so, and then there are times when you are completely Dom and completely sub....and a wheel is much harder to break than a switch...
thats all i really had to say....oh and pay attention to each and everything LA said, says, or will say, she is an omnipotent Goddess.........j/k........
oh and as for possibly posting the same question on another board...don't, its called cross posting, its annoying at best, and against the rules at worst, and it will be yanked if the Mods notice....
good luck
chelle




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