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Insecure - 9/23/2007 9:30:26 PM

CatKnight

Posts: 37
Joined: 8/31/2007
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A few weeks ago I joined this board as an extremely new, confused probable switch and got some great advice. Thank you those who helped before. I think I need it again.

My fiance is 'historically' a switch, but tends to bottom with me - and take a more submissive attitude as well. In general I'm fine with this. I rather like being in charge of a given scene or play, and practicing a more dominant stance with her as helped me be more assertive and confident in regular life dealings as well. All well and good - or at least as well and good as an inexperienced top can expect.

Until a few days ago. She wants to be "taken care of" (emotionally) - to sub as a lifestyle. Again, in general this isn't a major issue. I don't think she has the temperament or desire to be a full fledged slave, nor do I really want one, so I imagine between us we'd find a workable balance of just what that means - a lighter touch and so forth.

And yet. I first felt it the first time I topped as part of a planned scene. She safeworded - I felt at the time - early. Then when I tied her wrists before she slept - as part of the scene/power balance vs. anything - half asleep she loosened and untied herself.

I was angry. Annoyed that she didn't seem to be playing by the agreed upon rules. It was a self-righteous....I don't know. Petulance? It wasn't fun though, and why bother if it's not going to be?

That resolved easily enough, but still the doubt lingers - and now if she wants to experiment with it as a lifestyle - every time I imagine what it would be like, all's smooth enough...but if I imagine her doing something 'wrong' - or she has her faults like everyone else ... I can feel that smoldering righteous something far, far back. A sense that whatever it is should be 'corrected' - by force if necessary.

And yet I have no interest in 'breaking' or changing her. We wouldn't be getting married if I wasn't perfectly happy with what she is. I dread the inevitable clash between that desire, and a 'dominant' role expecting the sub to comply.

I'm afraid of it. I have no reason to suspect I'd hurt her - I've never raised my hand in anger to anyone, and haven't been in a fight in twenty years - but for all the confidence and assertiveness trying out this role has given me....I don't trust whatever this is lurking far back there. It's ugly and I don't have the faintest clue where it's coming from. I know better than to scene while it's active ... but I still don't trust it. And it REALLY bothers me that it's trying to creep into a stable, loving relationship.

Am I misunderstanding a dom's role (as opposed to top now I think)? Do you expect your sub to comply? If so, what do you do and how do you feel when they don't? Am I just nervous with this new role and responsibility, or is there a problem waiting to happen?

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RE: Insecure - 9/23/2007 9:35:30 PM

RRafe

Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CatKnight

A few weeks ago I joined this board as an extremely new, confused probable switch and got some great advice. Thank you those who helped before. I think I need it again.

My fiance is 'historically' a switch, but tends to bottom with me - and take a more submissive attitude as well. In general I'm fine with this. I rather like being in charge of a given scene or play, and practicing a more dominant stance with her as helped me be more assertive and confident in regular life dealings as well. All well and good - or at least as well and good as an inexperienced top can expect.

Until a few days ago. She wants to be "taken care of" (emotionally) - to sub as a lifestyle. Again, in general this isn't a major issue. I don't think she has the temperament or desire to be a full fledged slave, nor do I really want one, so I imagine between us we'd find a workable balance of just what that means - a lighter touch and so forth.

And yet. I first felt it the first time I topped as part of a planned scene. She safeworded - I felt at the time - early. Then when I tied her wrists before she slept - as part of the scene/power balance vs. anything - half asleep she loosened and untied herself.

I was angry. Annoyed that she didn't seem to be playing by the agreed upon rules. It was a self-righteous....I don't know. Petulance? It wasn't fun though, and why bother if it's not going to be?

That resolved easily enough, but still the doubt lingers - and now if she wants to experiment with it as a lifestyle - every time I imagine what it would be like, all's smooth enough...but if I imagine her doing something 'wrong' - or she has her faults like everyone else ... I can feel that smoldering righteous something far, far back. A sense that whatever it is should be 'corrected' - by force if necessary.

And yet I have no interest in 'breaking' or changing her. We wouldn't be getting married if I wasn't perfectly happy with what she is. I dread the inevitable clash between that desire, and a 'dominant' role expecting the sub to comply.

I'm afraid of it. I have no reason to suspect I'd hurt her - I've never raised my hand in anger to anyone, and haven't been in a fight in twenty years - but for all the confidence and assertiveness trying out this role has given me....I don't trust whatever this is lurking far back there. It's ugly and I don't have the faintest clue where it's coming from. I know better than to scene while it's active ... but I still don't trust it. And it REALLY bothers me that it's trying to creep into a stable, loving relationship.

Am I misunderstanding a dom's role (as opposed to top now I think)? Do you expect your sub to comply? If so, what do you do and how do you feel when they don't? Am I just nervous with this new role and responsibility, or is there a problem waiting to happen?

Do the same I had to. Realize it's "roleplaying" not "real." And get over yourself.

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(in reply to CatKnight)

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RE: Insecure - 9/23/2007 9:45:34 PM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
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Give it time. You had a taste of it and now you want more, a lot more. So her calling red was like giving you an ice cream cone and taking it back when you only had one lick.

If the relationship has potential, you have to accept that it isn't a fantasy, and there are times you both must compromise. If you can give as much as you get, you will get enough. If you keep trying to take and not give, she'll keep pulling back.

Don't want her to red? Then learn her limits and tolerances and don't exceed them.

He won't tie me overnight because he says there's too much risk of something going wrong. Did you ask her why she undid the tie? Is she afraid of nerve damage during the night while you both slept? Is she afraid that she'll get up half asleep and fall over because she's tied? Solve the fears and problems and she'll be more likely to agree, ignore them and she'll conclude you aren't safe to be trusted with so much control and she'll have to take back control.

Basically, you aren't going to starve to death here, so stop trying to grab everything at once and pile your plate so high. Have a little and go back for seconds, and thirds, and ...

(in reply to RRafe)

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RE: Insecure - 9/23/2007 10:33:18 PM

SolarAndViolet

Posts: 85
Joined: 8/26/2007
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Knowing only some of the details does make it a touch more difficult, but every relationship, in and out of the lifestyle, has its challenges.

When rope gets untied that easily? Work on improving your knot tying skills, or work with different materials. Several knots can be done that will cling close to the flesh yet not be constricting, permitting long term use. Of course, putting some limbs in certain poses might not always be something that can be held for long periods of time. Similary, I have a nice set of leather bondage mitts that take away the thumb from use. They can be wrapped palm first around something, like, say, a headboard pole, and then linked from fingertips to wrist. Makes it tough to slip out of the buckle.

She used a safeword to get out of a scene 'too early'? Well, did you warm her up and build on sensation or just dive in? If the latter, then it's a matter of improving technique now with this feedback. If the former, and she still used the safeword 'too early', sit down and talk about it. Communicate with this person that you're willing to marry. Why did she drop out early? Was she scared? Anxious? Did you trip a trigger you didn't even know about? Was she bored and you need new tactics? Was she suddenly uncomfortable losing 'that much control'? Too many unknowns for us.. and, frankly, for you. Ask.

Relationships differ. Some like a quiet, obedient sub. Some like a sub/bottom that's going to fight and wants to be shown who the stronger one is. Some like a sassy mouthed girl that can be shown his or her place with more than just a beating. So what do you have on your hands? What type of person is she, do you know? Does she know or has she even given it consideration? What do you want to be to and for her?

Understanding your 'role' depends on what you want, what she wants, where areas need compromise or someone to be assertive. There is no singular catch-all dynamic. This isn't the beginning of the relationship where you go "this is what I expect and you'll comply or we'll part ways" like I see on some people's profiles. There's an established set of interests and expectations. When desires and interests change, you'll need to do two things: communicate and compromise. I can't see another option.

Your mileage may vary.
-Solar

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Happy to be owned by Sir (V) (violetaelf)

(in reply to CatKnight)

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RE: Insecure - 9/23/2007 11:34:40 PM

FullfigRIMaam

Posts: 718
Joined: 6/21/2007
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quote:

Do the same I had to. Realize it's "roleplaying" not "real." And get over yourself.

Who knew? I'm absolutely not roleplaying in that I expect one of us will lead, and the other will follow. I've had it in the past, and will have it again. Role playing I will do on occasion with my boy.

To the OP, it takes time to get to know one another's desires/comfort zones. You two need to discuss your wants/needs, and decide what works for you. Perhaps she really only wants to bottom when she feels like, and to the extent she feels like, rather than submit to you and your wishes. It sounds to me like she wants to play bottom to your top, and isn't entirely trusting/comfortable with your topping just yet if she continues to call out safeword. Even as I experimented and the boy knew he might get hurt, he never said stop/red. M

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"touching was and still is and will always be the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni
"Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence." Erich Fromm

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RE: Insecure - 9/24/2007 5:48:36 AM

chellekitty

Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe
Do the same I had to. Realize it's "roleplaying" not "real." And get over yourself.

I believe what FullfigRIMaam was trying to say RRafe is...

you roleplay...its real for a lot of us...

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One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

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RE: Insecure - 9/24/2007 6:02:00 AM

SirCache

Posts: 159
Joined: 3/26/2005
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Changing roles means that certain adjustments to your expectations will also take some time. Try to communicate more about what each other needs as part of your role in these new changes because you may have very different understandings of what is wanted/desired at this point.

A Dom should not react out of anger, and I may catch some flack in saying that, but punishing someone is about correcting a problem, not establishing vengeance for having been wronged. A Dom is to provide structure and guidence, but it has to be done in compliance with what a sub is capable of physically and emotionally. You may need to renegotiate what she is capable of and what she identifies as essential in the relationship as it continues. Of course, how you establish discipline is a matter for your own househould, but until you can each agree on the rules, it makes little sense to berate her for not complying with something.

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RE: Insecure - 9/24/2007 6:08:48 AM

LadyLynx

Posts: 1098
Joined: 7/24/2007
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I like what Celeste said best. the best thing for your relationship are these 3 things: Communicate,communicate, oh and of course who could forget, communicate! take your time, ask if she wants to build up her tolerance. Are you in touch with your local community? If there is one nearby, I strongly suggest you connect with them if you haven't. While alot on here can give some good advice, it is better getting it in person.

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Our community maybe openminded as a whole, but it is still made up of individuals who bring in their own opinions,baggage and agendas!

Known as SwitchWitch in my local community,and on IRC Bondage.

I also go by the nic SwitchWitch on MDS.

(in reply to chellekitty)

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RE: Insecure - 9/24/2007 8:12:16 AM

LadyHugs

Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
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Dear CatKnight, Ladies and Gentlemen;

Communication is needed always and forever. Communications goes both ways, as not telling how you feel as much as not telling you how she feels; assumptions will be made and that isn't fair to either one of you. Sometimes we (in a general sense) do not understand how our (in general sense)words and or deeds affects/effects another.

You may wish to create boundaries that both of you can agree to and change when the time comes when the have been outgrown. May wish to use code words as to measure each other's feelings and or comfort levels; such as if in a blue mood, use "Blue" and then give a level from 1-10, where 10 is extremely blue--not the best time for anything but, support and comfort. These you can both use; to which it is short and to the point--avoiding lengthy exchanges.
Since people can look at a glass that is half full or half empty and both can be correct--finding dialog that works best for you as to be able to exchange the energy and life to the relationship when in the moment.

I would also petition thought--that the lass untied herself, as to permit you to sleep as she took care of the bathroom needs she may have had and or taking medicines. It is easy to immediately think the worse in behavior of another--it may have been most compassionate in it's intent. Of course, many reasons can be offered. But, in all seriousness--never deny any --access to bathroom, food and drink, medicines and or emergency access.

Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

< Message edited by LadyHugs -- 9/24/2007 8:13:50 AM >

(in reply to CatKnight)

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RE: Insecure - 9/24/2007 8:31:51 AM

RRafe

Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe
Do the same I had to. Realize it's "roleplaying" not "real." And get over yourself.

I believe what FullfigRIMaam was trying to say RRafe is...

you roleplay...its real for a lot of us...

I know. But don't expect to be taken seriously by those who see it differently.

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to chellekitty)

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RE: Insecure - 9/24/2007 9:27:39 AM

toservez

Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMaam

quote:

Do the same I had to. Realize it's "roleplaying" not "real." And get over yourself.
Who knew? I'm absolutely not roleplaying in that I expect one of us will lead, and the other will follow. I've had it in the past, and will have it again. Role playing I will do on occasion with my boy.

To the OP, it takes time to get to know one another's desires/comfort zones. You two need to discuss your wants/needs, and decide what works for you. Perhaps she really only wants to bottom when she feels like, and to the extent she feels like, rather than submit to you and your wishes. It sounds to me like she wants to play bottom to your top, and isn't entirely trusting/comfortable with your topping just yet if she continues to call out safeword. Even as I experimented and the boy knew he might get hurt, he never said stop/red. M

I actually like both of these replies although to assume she can only role play or both of you is going a tad too far.

As others have mentioned communication is lacking and especially in the area of what you two are wanting out of the D/s life. Obviously too little information shared but you two just need to have a series of long discussions on how you want to live that is specific in nature and not in general.

Get on the same page. Find out if the kink aspects are only for fun or become important to creating and keeping the right power exchange atmosphere between you two as well as other things both of you are wanting in the relationship. See if her vision is just different or she will need time and mutual effort to work toward what she wants and hopefully you want as well.

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

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RE: Insecure - 9/24/2007 9:47:37 AM

Redandtreasure

Posts: 26
Joined: 10/21/2006
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Communication is the key here and although the two of you are new to this life style and you are only giving us a little info what you have given I think is enough to go on in some cases.

Im taking a stab in the dark here and going on what you have made it sound like but it sounds like you are trying for what is called a 24/7 lifestyle or as close to it as you can. If this is the case it is never good to start out that way and for some couples it is not a way of life that they choose to live. Some couples choose this lifestyle and love it but they only "play" once a week or once every other week or when ever they feel the need. Some people do not agree with this and others do agree with this type of thinking.
If you are only "playing" once in a while talk out the scene in detail with her so she knows what you are going to do and if you want to do some things that you have not talked about tell her you want to surprise her with a few new things while you "play" But while you "play" you have the control and unless she safe words she will be punished for doing wrong. Make sure the punishment fits the crime never go over board even if that means you have to take 5 minutes out to calm down. You never do anything to her while you are mad or angry. Always keep a level head.
Some may dis agree with me here but to bind ones hands above there head while they sleep is a punishment in its own right. Think about it what happens when you raise your hands above your head even when you are in a horizontal position? The blood drains from your hands and arms slowly and when you wake up they are asleep. This is because your heart cannot pump sufficient blood and oxygen to them. It is slow it can be fun but it is a small punishment none the less or at least it is in my book. Every ones book is different though. What I call small someone else may call big or extreme.
In her submissive mode she is probably pushing your dominance to see how far you will go to correct her. This is a common thing among submissive. That is why it a so important to set a time limit if you are to "play" once in a while. So she knows that during the hours of this to this she is in this mode once these hours are over then the cool down will ocure and the two of you will resume your normal living.

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RE: Insecure - 9/24/2007 10:43:53 AM

Perplex

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I agree with most of what has been said and it cannot be harped on enough, keep talking, and keep finding things out, both of you on both sides of the equation. not just about "the lifestyle" or even about each other's wants of the moment, if the relationship is solid, keep it that way by never taking anything for granted.

otehrwise if you want to "correct" the behaviour and don't want to use "violence" (paddling, caning etc) when she stops playing nice, you stop playing all together. Pick her up out of bed, carry her down to the couch and plop her down then go back to bed, letting it be known you'll share it with someone who knows what they want...if she doesn't want the scene, then great, if she does then it is only cute so long with her misbehaving from caprice (unless that is her goal to get you to react with a spanking..in which case you need to read back about the part of communicating) until it ruins the "game".... I've found ignoring a bad dog a or a bad sub will result in a greater need to do the required result than anythign else you can do over the long term. It also helps down the road 10-15 years when you just want a "me" day and go out to the garage to play/work, she'll spend the day trying to figure out what she did wrong and leave you in peace. It is suprising how well that works.

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RE: Insecure - 9/25/2007 11:03:25 PM

CatKnight

Posts: 37
Joined: 8/31/2007
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Thanks everyone for your comments and general advice. I appreciate it!

I'm not in the least worried about the specific situations I described. I only mentioned them as the first time I felt that way.

The safeword use was simple disagreement on what it meant. "Yellow" means that something is not emergent/a limit hasn't been reached, but we need to stop and reassess. I took it to mean a minor problem like a restraint too tight. She took it to cover the whole gamut - including being a bit bored with the activity. So that gets down to communication and technique.

Similarly, freeing herself wasn't really a conscious act - and tying her probably wasn't the most brilliant move I could make. As Celeste says, there are potential hazards even if I'm right there next to her. That comes down to learning knots, technique and putting some thought into what I want my "role" to be like.

THAT is where my problem lies. I imagine ending up being some domineering, cruel SOB... and that isn't what I want for us. Interestingly, the thread around here somewhere about 'kind' masters had some valuable advice for me.

Solar - your advice is very valuable. I'm still trying to figure out what she wants. From what she tells me it seems to be more along the lines of the quiet, obedient type. Yet I know her. She is free with her opinions and not always the best at authority.
As for me, I'm certainly fine with leading, but it's not quite as Celeste suggested - 'getting a lick of ice cream and having it taken away' - it's more a dread of going too far with my expectations.

Yes, I know. Communicate. More on that in a bit.

Full: You pretty much had the same reaction I did to that statement. I know what "roleplaying" is. That's fine for a given scene or when you're intentionally trying something new. We're drifting into a more permanent power exchange though, and that's not a roleplay.

Sir Cache: I agree entirely when you say not to act out of anger. It was the first thing
she taught me, and I couldn't agree more. I'm not even sure I'm worried about acting out of anger, so much as..hm. So much as that if I'm in charge, I have to be right. Which is insane.

Lady Hugs: Oh, she didn't untie herself to deal with an emergency. She was half asleep, did it unconsciously and went to sleep. Certainly I wouldn't consider leaving someone bound and alone, or denying them basic necessities.

Red: Well...*I* am new. She is not. She has 20 years experience on me. Which on the one hand leaves me in awe, and the other hand makes me well..insecure. Very insecure. Especially since she seems to be upping the stakes.

Usually communication is our strong point. You're absolutely right though - it failed here. My fault. I was so caught up in my worries I didn't share my doubts about what she was proposing. I suppose I didn't want to worry her.

Pretty much right after I wrote the above post I wrote HER, trying to pin down exactly
what she was proposing, how she imagined the resulting shift in power and so forth. She didn't really answer, so I pinned her down in IMs and expressed my doubts about pulling this off. I asked her what she thought *I* should expect, and what she wanted out of this.

At the time she offered to 'take over' for a few weeks so I'd have a better idea of what such a power exchange would look like. I agreed, but looking at tonight's conversation we seem to have instinctively shifted right back.

Still, it's enough to work with for the moment I think. I think my main keys now are to decide what "I" will expect - and what tone (gentle, stern, etc.) and therefore tricks to make it happen.

(in reply to Perplex)

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