Right to Free Speech, Censorship, blah, blah

Right to Free Speech, Censorship, blah, blah (Full Version)

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sub4hire -> Right to Free Speech, Censorship, blah, blah (9/24/2007 9:15:15 AM)
Not many of you know much about me here. I have mentioned in previous posts that I just started taking a few classes again at the local college. First since getting my degrees 20 year's ago. It has been electrifying in some regards. Frustrating in others. In any event I have one professor who teaches an internet class. How to build websites. We have a course syllabus, etc. The very first day of class I told her my intentions. Living in the middle of American and knowing how repressed they can be. I asked if it was ok for me to re-build the website I already own. www.PassionateSinsations.com She said, yes, no issue. After class last week I get an e-mail from her telling me I could no longer work on my website as it violates the rules of the college. I've since been through them...etc. It violates nothing but a bunch of stuffed shirts. So, currently I am starting a fight for my rights to free speech as an American Citizen. Fighting for my right to not be censored. So, anyone got any good links? Where can I find some excellent information? Currently I am debating creating another website as a fail safe about the first amendment of the Constitution and how some institutions think they can just ignore the laws of this country for their own whims. Need to get it together pretty quick. So, I can display my new work in class this week.

sub4hire -> RE: Right to Free Speech, Censorship, blah, blah (9/24/2007 9:19:44 AM)
I guess I should also add. We are 1/3rd of the way through the class when she decides to change her mind and tell me my website is not appropriate and obscene. The website is 60% of my final grade....so...its a real joy (yes that is sarcasm) to be told this at this late date.

UtopianRanger -> RE: Right to Free Speech, Censorship, blah, blah (9/24/2007 9:27:01 AM)
G - Is there a possibility she wanted to buy a '' love swing '' and just couldn't muster up the courage? - R

sub4hire -> RE: Right to Free Speech, Censorship, blah, blah (9/24/2007 9:33:52 AM)
hehe, she saw that swing last week and just looked at me and told me "You've got guts" Left it at that. If only it were that simple...she could even get a bigger discount directly from me. Anyway I took the day off work today to talk to the Dean of IT. He told me he must stand behind his teacher. Weds I am taking the day off work again to talk to the deans boss.

Politesub53 -> RE: Right to Free Speech, Censorship, blah, blah (9/24/2007 9:34:27 AM)
It`s hard for anyone to give an opinion withut knowing the rules of the college. Did they object due to the adult content or was it because it`s a business web site ? I would imagine if the terms state that students can`t do such and such, then you have no case. Good luck with the web site anyhow.

sub4hire -> RE: Right to Free Speech, Censorship, blah, blah (9/24/2007 9:45:50 AM)
The rules of the college state nothing in this regard that I have found so far. It does need to be in the course outline. It is not. Nor is it in the syllabus. The bottom line is...she did not understand the first week of school that it was sexually oriented. Even though I said....my website is sexually oriented. I sell sex toys....is this going to be an issue because if it is. I will build something else. Since she has cared little about any of the students since then. She has no clue about what anyones final project is on beyond my own. She knows....because of the fact I made it very clear. She did not look into it. Until I carried my second page up to her last week I asked about some graphics I designed...why they weren't showing properly. The dean was a bit shocked when he saw there were no pornographic images on my site...the new one. Essentially they are also saying my business in general is now obscene. Even though, it has nothing to do with them. Bottom line...as of an hour ago. I cannot build my site in school. No real reason why beyond the fact they are throwing the word obscene all over the place. Everyone is 18, it is a private project. No other people in class know what it is on. Just myself and the professor.

Politesub53 -> RE: Right to Free Speech, Censorship, blah, blah (9/24/2007 9:49:47 AM)
I cant see her reason for the change of mind if you were honest from the start. It seems unfair they waited this long to tell you about it.

toservez -> RE: Right to Free Speech, Censorship, blah, blah (9/24/2007 9:49:55 AM)
Free speech has to do with being protected from the government and not from your workplace or school whether publicly or privately funded. Your website is not being persecuted it is just deemed not acceptable/too risky for the school or professor. In fact in some ways you are pushing your views on them as if the school or professor takes slack because someone found this wrong it really would not affect you. You became a student and signed up for the class and these actions had both explicit and implied agreements and personally I think the professor and/or school are well within their scope to do what they did. I do not find it offensive at all but that is not the issue here. Their right to approve or disapprove a project is. You are not damaged one ounce. Free speech is a huge issue and right for all people and in all honestly getting on a high horse because of a school project cheapens the issue in my opinion.

sub4hire -> RE: Right to Free Speech, Censorship, blah, blah (9/24/2007 10:02:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: toservez You became a student and signed up for the class and these actions had both explicit and implied agreements and personally I think the professor and/or school are well within their scope to do what they did. I do not find it offensive at all but that is not the issue here. Their right to approve or disapprove a project is. You are not damaged one ounce. Your above quote is in essence my issue. I also agree they were well within their scope. The first day of class when I made it perfectly clear. Also asked if I should change my project. I was told no. At this point we are 1/3rd of the way through class. I've been working on this project for 6 week's. Class is only another 10. I cannot catch up to the other students at this point. My grade will suffer. Not because of anything I have done. Because my professor decided long after the fact she knew what the website was about she could no longer handle the content. So, yeah I am a bit damaged.

farglebargle -> RE: Right to Free Speech, Censorship, blah, blah (9/24/2007 10:14:30 AM)
I would avoid using the site not because it's potentially objectionable to some, but because it is a COMMERCIAL SITE, and there may be a conflict of interest of some sort. Keep your personal education and your commercial interests strictly segregated would be my advice...

ChicagoSwitchMal -> RE: Right to Free Speech, Censorship, blah, blah (9/24/2007 10:25:03 AM)
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." Congress didn't tell you stop. They didn't write a law that says you couldn't. This is not a free speach issue. I'd like to support you because I think what the teacher did is B.S. but I just can't. As I have a right to censor what comes in my house so does a teacher in her classroom or anyone else for that matter. Only when the government writes a law is it a 1st ammendment thing.

Emperor1956 -> RE: Right to Free Speech, Censorship, blah, blah (9/24/2007 10:37:35 AM)
FR: POINT: The First Amendment has nothing to do with private conduct, as outlined by several posts above. However, if the college is a public university which uses government funds, it arguably may be engaging in restricting speech. Not here, mind you, because the OP has no beef (see points below), but public universities have been held to be accountable under Amendment 1. Servez, if you want cites, email me. POINT: The issue is simply "My servers, My rules." The owner of a web server can restrict content as he, she or it sees fit. If the college says "no commerce" or "no smut" or "no German language" then so be it. If the OP has her own server, and runs the site on her own time and money, that's different. But I bet she's using university resources. POINT: The OP is whiny. Her real beef is that she was generously and erroneously told one thing, and now she's been told the correct information. Oh boo hoo hoo for you. POINT: Isn't this thread really just an attempt to drive traffic to the OP's site? POINT: Here's a real education. I note the OP's website uses a name virtually identical to that of a long established Chicago-based D/s event. And the owner of that event, a famously litigious s.o.b., reads these boards. Wonder what happens when the school project gets a "cease and desist" letter and a demand for accountability of profits? Now that will make a great "Internet business" final class project. I'm just saying.... E.

RCdc -> RE: Right to Free Speech, Censorship, blah, blah (9/24/2007 10:57:03 AM)
If you are using their servers and their products to build the site, I don't see you have any comeback. As it stands, you should have gained written confirmation at least that you could construct a sexually orientated and commercial website to cover yourself. It is nothing more than a she said/but she said disagreement right now and the tutor is going to be the one covered more. Without knowing the written rules that the college have, it's hard to say whether it is the sexual orientation or the commerical use that may be the main issue. It might not have anything to do with the tutor, she could have been pulled up from a higher level - which sucks - but is why written confirmation is vital. Otherwise I don't see that you have much to support you really unless she admits she messed up by giving you incorrect information. Peace the.dark.

Satyr6406 -> RE: Right to Free Speech, Censorship, blah, blah (9/24/2007 10:57:09 AM)
I am almost positive that the first amendment does NOT apply, here; even if the college is a state college. I would offer a suggestion that might seem to be passive aggressive but, what the hell? Why not start a new website? Make it op/ed in content and discuss this very issue on that site (I have a few articles I've written that you can use as "filler"). Is there a risk that the teacher won't find it amusing? Yes. Is there a risk that you might fail the course? Yes. Is this issue import enough to risk all of that? Only you can answer that question. Peace and comfort, Michael

sub4hire -> RE: Right to Free Speech, Censorship, blah, blah (9/24/2007 11:13:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Satyr6406 Why not start a new website? Make it op/ed in content and discuss this very issue on that site (I have a few articles I've written that you can use as "filler"). Is there a risk that the teacher won't find it amusing? Yes. Is there a risk that you might fail the course? Yes. Is this issue import enough to risk all of that? Only you can answer that question. Peace and comfort, Michael Well in the very first post. I did say I was planning a fail safe website. I did ask for links. Still hoping someone has some good ones. Yes, I want to plan the new website with this ordeal in mind. That way when I ask questions...(normally I rarely do in class) and I will ask plenty she will know the contents of the new website. As to those who think I am using their products to build. Nope, I am using my own. Was just using the class as a learning tool to re-develop my site. I do have a store as well at this point. It isn't strictly a web based business. It is all my own money. I pay for my server. I pay for my software...etc..etc. I copyright everything I do.

RCdc -> RE: Right to Free Speech, Censorship, blah, blah (9/24/2007 11:22:46 AM)
But are you working on it in their time? Even writing about it? Even if the site is held on your own domain etc, if you are working on it in their time on their machines - even if you are using your own software - it is still in their time and on their property you may be using - even when researching. Their rules - and if you didn't get written confirmation in the first place, it really is your own 'fault' - any business would get written confirmation first before going ahead with any work. If they however admit that they permitted you to use the site and then changed their mind, then you may have some grounds - but even that is slim. You would have to prove that you were open about the adult content and even then you need to find out just how far you was allowed to go. From the info you provided here, you simply didn't cover yourelf enough from the account you have given here. the.dark.

sub4hire -> RE: Right to Free Speech, Censorship, blah, blah (9/24/2007 11:29:36 AM)
Dark, You're right I clearly didn't get it in writing. I should have. I took the class so I could fire my web guy. I didn't know how to work shopping carts. I've designed a lot of webpages over my time. However, not with the different software. No carts. When money is involved you can't screw up. However the guy who came highly recommended for building the site has really let me down from day one. The site still today doesn't even look the way I had wanted it on day one last year. However, no I am not building it on their time either. It is a home project. I do have the software at home. I build on my own time. As someone else said. Just as I have many times in this thread so far. Bottom line is...I was told I could do it as my class project. Six weeks go by...more than a third of the semester. Now I am being told to change my site. It is obscene. Even though the new site hasn't been declared obscene. The one I am building. My grade is going to suffer because I can work fast but I cannot work that fast to re-build from the ground up. Nothing is being offered to me to off set that. Which is why I want to create a fail safe first amendment...etc site to work on in class. Not like we have any time to work on any of our projects in class anyway....however I want to find time now.

RCdc -> RE: Right to Free Speech, Censorship, blah, blah (9/24/2007 11:36:52 AM)
You know I am on your side here. It sucks the way you have been treated... but it is a big wake up call to everyone who reads this to get written confirmation on all transactions. And unfortuantely they are giving you the grade on that and so it is their call... unless you can get the tutor to admit the fuck up in front of someone else. Sending you the best thoughts the.dark.

sub4hire -> RE: Right to Free Speech, Censorship, blah, blah (9/24/2007 11:44:22 AM)
I know Dark, really I do. It is just frustrating for me. I feel as though I am being unfairly censored and I do plan on fighting it until the end. However, just in case I do fail. I want the fail safe site. Which is why I need good links...etc. That I can incorporate into the new site. Unfair practices...etc. I had 180 pages already designed and built for the new site. Now all of that is trash at least according to the college. I have to start from page one again. I also need to build it quickly between work and pleasure. Satyr offered articles and I am taking him up on them if he still wants to offer. Articles, links or anything is much appreciated.

pahunkboy -> RE: Right to Free Speech, Censorship, blah, blah (9/24/2007 12:32:47 PM)
I looked at your site. This is the worst xxx she ever seen? gag me. I would ask for another professor to grade the site. You cant tell me- that is worse then what one PAYS $7.50 at a movie theator! Nor is it anymore obsceen then over 3500 troops killed. Sex sells- Madison avenue does it. She is knawing at a marketing angle when- the technical aspects are the trhust of the course. I would tell her: look "I am PAYING YOU, to perforn a professional service" "that is to teach me per the course outline/contract." Dont back down. Then, write the school newspaper. The free press you get could drive up sales. You should be graded on the technical aspects of your work. Not the product.... besides- where would 'offensive stop? If you did a site on how to build bombs- how to do contraband- or even an abaortion referral site- same boat. Consider the threat of going on a hunger strike to mourn the loss of democracy as we once knew it...

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