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Acoustic Signature Recognition and IDENTIFICATION - 9/24/2007 9:55:26 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:


Document Type and Number:
United States Patent 6173074
Link to this page:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6173074.html
Abstract:
An acoustic signature recognition and identification system receives signals from a sensor placed on a designated piece of equipment. The acoustic data is digitized and processed, via a Fast Fourier Transform routine, to create a spectrogram image of frequency versus time. The spectrogram image is then normalized to permit acoustic pattern recognition regardless of the surrounding environment or magnitude of the acoustic signal. A feature extractor then detects, tracks and characterizes the lines which form the spectrogram. Specifically, the lines are detected via a KY process that is applied to each pixel in the line. A blob coloring process then groups spatially connected pixels into a single signal object. The harmonic content of the lines is then determined and compared with stored templates of known acoustic signatures to ascertain the type of machinery. An alert is then generated in response to the recognized and identified machinery. 


So what do ya all think?  Does a harley sound like a honda?

Is acoustic signature recognition and identification bullshit?





< Message edited by Real0ne -- 9/24/2007 9:56:49 PM >


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RE: Acoustic Signature Recognition and IDENTIFICATION - 9/24/2007 10:00:50 PM   
farglebargle


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Shit, I know guys who can tell you what shed a concert recording comes from based on the FFT plot.

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RE: Acoustic Signature Recognition and IDENTIFICATION - 9/24/2007 11:07:22 PM   
Ponyboy7


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Nope, it's real. As someone who works in a related field, I know this works.

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RE: Acoustic Signature Recognition and IDENTIFICATION - 9/24/2007 11:13:44 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ponyboy7

Nope, it's real. As someone who works in a related field, I know this works.


Can it work with jet engines ya think?


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RE: Acoustic Signature Recognition and IDENTIFICATION - 9/24/2007 11:25:03 PM   
Ponyboy7


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ponyboy7

Nope, it's real. As someone who works in a related field, I know this works.


Can it work with jet engines ya think?



I would expect so. I would even go so far as to say that it should be able to differentiate different turbines of the same model and manufaturer based on different use patterns. However, applying it to jet engines is certainly not my field, but I don't see why that would not be a valid application.

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RE: Acoustic Signature Recognition and IDENTIFICATION - 9/25/2007 12:05:29 AM   
SilverWulf


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I have seen acoustic and vibration analysis used on various heavy equipment as a preventative maintenance measure.  I was amazed at the accuracy of the predictions given by the technician regarding the possibility of parts and systems failure.

I don't see why it couldn't be used on a jet engine.  In fact, used to catalog an entire fleet of engines.  Each engine would have a distinct signature.  But, that signature does change over time as parts wear and others are replaced due to normal maintenance schedules.  Maintaining an updated catalog of the signatures would be a nightmare.

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RE: Acoustic Signature Recognition and IDENTIFICATION - 9/25/2007 12:17:59 AM   
popeye1250


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The U.S. Navy did it 40 years ago!
They use it to identify individual submarines and "other things."
Of course there are different physics involved.

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RE: Acoustic Signature Recognition and IDENTIFICATION - 9/25/2007 3:43:39 AM   
Termyn8or


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Absolutely possible, and popeye is about right, FFT has been applied to acoustics for quite some time.

Back when they made really good high fidelity speakers they used it as a more accurate way to measure frequency response. This was in the mid to late 70s. They abandoned it for the pink noise method because it gave better readings on the junky speakers they started building, you know, the 15" five way speaker system that only weighs 12 lbs.

This is really only a different form of spectography. It would blow your mind what they can do with that. They can literally detect one pot plant in a three acre cornfield. They don't have to focus, just look for the signature.

Actually I don't see all that much in the way of applications for acoustic modeling of the sort, except for the military. Unless there is a band of thieves stealing jet engines. Yeah, I could see it now, they roust a rich guy after he lands "So just where did you get the engine for that Learjet ?".

T

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RE: Acoustic Signature Recognition and IDENTIFICATION - 9/25/2007 5:52:58 PM   
thornhappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Absolutely possible, and popeye is about right, FFT has been applied to acoustics for quite some time.

Back when they made really good high fidelity speakers they used it as a more accurate way to measure frequency response. This was in the mid to late 70s. They abandoned it for the pink noise method because it gave better readings on the junky speakers they started building, you know, the 15" five way speaker system that only weighs 12 lbs.

This is really only a different form of spectography. It would blow your mind what they can do with that. They can literally detect one pot plant in a three acre cornfield. They don't have to focus, just look for the signature.

Actually I don't see all that much in the way of applications for acoustic modeling of the sort, except for the military. Unless there is a band of thieves stealing jet engines. Yeah, I could see it now, they roust a rich guy after he lands "So just where did you get the engine for that Learjet ?".

T

..and note that for jet engines, you need to have comparable RPM to a certain extent, and the signature will change as you change aspect angle.

Don't try it with a camcorder recording.

thornhappy

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RE: Acoustic Signature Recognition and IDENTIFICATION - 9/25/2007 7:21:57 PM   
pahunkboy


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http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7272874.html?highlight=tree&stemming=on

this looks good!

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RE: Acoustic Signature Recognition and IDENTIFICATION - 9/25/2007 9:36:16 PM   
Termyn8or


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I am sure there are many variables silly.

Just take and TEST the engine at those speeds, and interpret the data. Put it on a CDROM or a harddrive. Then compare the signatures.

Through the varying RPM of course there will be anamolies. Some harmonics will follow the RPMs, others will not. This is part of the science of the whole thing, if you know what I mean. Do you know that the super accurate way of measuring a speaker's frewuency response was done with a single "click" sound ?

The FFT did the job. So what we have now is that they can tell the RPMs of your jet engine as well. While this technology isn't all that complicated, it is not all that simple either.

But I do understand it. FFT and what it emcompasses. They could use it on a human voice, and even a recording that might fool a voiceprint machine, would not fool the FFT. And it was invented how many years ago ?

Think about it.

T

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RE: Acoustic Signature Recognition and IDENTIFICATION - 9/26/2007 8:32:46 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

Don't try it with a camcorder recording.

thornhappy



why not?


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RE: Acoustic Signature Recognition and IDENTIFICATION - 9/26/2007 3:27:25 PM   
thornhappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

Don't try it with a camcorder recording.

thornhappy



why not?


you'd want a nice, decent, calibrated microphone with a wide frequency response and the audio undistorted.

thornhappy

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RE: Acoustic Signature Recognition and IDENTIFICATION - 9/26/2007 9:21:14 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

Don't try it with a camcorder recording.

thornhappy



why not?


you'd want a nice, decent, calibrated microphone with a wide frequency response and the audio undistorted.

thornhappy




How accurate must it be to determine 2 diffrent engine designs from each other?





< Message edited by Real0ne -- 9/26/2007 9:30:37 PM >


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RE: Acoustic Signature Recognition and IDENTIFICATION - 9/26/2007 10:33:30 PM   
Termyn8or


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For FFT, forget a dynamic mike, you need a really good one. There is not a dynamic mike made that does not have resonances. While uneven frequenct response, even phase distortion can be dealt with electronically, a mechanical resonance cannot.

When there is a serious error in the input that cannot be corrected, the output will be incorrect. I didn't say may, I said will.

Yes, expect to pay considerably more than five bux for it.

T

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RE: Acoustic Signature Recognition and IDENTIFICATION - 9/27/2007 10:49:11 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

For FFT, forget a dynamic mike, you need a really good one. There is not a dynamic mike made that does not have resonances. While uneven frequenct response, even phase distortion can be dealt with electronically, a mechanical resonance cannot.

When there is a serious error in the input that cannot be corrected, the output will be incorrect. I didn't say may, I said will.

Yes, expect to pay considerably more than five bux for it.

T


although I hear you I would have to disagree with this one simply because its unlikely to get a resonance in the usable area with a 1/8" diam mic diaphram.

I am very interesteed in hearing how accurate a mic has to be however to be useable in determining 2 different engines regarding the thron post

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Acoustic Signature Recognition and IDENTIFICATION - 9/27/2007 4:28:44 PM   
thornhappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

For FFT, forget a dynamic mike, you need a really good one. There is not a dynamic mike made that does not have resonances. While uneven frequenct response, even phase distortion can be dealt with electronically, a mechanical resonance cannot.

When there is a serious error in the input that cannot be corrected, the output will be incorrect. I didn't say may, I said will.

Yes, expect to pay considerably more than five bux for it.

T


although I hear you I would have to disagree with this one simply because its unlikely to get a resonance in the usable area with a 1/8" diam mic diaphram.

I am very interesteed in hearing how accurate a mic has to be however to be useable in determining 2 different engines regarding the thron post

let me guess....you're going to try an FFT on the 9/11 jet noise to see if it's a commercial airliner vs a fighter aircraft.

thornhappy

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RE: Acoustic Signature Recognition and IDENTIFICATION - 9/27/2007 5:16:46 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

For FFT, forget a dynamic mike, you need a really good one. There is not a dynamic mike made that does not have resonances. While uneven frequenct response, even phase distortion can be dealt with electronically, a mechanical resonance cannot.

When there is a serious error in the input that cannot be corrected, the output will be incorrect. I didn't say may, I said will.

Yes, expect to pay considerably more than five bux for it.

T


although I hear you I would have to disagree with this one simply because its unlikely to get a resonance in the usable area with a 1/8" diam mic diaphram.

I am very interesteed in hearing how accurate a mic has to be however to be useable in determining 2 different engines regarding the thron post

let me guess....you're going to try an FFT on the 9/11 jet noise to see if it's a commercial airliner vs a fighter aircraft.

thornhappy



are we avoiding the question?  I would be very interested in knowing what your expected deviations are since you brought it up.





< Message edited by Real0ne -- 9/27/2007 5:28:40 PM >


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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Acoustic Signature Recognition and IDENTIFICATION - 9/27/2007 5:41:14 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy
let me guess....you're going to try an FFT on the 9/11 jet noise to see if it's a commercial airliner vs a fighter aircraft.

That would fail. The planes flight 11 and 175 in the films are computer generated images. It has been demonstrated that those movies have been tampered with. Presumably the sounds of those airplanes - if those are also in those films - have also been dubbed in correctly.
 
Now a cockpit voice recording, though... Conceivably it might be shown from the echoes, if any, that the cockpit voice recordings of the non-existent flights 11 and 77 were not recorded in a cockpit, or in the cockpit of a different type of plane...

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RE: Acoustic Signature Recognition and IDENTIFICATION - 9/27/2007 5:47:42 PM   
thornhappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy
let me guess....you're going to try an FFT on the 9/11 jet noise to see if it's a commercial airliner vs a fighter aircraft.

That would fail. The planes flight 11 and 175 in the films are computer generated images. It has been demonstrated that those movies have been tampered with. Presumably the sounds of those airplanes - if those are also in those films - have also been dubbed in correctly.
 
Now a cockpit voice recording, though... Conceivably it might be shown from the echoes, if any, that the cockpit voice recordings of the non-existent flights 11 and 77 were not recorded in a cockpit, or in the cockpit of a different type of plane...

and surely there were a bunch of computer-generated landing gear trucks & engine parts scattered around the site, too. 

now as to resonances, Termin8tor's talking electrical resonances, not mechanical resonances.

and you'd frankly have a snowball's chance of getting a decent, accurate FFT of the audio tracks from some ENG gear.

I'll leave the rest up to 8tor.... not worth rebutting.

thornhappy

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