Dominance defined. (Full Version)

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junecleaver -> Dominance defined. (7/22/2005 10:26:34 AM)

So I need to write a little blog on what dominance means. But to be honest I have no idea where to really start. I don't understand how dominance works, so I feel a little unqualified to define it. It's something I can see in a person. But it's also something I can't really find the words to describe.

So what's your opinion? What is dominance?

ps-I looked back six or so pages and didn't see a thread on this topic. Links to previous threads (if there are any) would be appreciated. <3




Isolde -> RE: Dominance defined. (7/22/2005 10:37:09 AM)

I think my view of what dominance is can best be summed up in this quote:

quote:

In ancient Greece, a man might use one kind of power (despos) toward slaves, but use a different kind of power (kyros) to his wife and children. In that patriarchal system, men held the power in the culture - yet vocabulary itself helped men understand appropriate expression of their authority over others. Kyros indicates a legitimate, but more limited, moral authority whose wielder takes into consideration the good of those over whom it is exercised. Such restricted power is not abused.


Dominance, for me, is healthy, compassionate power put to the good of those under their hand.




MistressFire70 -> RE: Dominance defined. (7/22/2005 10:55:01 AM)

Why not start with definitions, then you can make them a play on words. For example, the Master is the Dominant side of the relationship, as your right or left side is the dominant side of your body.

Main Entry: dom·i·nance
Pronunciation: 'däm(-&)-n&n(t)s
Function: noun
: the fact or state of being dominant: as a : the relative position of an individual in a social hierarchy —compare PECKING ORDER b : the property of one of a pair of alleles or traits that suppresses expression of the other in the heterozygous condition c : functional asymmetry between a pair of bodily structures (as the right and left hands)

Source: Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc.

Fire




Faramir -> RE: Dominance defined. (7/22/2005 11:24:08 AM)

I articulate dominance as "My will, not thy will."




EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Dominance defined. (7/22/2005 12:01:09 PM)

Dominance in generic terms to me means effectively exerting authority over another person. Lots of submissives have dominance in their lives.

As I've said in another post, any essay title that sounds like it could or should be the title of a poem is a bad start. "What is Dominance" is definitely one I would consider.




Lordandmaster -> RE: Dominance defined. (7/22/2005 12:41:29 PM)

Sounds more like domineering to me than dominance. Dominance is more like "Thy will is my will."

quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

I articulate dominance as "My will, not thy will."





Faramir -> RE: Dominance defined. (7/22/2005 12:56:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

As I've said in another post, any essay title that sounds like it could or should be the title of a poem is a bad start. "What is Dominance" is definitely one I would consider.



I dunno - some pretty good books came out of "What is the good?" or "What is justice?" etc




Noah -> RE: Dominance defined. (7/22/2005 1:50:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

As I've said in another post, any essay title that sounds like it could or should be the title of a poem is a bad start. "What is Dominance" is definitely one I would consider.


Please advise as to the names of publications in which poems appear under titles like that.

I'm very keen to avoid picking them up

Noah.




EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Dominance defined. (7/22/2005 3:20:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah

quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

As I've said in another post, any essay title that sounds like it could or should be the title of a poem is a bad start. "What is Dominance" is definitely one I would consider.


Please advise as to the names of publications in which poems appear under titles like that.

I'm very keen to avoid picking them up

Noah.

Oh this forum has a whole SECTION of poetry, check them out.




Aecius -> RE: Dominance defined. (7/22/2005 6:17:15 PM)

You should probably ask not, 'What is dominance?' but rather, 'What is dominance to me?' or, 'What is dominance in my relationship?' It's going to vary from case to case.

For me, the exercise of dominance is a specific act of creation, with the materials of flesh and life. The submissive serves as the living and active medium of the dominant's will, for a certain period of time and within established limits, in order to make something wonderful. As with all works of art, the resulting relationship will vary according to the skill, understanding, humanity and vision of the agents. Like any creative process, dominance is good insofar as its product is good.

That said, I don't expect that others will share my view of the phenomenon, nor would they neccesarily expect me to embrace theirs.




junecleaver -> RE: Dominance defined. (7/22/2005 11:34:39 PM)

Thanks for the responses.

My essay sucked, but I suppose it's better that he know I have no literary talents now then later. Ha ha.




Focus50 -> RE: Dominance defined. (7/23/2005 2:24:41 AM)

I guess I'm not here to help....

You're soooo young and I can't help wondering just exactly who's got you doing the kind of onerous task wannabes are so fond of. "What is dominance" is an easy question for me to answer because I'm a Dom! Therefore, I don't need my or any fem/sub telling me who I am or what my role is in her life. I'd much prefer she tell me all about her submissive self and why she needs to kneel before me and serve me - because that's what she knows best; she's the expert! Submitting is difficult for my male/Dom mind to comprehend yet always fascinating to discuss in depth. And I'd only do it r/l, not online.... So I'm seeing a red flag here!

To be fair, maybe this is all harmless and that whoever set you this task has honourable motives and best intentions etc.... But (uh-ohh) at 18, you're also prime target for wannabes and HNG doms who love nothing more than having inexperienced newbies reveal their hopes and fantasies so they can feed them back to you in the form of domination. So when I read your OP, it resounds of some wannabe wanting you to teach him how to dominate you! If he's a real Dom, he'd already know.

My time in the lifestyle is now measured in decades and I still can't really grasp what submission means beyond it being my complimenting need in a partner. He couldn't have set you a more difficult or unrealistic task in asking you what it means to be a man.

While you're doing your task, why don't get him to tell you what it means to be pregnant....

Focus80.




caitlyn -> RE: Dominance defined. (7/23/2005 6:38:20 AM)

Actually, about 90% of the email you get or conversations you have, ask questions at least loosely related to what submission means to you. For me at least, no topic is more difficult. You have to wonder what people are thinking when they drop a bomb like that in a first email or five minutes into a conversation.

I start college in September ... I certainly hope they don't make me write my Master's Thesis on the first day. [;)]




sabis -> RE: Dominance defined. (7/23/2005 6:40:50 AM)

well, since you asked for it... here's my opinion.

"He is a Dominant Man"

~ sabis




junecleaver -> RE: Dominance defined. (7/23/2005 12:52:06 PM)

quote:

I guess I'm not here to help....

You're soooo young and I can't help wondering just exactly who's got you doing the kind of onerous task wannabes are so fond of. "What is dominance" is an easy question for me to answer because I'm a Dom! Therefore, I don't need my or any fem/sub telling me who I am or what my role is in her life. I'd much prefer she tell me all about her submissive self and why she needs to kneel before me and serve me - because that's what she knows best; she's the expert! Submitting is difficult for my male/Dom mind to comprehend yet always fascinating to discuss in depth. And I'd only do it r/l, not online.... So I'm seeing a red flag here!

To be fair, maybe this is all harmless and that whoever set you this task has honourable motives and best intentions etc.... But (uh-ohh) at 18, you're also prime target for wannabes and HNG doms who love nothing more than having inexperienced newbies reveal their hopes and fantasies so they can feed them back to you in the form of domination. So when I read your OP, it resounds of some wannabe wanting you to teach him how to dominate you! If he's a real Dom, he'd already know.

My time in the lifestyle is now measured in decades and I still can't really grasp what submission means beyond it being my complimenting need in a partner. He couldn't have set you a more difficult or unrealistic task in asking you what it means to be a man.

While you're doing your task, why don't get him to tell you what it means to be pregnant....

Focus80.



I didn't meet him on collarme. I've know him for about...three years. But he wouldn't touch me with a ten foot pole until I turned 18. We were friends long before I ever started writing essays lol.

I'm 99% sure he's not a HNG or loser.

I think he just wants to know what I need an expect from a Dominant. Which I tried to give in my essay, but...oh well..I'm not a writer lol.

He's wants in my head. It's kind of nerve wracking lol




slavedesires -> RE: Dominance defined. (7/23/2005 2:11:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Isolde

Dominance, for me, is healthy, compassionate power put to the good of those under their hand.


An innately dominant person will practice this fairly through out his/her dealings with all people, but there will be one special one, that will take this dominance to a higher level and the dominant will exert compassionate control along with the correct amount of strength and integrity to make a submissive yield.

Have you ever watched a wood carver with a tool? Too much power and the carver ruins his carving....not enough and there is no evidence of control or a carver... but just the right amount of control, strength, compassion, vision and force will create a beautiful carving...whether of wood, soapstone, ebony or the most resistant of human being.

Tis the TPE of D/s.

Shy




slavedesires -> RE: Dominance defined. (7/23/2005 2:17:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sabis

well, since you asked for it... here's my opinion.

"He is a Dominant Man"

~ sabis


Very nicely put...thank you for sharing these 2 links.

~~shy




sabis -> RE: Dominance defined. (7/23/2005 3:04:36 PM)

Glad to, Shy. That's probably the piece I am most proud of, of all that I've written. While I wrote it at the very beginning of my journey into submission, a lot of it still holds true. I don't think of it as a 'gift' any more, but rather a mutal exploration and exchange. I should probably revisit the piece sometime soon, as my understanding of my Master and what drives Him is a little more clear .... ::ponder::

~ sabis




Focus50 -> RE: Dominance defined. (7/23/2005 3:19:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: junecleaver

I didn't meet him on collarme. I've know him for about...three years. But he wouldn't touch me with a ten foot pole until I turned 18. We were friends long before I ever started writing essays lol.

I'm 99% sure he's not a HNG or loser.

I think he just wants to know what I need an expect from a Dominant. Which I tried to give in my essay, but...oh well..I'm not a writer lol.

He's wants in my head. It's kind of nerve wracking lol

Maybe he isn't a HNG or loser but if you're only 18 and known him 3 years, I'm now wondering how many other Dom/mes you know and have some experience with to compare him to in being 99% sure....

Doms lead and set the standard for their sub to follow - it's that simple. He's got you turned around,the cart's before the horse here; you don't have the experience or qualifications to know what to expect from a Dominant. He should be teaching and showing you what he expects of you!

Getting inside a sub's head is the core of the D/s dynamic; everything I do with my girl (in a D/s sense) begins with my setting the desired headspace for her. But she doesn't teach me how to get in there beyond being her natural submissive self and wanting/needing the same dynamic I do. Seems to me that you're doing your share in creating that dynamic but your "dom" is sadly lacking.... This not touching you "with a ten foot pole until I turned 18" bizzo is just as likely about him avoiding legal repercussions as it is your own welfare.

But if he's as new to this as you, then forget these painfully ridiculous tasks and just enjoy the D/s dynamic together.... Experience answers questions (and poses even more), so it generally gives you plenty to discuss beyond mere theory! Get your feet wet first and leave the tasks for a few years down the track when physical experiences aren't enough to sustain your appetite for the lifestyle.

Bottom line is that there's more than one way to interpret what you're being asked to do in this instance and you should keep an open mind to that. My experience tells me there's a red flag or two here....

Focus50 (NOT 80!)




Padriag -> RE: Dominance defined. (7/23/2005 5:12:20 PM)

To Sabis

I enjoyed reading your essay quite a bit, I thought it to be a very clear expression of dominance with integrity from a submissives point of view. Something that I found inspirational regarding what it means to be both a dominant and a man was expressed by Rudyard Kipling in his poem If.

If

To Junecleaver

You asked for opinions on dominance, all I can give is my own. Peoples opinions will differ because different things are important to them, what they value is different. What is enlightening is seeing what they value in the opinions and ideas they express. Contrary to some other opinions I think the dominant who gave you this assignment is more interested in that sort of insight about you than anything else. Every dominant has their own method of getting to know a submissive, of gaining insight into them, assessing them and determining what areas need to be focused on. Some use essays and journals as tools to get there, others prefer observing reactions in controlled settings, some just wing it and make it up as they go. Its difficult and a bit rash to judge someone's motives based on a few lines of text. As you said, he wants in your head. If you have concerns about how he is going about that, I would suggest you put those questions to him directly.

But as to my own opinion about dominance I have two definitions I'll share with you. The first is dominance in the abstract, that is the pure concept of dominance. The second is dominance within the context of the lifestyle.

Dominance as a principle or abstract concept is this, the combination of both the ability and the will to project force to achieve control over another, a situation, an object, etc. Dominance is the use of some kind of force, be that physical force (military force, brute strength, etc.), economic, social (peer pressure), charismatic (personal charm, presense, etc.), or intellect (brains over brawn, logical arguments, etc.). Simply having the ability isn't enough... you can have force, but if you don't use it, you will not be in control. Likewise having the will is nothing without ability, achieving dominance requires the combination of the two.

That was the abstract, now for my second definition within the lifestyle which gives the concept a specific context.

Within the lifestyle we use guiding concepts like Safe, Sane & Consensual and Risk Aware Consenusal Kink. As a community we put a lot of emphasis on consent, on being ethical about what we do, and having integrity in what we do. It hasn't always been this way, but its been an evolution of things I consider very healthy. It also affects how we in the lifestyle view dominance. If someone were to force someone else unwillingly into "play" with no form of consent being given I think most of us would call that abuse and criminal, at the very least unethical. Yet taking my first definition it would still be called dominance, it qualifies as the application of force to gain control. But within the context of the lifestyle we add the extra qualifiers of consent, integrity and ethics... and thus we call that form of non-consensual dominance abuse. Its worth noting that despite the emphasis placed on consent, many within the lifestyle still have fantasies about non-consensual play, both dominant and submissives. Its a throw back to that more raw form of dominance without the social constraint of consent, the fantasy of someone so overpowering they can take what they want, and for the submissive the fantasy of being taken. My personal opinion is that this is much of the driving force behind Master / slave relationships where "permanent" consent is given and thereafter the Master can freely "take" what he wishes. And also with force play and fantasy rape, which both deal strongly with the use of overwhelming force without seeking consent. We may have evolved into a safer, saner, more risk aware community, but that does not mean that primal beast isn't still there howling at the moon in the darker recesses of our minds.

As individuals we add other qualifiers too, but which ones vary from person to person. One person might find extreme forms of physical dominance a wild turn on, some one else might feel that would be abusive. One person's humiliation play is another person's mental and emotional abuse. Dom X might apply that "force" in the form of charisma and intellect, Dom Z might be more the physical type. Sub A might respond wildly to Dom Z but be turned off by Dom X while Sub B might be excited and awed by Dom X and think Dom Z a troll. Perception is everything. While dominance is the application of some form of force with the intention of gaining control, the context in which that is done changes what is acceptable and what is not.

That my opinion on it anyway, make of it what you will. [;)]




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