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What's a slave to do? - 9/27/2007 10:25:23 PM

onlyHisgirl

Posts: 101
Joined: 6/13/2007
Status: offline

Hey, ya'll!
i normally don't do this but i am copying and pasting a note from a fellow subbie (all names have been changed to protect the deviants).
she and i have several things in common, but i do not feel equipped (is that a word) to respond to her. i am the last person who should give relationship advice, lol.
i have asked her permission to repost the message. Any advice would be helpful to me and she would be grateful for it. Thanks! --oHgirl
P.S. Background on her:
Long Distance relationship
T/they've never met
she's been into this for 3 years (He's her 2nd Dom...other One was online for two months)
He's "supposedly" been doing this for seven years

-----oHgirl,
thank you for the sweet message

i'm not sure if i want to be in a relationship any longer with Master.

He told me about the girl that e-mailed me trying to tell me that He cheated on me. i knew about her but i didn't know He had sessioned with her!! i mean it's okay that He did that, i guess because i'm not there and well, He does need release...

i want to believe that He loves me and that i'm His whore but i know He's been with others while He's told me that He hasn't. i feel so attached to Him and i know that's silly because we're long distance and we have never met just like you and Your Master, but it's been almost a year for us! A year of His controlling me, of obeying Him, of adoring Him the best i can but i feel like it's all me doing the work.
i guess it's okay for Him to treat me like shit (His words not mine) but i feel like 97% of the time...i'm the one putting out effort or reaching out...i don't feel cared for at all. i feel neglected and i don't know how much longer i should put up with this. i mean i am a submissive...i just have to take it don't i? What do you think i should do, oH?

--------

_____________________________

When i am Owned: i am His girl only...only His girl

Post #: 1

RE: What's a slave to do? - 9/28/2007 12:43:33 AM

Honsoku

Posts: 422
Joined: 6/26/2007
Status: offline

He has been lying.

She is being treated in a way that makes her feel miserable. It is not okay to "treat someone like shit" unless that is how they want to be treated. I suspect that because he has said this, her issues with how she is being treated have already been broached to him and he is non-responsive to them.

He has been lying.

If the representation is accurate, it is past time to go. My parting advice would be to go over old correspondence and try to find the warning signs that pointed towards this eventuality and heed them next time.

(in reply to onlyHisgirl)

Post #: 2

RE: What's a slave to do? - 9/28/2007 1:05:39 AM

SixFootMaster

Posts: 829
Joined: 9/27/2007
Status: offline

Of all things, trust is the most essential, the only unalienable necessity for submission.

(in reply to Honsoku)

Post #: 3

RE: What's a slave to do? - 9/28/2007 1:39:02 AM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

greetings onlyhisgirl,

i have to echo what others have said. she is unhappy, the relationship is not fulfilling, he does not appear to be interested enough to reach out to her, and apparently he is not up front about what he wants the conditions of being with others to be and who else he is with. imho, the best thing would be to cut her losses and stop putting anymore of herself into this, unless he is willing to start doing some of the work in the relationship, too. just because we are submissives does not mean that we do all of the relationship work, because relationships require two people to actually be involved.

respectfully,
annabelle.

_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to SixFootMaster)

Post #: 4

RE: What's a slave to do? - 9/28/2007 1:49:42 AM

DMFParadox

Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline

If his being with multiple partners bothers her, then she should find a new one of her own.

However, the best men... usually do. It's an ugly truth in our society, but it's undeniable; for men, attraction is a skill, and the skilled ones got there by practice. So, if she wants a man that doesn't have multiple partners, she's going to have to give up having a lot of the things that excited her in the first place, or get UNBELIEVEABLY lucky and find a man, with the talent and skill, that isn't already using it on other women. And then she has to ask, "why?"... usually it's not a good reason at all.

If she can accept that he will date other women, then she still has to deal with the fact that he's hiding it from her. That's not as easy. It depends on the circumstance, how she's been approaching him and relating to him. There are reasons why he'd do it that are fair; but usually, it's insecurity, and that's always a bad sign.

Depending on her nature, the fact that he can use her like this and get away with it may be the very thing that attracted her; I've LOST women because I wasn't callous or deceitful enough. So ultimately, any advice we give will probably go unheeded, for good or ill.

_____________________________

bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

(in reply to SixFootMaster)

Post #: 5

RE: What's a slave to do? - 9/28/2007 2:31:47 AM

donnaamarie

Posts: 335
Joined: 9/7/2007
Status: offline

I have to agree with Master Paradox here on all counts and add my own two cents. She has to determine what she wants out of the relationship and if she's willing to settle for being "controlled" long distance for that amount of time, then she should have at it. My belief is that men are not monogamous creatures. Now, that being said, it doesn't mean they have to go around boffing everything in sight, but as women, let alone slaves and submissives, we have to understand that other women have to be in the picture in whatever way the man needs. Furthermore, and my opinion is not going to be at all popular, I can't imagine that they haven't met in over a year. Long distance relationships where the parties see one another ocassionally is hard enough. One based on random phone calls and pixels is frankly going to be a thousand percent harder.

I hope she finds what she needs out of the relationship. She's clearly unhappy. That alone would make the decision for me.

_____________________________

Life is not about waiting for storms to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.

(in reply to DMFParadox)

Post #: 6

RE: What's a slave to do? - 9/28/2007 2:32:57 AM

bandit25

Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline

You're saying the "best" men usually have multiple partners? What do you mean by best? This could quite easily be turned around to say that the "best" women also have multiple partners. I think it might be more helpful for the OP to simply find someone who only wants one.

Attraction, as a skill, is genderless. Whatever skill a man has or has used to attract a woman, a woman can use just as easily. I don't buy that women are monogomous and men are not. People are or are not, not genders. Again, my opinion only.

(in reply to DMFParadox)

Post #: 7

RE: What's a slave to do? - 9/28/2007 2:40:44 AM

SixFootMaster

Posts: 829
Joined: 9/27/2007
Status: offline

The best men are usually not monogamous because they have no need or desire to be. They are unrestrained in their passion for women, and as such see no reason why they should confine their pleasure to one.

That said, if that man finds a uniquely pleasurable and delightful slave or submissive that satisfies their every desire, they may choose by their own will to be monogamous with that person - however such an arrangement would only last for as long as the he was satisfied.

(in reply to bandit25)

Post #: 8

RE: What's a slave to do? - 9/28/2007 2:45:12 AM

bandit25

Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline

Sorry, I don't buy that. Men and women are either monogomous or they aren't. Again, it's genderless. Many women are unrestrained in their passion for men. I don't consider them the best women or the worst women.

Or the arrangement would last as long as the slave was satisfied.

(in reply to SixFootMaster)

Post #: 9

RE: What's a slave to do? - 9/28/2007 2:48:19 AM

DMFParadox

Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline

quote:

What do you mean by best?

Best in this sense means "Best at attraction."

quote:

Attraction, as a skill, is genderless. Whatever skill a man has or has used to attract a woman, a woman can use just as easily.

More easily. Far more easily. But no, it's not genderless, if only because the statistically average woman will be approached by many men throughout her life, while the statistically average man will, if he doesn't go out and hunt *somehow*, go home alone that night. A man approached by an average woman may be scared, but he'll generally try to make the best of the situation. An attractive woman approached by an average man will have to test, to push, and to reject; if she doesn't, then she'll spend 24 hours a day dealing with demands put upon her by those men.

_____________________________

bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

(in reply to bandit25)

Post #: 10

RE: What's a slave to do? - 9/28/2007 2:49:55 AM

DMFParadox

Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline

Thank you, dear.

quote:

ORIGINAL: donnaamarie

I have to agree with Master Paradox here on all counts and add my own two cents. She has to determine what she wants out of the relationship and if she's willing to settle for being "controlled" long distance for that amount of time, then she should have at it. My belief is that men are not monogamous creatures. Now, that being said, it doesn't mean they have to go around boffing everything in sight, but as women, let alone slaves and submissives, we have to understand that other women have to be in the picture in whatever way the man needs. Furthermore, and my opinion is not going to be at all popular, I can't imagine that they haven't met in over a year. Long distance relationships where the parties see one another ocassionally is hard enough. One based on random phone calls and pixels is frankly going to be a thousand percent harder.

I hope she finds what she needs out of the relationship. She's clearly unhappy. That alone would make the decision for me.

_____________________________

bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

(in reply to donnaamarie)

Post #: 11

RE: What's a slave to do? - 9/28/2007 2:55:29 AM

bandit25

Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline

Spend 24 hours a day dealing with demands, etc? Not really. I do understand what you are saying and agree that a man who is best at attracting a woman may have his "pick" (and I am using that term very loosely); however, he is either monogomous or he isn't. Just because one can attract the opposite sex doesn't mean that one is going to act upon it. But, we all have our own beliefs and yours is as valid as mine.

(in reply to DMFParadox)

Post #: 12

RE: What's a slave to do? - 9/28/2007 2:56:36 AM

DMFParadox

Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline

Actually, I have to edit my previous post-- it's a bit easier, but it's not 'far more easily' for women to find above-average, or even above their value men; it does require work and a bit of a balancing act. It is easy for women to search out stable, healthy, financially secure men--if they know how to look. It's not easy, however, for them to seek out ATTRACTIVE men, where such a man is attractive due to social skills, talent, and partially on appearance; for the same reasons that it's not easy for men to do this with attractive women.

_____________________________

bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

(in reply to DMFParadox)

Post #: 13

RE: What's a slave to do? - 9/28/2007 3:04:43 AM

DMFParadox

Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline

quote:

But, we all have our own beliefs and yours is as valid as mine.

This is true; monogamy has its place and it's value. Living in a society where Jihad suicides are uncommon is one of the many benefits of keeping an average 1:1 ratio between available male and female populations. However, if the question is about attractiveness, then it is simply not true that monogamous people are as attractive to as many of their sexual counterparts. Having multiple partners increases your ability to exercise the skill of attraction at a geometric rate; in addition, existing girlfriends provide social proof that is as attractive, if not more so, to women than almost any other trait a man can display. The men that lose sight of this end up as 'friends' that the girl simply cannot explain why she's not attracted to him for.

Edit that: to men, a single woman that does not cheat is immensely attractive. To women, it's theoretically attractive, but in practice, I've seen them ignored time and again to go after the social king.

_____________________________

bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

(in reply to DMFParadox)

Post #: 14

RE: What's a slave to do? - 9/28/2007 3:09:19 AM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

greetings all,

dmfparadox, your post implies that there is some objective standard by which attraction can be measured, and unless i missed the memo, there isn't one (or else i'm misunderstanding your post).

personally, there are very few situations i can possibly think of in which i would get involved with a man who cheats. it's just not my cuppa...i think it's wrong, and i refuse to consent to any sort of condoning of it. it is one of the least attractive things i can think of. i also do not find men who have many girlfriends to be particularly attractive, although other factors can influence that so that i might be attracted to someone who happens to have many girlfriends. if he has quality in his relationships, perhaps it would be attractive...but quantity in and of itself and solely by itself is more often a turnoff than a turnon for me.

that said, i have to agree with the idea that it is perfectly normal and healthy for a man to choose to be monogamous (just as normal and healthy as it is for him to choose to be polyamorous). i personally don't see why men AND women in a relationship shouldn't be held up to the same standard and expectation of defining what the boundaries are with regards to being with other people (or establishing that there are not any) and keeping themselves to that standard.

in this case, it seems that either they did not discuss it at all (in which case they're both at fault for not clarifying what is and is not acceptable), or they did and the dominant overstepped (it indicates to me that he did because he has to lie to her about whether or not he is being with other people), in which case the submissive needs to figure out if she's okay with being with someone who does not respect her boundaries (if she has any).

edited to add...something else that i was thinking about regarding advice to the op's friend and the idea that as submissives, we should just "have to take it." the fact is, if we choose to have conditional relationships, and there is nothing wrong with that, we don't. it's unreasonable to expect any one person to do all the work of the relationship to begin with, but besides that, you do have the right to establish boundaries and expect those boundaries to be respected. personally, i choose not to establish boundaries, in part because i still get joy out of doing things i normally would not do because it pleases him. some submissives do not, or do to varying degrees but not to the point of not having boundaries at all. there is nothing wrong with that. so if the "taking it" is in the context of the relationship on the whole being unfulfilling...then no, i do not think the idea that just because we are submissive, we should have to accept anything and everything is applicable. just a thought.

respectfully,
annabelle.

< Message edited by hisannabelle -- 9/28/2007 3:18:46 AM >

_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to DMFParadox)

Post #: 15

RE: What's a slave to do? - 9/28/2007 3:13:14 AM

bandit25

Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline

If that's been your experience, then who am I to naysay it? However, mine has not been the same. I don't know that "existing girlfriends provide social proof that is as attractive, if not more so, to women than almost any other trait a man can display", but I would wonder about a man who never had any girlfriends. But, I would wonder about a woman who never had a boyfriend also.

And I have seen countless women pass on a social king once they find his past "record" so to speak, includes cheating. As my dear old mother used to tell me..."If he cheated on her, there's an excellent chance he's going to cheat on you." If that's not what you're looking for, who needs the heartache?

Find the one(s) you are compatible with.

(in reply to DMFParadox)

Post #: 16

RE: What's a slave to do? - 9/28/2007 4:07:08 AM

littlebitxxx

Posts: 732
Status: offline

Plain and simple - he lied.
Plain and simple - he's cheating.
Plain and simple - he's not worth her submission.

_____________________________

There is no such thing as can't unless it is followed by yet

It is the meaningless little acts that become meaningful in the doing.

The people that mind don't matter and the people that matter don't mind.

(in reply to onlyHisgirl)

Post #: 17

RE: What's a slave to do? - 9/28/2007 4:12:27 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

I think the post shows that monogamy or poly isn't the issue. The issue is that he is lying.
So whether the man has multiple partners or not, matters not until that issue is confronted and passed.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to DMFParadox)

Post #: 18

RE: What's a slave to do? - 9/28/2007 4:20:51 AM

DMFParadox

Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline

quote:

your post implies that there is some objective standard by which attraction can be measured, and unless i missed the memo, there isn't one (or else i'm misunderstanding your post).

Interesting point. There is an objective standard, but it's also relative--in the general theory of relativity kind of way. The objective measure of attractiveness is how many people you attract, or are attracted to you. The relative side of it is that it depends on the subject population, time frame, and the feedback loop generated by existing attraction, both positive and negative. Then there is the target characteristic of the person you're seeking to attract, and how what you're doing is different from what they would be attracted to.

In less specific circumstances, though, the points I laid out above are fairly valid. Especially when you're starting out and can't see the nuances very well.

_____________________________

bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 19

RE: What's a slave to do? - 9/28/2007 7:11:19 AM

onlyHisgirl

Posts: 101
Joined: 6/13/2007
Status: offline

Thanks for all the posts ya'll :-)
i'll message her to read them...she may not respond b/c she doesn't use the message boards. No, idea why...the boards are quite fun and informative ;-)
have a GREAT day, everyone :-)

_____________________________

When i am Owned: i am His girl only...only His girl

(in reply to DMFParadox)

Post #: 20

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