RE: my morning political rant

RE: my morning political rant (Full Version)

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SimplyMichael -> RE: my morning political rant (9/29/2007 1:30:54 PM)
it is so funny to hear the dipshit military theories of the many right wing idiots here. As a guerilla (which anyone with a fucking brain knew we would face) it is a primary goal to get your enemy (in this case, US soldiers) off of the streets and buttoned up into armored vehicles. I would bother telling you why but most liberals get it, most Republicans woudn't believe it and wouldn't know that fact because it is well understood fact in counter insurgency military circles, as in actually BEING in the military. The HUMMV wasn't designed as an armored vehicle, that is what the Bradley is for. There are tons of pictures of US Army vehicles CLEARLY sporting all sorts of scrap metal despite what some dreamer posted above. The Administration has never made it a priority to get proper military equipment to our troops in Iraq, probably because they don't own any of the firms making it. To me, in wartime, priority means, AT A FUCKING MINIMUM that you have shifts working 24 hours producing equipment, a SERIOUS PRIORITY means you order/pay another firm to stop making whatever the hell they are making and ALSO work 24 hours a day producing said equipment. IED, two problems. We have a fairly effective means of dealing with the remote detonation but Bush won't release them widely and the US press doesn't bother asking why (I guess because they are so busy being liberal and hating Bush to ask hard questions). There are devices that will shut down cell phone service (the primary tool in remote detonations) but the telecom firms don't want them widely issued because of fears they might make it back to the US and interupt their profitmaking. Secondly, the Army is just now deploying infantry vehicles that are mine/ied resistant. The fucking South Africans INVENTED the design, have them sitting around rusting, we could buy thousands of them for the price of ten or twenty of the ones the Army is buying but for some ungodly reason we don't. Anyone bet a Bush "founder" has that contract? NOTHING and I mean NOTHING that has gone "wrong" in Iraq was news to anyone involved. Just cause it is news to the idiots here, doesn't mean shit. Shinseki said we would need a few hundred thousand more troops to do Iraq right and Bush fired his ass (oh, I am sorry, after sending a CIVILIAN to correct the GENERAL assement, Shinseki was retired). Cheney gave speaches about how Iraq would be a morrass and fall into chaos if it was invaded and how any invasion would only serve to benefit Iran. Course he forgot all that but Republicans seem to be good at that shit, especially when others are dying for their profit. I could go on, but no matter how much incompetence Bush shows, no matter what he spends or how many lives are lost due to their incompetence, they will continue to support their idiocy.

DomKen -> RE: my morning political rant (9/30/2007 9:20:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: feastie A little tiny correction here ... not really germane to the whole thread at all, but just to provide a little information where a little is sorely lacking. The "scrap" metal being welded to military vehicles is not "scrap" metal. It is SA-516-70 Normalized steel plate. It's expensive and it's difficult to find any that is domestic because the military is getting most of it. SA-516-70 Normalized plate has a higher tensile strength than SA-516-70 As Rolled. If the military vehicles had been armored prior to leaving for Iraq, this is the material that would have been used. It is prime material and certainly not junk. Now as to why the vehicles weren't armored prior to leaving for Iraq, I have no clue. I don't think that those same vehicles were armored the last time we were in Iraq, so I believe that it is probably more the prior experience creating the expectation that it would not be needed, not some inattention to detail by the administration. People are so quick to make assumptions, to create conspiracy theories out of little bits of information. They like to arrange things in a way that justifies their personal feelings and even quicker to point fingers and scream "LIES" when the truth lies somewhere in between. So as far right or left as you might be on this topic, rest assured that you are woefully wrong in whatever your personal, cobbled-together theories might be. There is a bigger picture and none of us have it. Is SA-516-70 Normalized steel plate what crappy russian cars are made from? If not that isn't what was welded onto the trucks in my nephew's company. He told me quite clearly that the company was using an abandoned auto junk yard as the source of replacement sheet metal when the existing "armor" got heavily dinged up from bullets and shrapnel. His unit used trucks left behind by the previous company which presumably got them from the previous transpo company all the way back to the start of the occupation. Since effectively all the transpo companies are reserve or NG units and the trucks my nephew's NG unit has in the states are completely unarmored I think it is a safe bet to assume they first transpo company to go over had unarmored trucks and over time these units have improvised what protection they can.

subrob1967 -> RE: my morning political rant (9/30/2007 9:48:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx subrob: Body armor,armored transportation and radios were part of our TO way back in the sixties when I was in the military...it is not a new concept. O311 is about as basic as infantry gets. thompson A flack jacket and one guy per squad with a prc is a wee bit different than body armor and motorolas, dontcha think? How much armor did those Hueys carry again? In 90/91 NONE of our Hummers had armor, if you wanted armor you had to ride in a Brad.

feastie -> RE: my morning political rant (9/30/2007 12:48:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: feastie A little tiny correction here ... not really germane to the whole thread at all, but just to provide a little information where a little is sorely lacking. The "scrap" metal being welded to military vehicles is not "scrap" metal. It is SA-516-70 Normalized steel plate. It's expensive and it's difficult to find any that is domestic because the military is getting most of it. SA-516-70 Normalized plate has a higher tensile strength than SA-516-70 As Rolled. If the military vehicles had been armored prior to leaving for Iraq, this is the material that would have been used. It is prime material and certainly not junk. Now as to why the vehicles weren't armored prior to leaving for Iraq, I have no clue. I don't think that those same vehicles were armored the last time we were in Iraq, so I believe that it is probably more the prior experience creating the expectation that it would not be needed, not some inattention to detail by the administration. People are so quick to make assumptions, to create conspiracy theories out of little bits of information. They like to arrange things in a way that justifies their personal feelings and even quicker to point fingers and scream "LIES" when the truth lies somewhere in between. So as far right or left as you might be on this topic, rest assured that you are woefully wrong in whatever your personal, cobbled-together theories might be. There is a bigger picture and none of us have it. Is SA-516-70 Normalized steel plate what crappy russian cars are made from? If not that isn't what was welded onto the trucks in my nephew's company. He told me quite clearly that the company was using an abandoned auto junk yard as the source of replacement sheet metal when the existing "armor" got heavily dinged up from bullets and shrapnel. His unit used trucks left behind by the previous company which presumably got them from the previous transpo company all the way back to the start of the occupation. Since effectively all the transpo companies are reserve or NG units and the trucks my nephew's NG unit has in the states are completely unarmored I think it is a safe bet to assume they first transpo company to go over had unarmored trucks and over time these units have improvised what protection they can. I, up until July, was in the business of purchasing steel plate and other materials for the manufacture of pressure vessels for the petrochemical industry. Many of our customers requried the use of domestic material. If we could not find domestic material, we were limited to the alternate countries of manufacture we could purchase material from. SA-516-70 Normalized plate is commonly used for pressure vessels because of its high tensile strength. It is commonly used for processes which involve "sour service". It was in this constant pursuit for SA-516-70 Normalized material which had to be domestic or limited countries of origin that I discovered the extreme shortage of available material as was told of where it was being shipped. Believe what you will, but my information and my source are confirmed and irrefutable.

Owner59 -> RE: to the liberal cry babies (9/30/2007 1:26:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EPGAH Oh, thanks for that, I've been going under the clouded impression that the idea of war is to WIN, or at least to kill more of "them" than they kill of "us"...If the idea of war is to kill as many of YOUR OWN troops as possible, then...Well, that corresponds more with my ideas of LOSING... Sounds like a great concept for a videogame: A numerically inferior, technologically-superior force against a numerically superior--nay, INFINITE--horde of expendable drones... Wonder if such a videogame would be salable...Possible names for said videogame include: Command&Conquer, StarCraft, WarCraft, Real War, World In Conflict, and Total War: High Treason (The latter being EXCEPTIONALLY apt![;)])... You should stick to fantacy video games. The real world is complicated ,and not prone to simple solutions or simple approaches.

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