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ORIGINAL: came4U

I already went down that road with you and Thomspson on the subject of Pearl Harbour (many moons ago) lol.

no comment (this time!)

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ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Pearl Harbor was NOT a consipiracy, it was infighting in DC over who had control over intelligence.

Everyone thought it would be the Philipines and if the full Japanese plan had been carried out, we might have sued the Japanese for peace.  They canceled the last flight of bombers and didn't strike the fuel depot.

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ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

To say that FDR knew about the exact day and time of the attack on Pearl Harbor and did nothing
to protect Americans, there on Guam and in the Philippines and allowed them to die so we would then go to War is as idiotic a premise as saying GWB did the same thing on 9/11.  Of course, that will not stop the wackos from saying FDR is being framed and Bush really did it. 

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ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Thompson, that analysis is beneeth you.

Roosevelt wanted to get into the war to prevent the Japanese from seizing the entire Eastern Pacific for economic reasons and to help the Brits for moral reasons.
There is more than a little evidence that his goals were much broader than that.  To involve ourselves in the coming world conflict and emerge as the dominant economic power by allowing the other players to bleed themselves dry in the process.

Bush needed his pearl harbor for entirely different reasons and in that case I think they did know it was comming and did nothing.  I frankly thing he sat there dumbly because he knew he had rolled the dice and was taking a huge risk.
Bottom line it is all about the Benjamins.

Analysis of intelligence isn't easy  in the best of circumstances and the US in 1941 was not in the best of circumstances, there were serious turf wars going on in the intelligence services.
As has been the case since christ was a crossing guard.

To me, the way you look at these things is to look at who would have benefited, follow the money so to speak.
That is always the case.

Roosevelt wanted war but at what cost?  The Pacific Fleet and Pearl? Loose all that and not strike back? 
The BBs at Pearl were the oldest in the fleet and none mounted anything bigger than a 14" gun.  All but two were tactical in less than six months....so no real losses cept for a couple of thousand body bags.

I just can't buy it.  If we knew the time and place we could have sunk half the jap navy, imagine the stories of the brave submariners who crippled the ships and the aviators who sunk them.
Japs would still have "plausible deniability" and it would not necessarily bring Germany in which Roosevelt wanted. 

Hindsight is truly 20-20 and that is all it is.  Have you read "I was there" by Kimmels intelligence chief?  Good read and I think it gives a much more balanced view of things.  Of course he has an incentive to lay the blame elsewhere but it doesn't read that way.
I have only read excerpts from it.  They tend to substantiate my feelings on the subject.  Roosevelt was an astute player and would have certainly been aware of the infighting...Another good read is "The Roosevelt Myth"by John Flynn ISBN0930073274  It gives a broader picture of Roosevelt and his pupettering.

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx
There is more than a little evidence that his goals were much broader than that.  To involve ourselves in the coming world conflict and emerge as the dominant economic power by allowing the other players to bleed themselves dry in the process.