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The first step to being a good submissive? - 7/24/2005 6:38:58 PM

MsPurrmeow

Posts: 261
Joined: 10/30/2004
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{Yoinked from another thread with permission}

quote:

ORIGINAL: onceburned
A submissive must first gain control of himself before you can hand over control to someone else. A submissive needs to be comfortable with letting his domme meet his needs when she decides, not when he demands it. I wonder how much of the problems in finding a good sub is because guys don't take the first step of mastering themselves.

I am curious about hearing from both dominants and submissives on this quote above.

Do you believe that submissives should be in control of themselves before seeking a Master/Mistress? or do you believe that the burden belongs to the Top/DomM/M alone?

I'll share my own thoughts in a comment post.

Purr

< Message edited by MsPurrmeow -- 7/24/2005 6:57:55 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: The first step to being a good submissive... - 7/24/2005 6:48:13 PM

imtempting

Posts: 1280
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline

I have posted now tell me your ideas please? Ill add mine later as ive got business to take care off at the moment.

(in reply to MsPurrmeow)

Post #: 2

RE: The first step to being a good submissive... - 7/24/2005 7:18:37 PM

softandshy

Posts: 297
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline

i believe that a submissive must have control over him/herself in order to keep from plagueing the Dominant with issues that could be handled independently if S/He didn't want to direct them. i do also feel that a submissive must have control to surrender control. How would it be possible to give up power to someone else, when one is not aware of having power, or exercising power? What would one be offering then?

At the same time, there are some things i really rely on from the Mistress. These are very basic things that came with the relationship, that should in my opinion come with any good D/s relationship. One of those is communication. It is not solely Her burden, but i can only know about Her feelings, concerns and even preferences if She tells me directly (at this point i don't yet know Her well enough to read all the subtle signals of approval or disapproval). If She chose to abrogate that responsibility, i would be well and thoroughly lost.

Does that make sense? Is it along the lines of what you were asking MsPurrmeow? i'll be interested to see where this thread leads.

_____________________________

Happy "Swamp Thing"

(in reply to imtempting)

Post #: 3

RE: The first step to being a good submissive? - 7/24/2005 7:19:48 PM

MistressFire70

Posts: 378
Joined: 7/25/2004
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

We are each responsibly for our own mental health. No Dominant can do that for a submissive. We can offer an environment that is conducive to good mental health, but cannot force it.

Fire

_____________________________

you have come to a great chasm. Jump. It's not as wide as you think.

(in reply to MsPurrmeow)

Post #: 4

RE: The first step to being a good submissive? - 7/24/2005 9:35:57 PM

GentleLady

Posts: 356
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Do you believe that submissives should be in control of themselves before seeking a Master/Mistress? or do you believe that the burden belongs to the Top/DomM/M alone?

Each Dominant is going to have different needs and different answers to this question.

For Myself, I want the submissive to be in control of his own life as much as possible. He needs to be able to stand on his own feet and make decisions and choices. But this is only a personal preference because I am not into micro-managing.

And I agree with onceburned that it is difficult to see how a submissive can hand control over to Me if the submissive does not have any control to begin with. But that is only a personal opinion and does not make it right or wrong to be different.

Gentle Lady

_____________________________

All things are possible to those who have patience, try, and are willing to learn.

(in reply to MsPurrmeow)

Post #: 5

RE: The first step to being a good submissive? - 7/25/2005 5:17:02 AM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

Do you believe that submissives should be in control of themselves before seeking a Master/Mistress?

For me, yes. I will not work with me any other way.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to MsPurrmeow)

Post #: 6

RE: The first step to being a good submissive? - 7/25/2005 6:24:18 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

To submit, one must be able to submit to themself. One must be able to also control themselves and be aware of how their life evolves. One can need, without being needy. A submissive/slave should understand themself first, before they can expect or desire anyone else to.

Peace and Love

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to MsPurrmeow)

Post #: 7

RE: The first step to being a good submissive? - 7/25/2005 9:06:20 AM

ChainedAngel

Posts: 72
Joined: 5/12/2005
Status: offline

I absolutely agree with this statement. How can a sub give control until she knows exactly what she is giving control over?

(in reply to MsPurrmeow)

Post #: 8

RE: The first step to being a good submissive? - 7/25/2005 4:07:14 PM

GoddessDustyGold

Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsPurrmeow

{Yoinked from another thread with permission}

quote:

ORIGINAL: onceburned
A submissive must first gain control of himself before you can hand over control to someone else. A submissive needs to be comfortable with letting his domme meet his needs when she decides, not when he demands it. I wonder how much of the problems in finding a good sub is because guys don't take the first step of mastering themselves.

I am curious about hearing from both dominants and submissives on this quote above.

Do you believe that submissives should be in control of themselves before seeking a Master/Mistress? or do you believe that the burden belongs to the Top/DomM/M alone?

I'll share my own thoughts in a comment post.

Purr

Chris further defined this mastery of oneself as being comfortable with letting a Domme meet his needs in the time and manner She decides.
I believe there are a lot of boys who think they are ready for this, but they aren't. They think they know themselves and what they want and what will make them happy, but they don't. It is fine to be a kinky bottom and run the show when it is convenient, but that is not the way it works in every day life, especially if a boy is seeking 24/7 or a "Mistress".
I get a lot of boys who try to push their wants on to Me. And then they are upset because I do not have the same wants, the same needs or even the same tenets of what D/s is about. The most important thing, and I keep emphasizing this over and over, is to understand yourself, and then you can find the correct partner and make a good committment.
I am telling you what I want and what I need and what I seek. If you don't fit somewhat reasonably into those parameters, then it is never gong to work. If you think you do, then by all means, let's go exploring together. It is important to be on the same page regarding My style of D/s and your style of D/s. I hate it when *D/s* is thrown around so much as a catch all phrase, when, to Me, it is a pretty specific area of the lifestyle that refers to a pretty specific dynamic. If you want the whole package, then you need to understand the whole package and how that impacts your lifestyle preferences. Then go out and find the Lady who agrees with you.
Don't try to force Me into your style of D/s and then whine about it when I disagree and turn your offer of service away. I kind of hate the bring this up, but this is exactly why some universal standard of definition as a basis can be important. If we have a common starting point, I think many of us would waste less time get a lot farther.

< Message edited by GoddessDustyGold -- 7/25/2005 4:09:19 PM >

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom

(in reply to MsPurrmeow)

Post #: 9

RE: The first step to being a good submissive? - 7/25/2005 4:26:36 PM

AAkasha

Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

Chris further defined this mastery of oneself as being comfortable with letting a Domme meet his needs in the time and manner She decides.
I believe there are a lot of boys who think they are ready for this, but they aren't. They think they know themselves and what they want and what will make them happy, but they don't. It is fine to be a kinky bottom and run the show when it is convenient, but that is not the way it works in every day life, especially if a boy is seeking 24/7 or a "Mistress".
I get a lot of boys who try to push their wants on to Me. And then they are upset because I do not have the same wants, the same needs or even the same tenets of what D/s is about. The most important thing, and I keep emphasizing this over and over, is to understand yourself, and then you can find the correct partner and make a good committment.
I am telling you what I want and what I need and what I seek. If you don't fit somewhat reasonably into those parameters, then it is never gong to work. If you think you do, then by all means, let's go exploring together. It is important to be on the same page regarding My style of D/s and your style of D/s. I hate it when *D/s* is thrown around so much as a catch all phrase, when, to Me, it is a pretty specific area of the lifestyle that refers to a pretty specific dynamic. If you want the whole package, then you need to understand the whole package and how that impacts your lifestyle preferences. Then go out and find the Lady who agrees with you.
Don't try to force Me into your style of D/s and then whine about it when I disagree and turn your offer of service away. I kind of hate the bring this up, but this is exactly why some universal standard of definition as a basis can be important. If we have a common starting point, I think many of us would waste less time get a lot farther.

Great post. There are two factors though that also affect a submissive's ability to know himself or master himself:

1. Inexperience
2. Desperation

An inexperienced submissive has a fantasy ideal in his head of what his submission looks and feels like. While it's easy to say "Oh yes, I would be into that!" when thinking of any number of acts, in his fantasy, it's super-charged with his own erotic ideals and things play out in his mind the way he would want them to. He may think he can get into a wide variety of things but when faced with them in real life he backs out or once he starts, he realizes it's not at all as hot as he had imagined, and his mind reverts back to his own fantasies.

A desperate sub is one who has wanted a femdom partner for a long, long time and he's willing to compromise his own expectations and honesty just to get his foot in the door. Often, a sub will say anything he thinks a femdom wants to hear, just to get to the domination point. Sadly, this is often completely on purpose! Other times, he just gets so wrapped up in the possibility of actually entering a femdom situation that he'll do anything to make it happen. Subs have lied about everything to me -- from personal preferences, views on supremacy, hobbies, etc. to "mold" himself into someone he think I'd pursue.

Early in communications online I'd often find that a submissive would rarely offer an idea contrary to one I presented. All I would need to do is phrase the question a certain way and he'd agree to anything. If I said, "Are you the type of sub that enjoys strict control, sort of ongoing and all the time, being really under a femdom's thumb and have to rely on her for permission on a wide variety of tasks?" he'd say "Oh yes, that's hot!" -- and then when I told him that was not my style at all, and that micromanaging wasn't for me, he'd backpaddle.

Akasha

_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)

Post #: 10

RE: The first step to being a good submissive? - 7/25/2005 4:35:11 PM

GoddessDustyGold

Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

1. Inexperience
2. Desperation

Exactly, Aakasha! Thank you for further defining what I was saying. I think We have all had these exact experiences, more often than not.

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom

(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 11

RE: The first step to being a good submissive? - 7/25/2005 4:53:42 PM

brightspot

Posts: 3052
Status: offline

~I don't think that any sub or master have control... at least not complete control over themselves, no one gets the award of "Perfect Human Being". I think it important for both Dom/me and sub to be in basiclly "stable" mental health and want to continue on a path of growth.

~I think, yes I agree a sub needs to have or find comfort in Her Domme's way of meeting their needs. Although I also believe there should be open communication and negotiation.

~I think there are many different issues that cause people not to connect and/or want to get to know each other to any more depth.

Hey Chris....Any futher comment from You???

*Brightspot

Edited...I am a pretty good speller but a really clumsy typist!

< Message edited by brightspot -- 7/25/2005 5:00:49 PM >

_____________________________

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But..."May at Least One person have a sense of Humor!" ~KML.

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(in reply to MsPurrmeow)

Post #: 12

RE: The first step to being a good submissive? - 7/25/2005 5:31:35 PM

SadisticPrincess

Posts: 87
Joined: 7/4/2005
Status: offline

Naturally we are all on a path of growth and discovery, and I don't think anyone expects to find perfection from anyone.

I do think it's essential for the submissive AND the dominant to know what it is that they want, and what it is that they DON'T want. Certainly, this takes time and experience to figure out, but there are many resources available to aid the search.

If a person is not experienced, I think it's vital that they come out and say that. Wanting heavy play is a great fantasy, but the reality of it is another universe. Serving in chastity sounds hot----until that first 5 am hardon! There is no *fault* in being honest about lack of experience.

Those that are more in touch with themselves should be HONEST. (and this speaks to the "desperate" sub, I think.) If you are a person who just wants kinky sex, then just come out and say so. Don't waste time by saying that you want to SERVE. I am reasonably certain that there are plenty of women out there who like kinky sex, and will hook up. If you want to be a toilet slave, list that prominently in your profile, and let that interest be known up front. If playing with body waste is a hard limit for that domme, why waste each other's time?

(in reply to brightspot)

Post #: 13

RE: The first step to being a good submissive? - 7/25/2005 7:54:33 PM

onceburned

Posts: 2117
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Iowa
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: brightspot
]Hey Chris....Any futher comment from You???

erm... for starters, you don't need to capitalize the 'y' when referring to me.

And for the rest... I think there have been some good comments in this thread. As several have pointed out, what works for a couple is an individual thing. There is no one true way.

Okay, now that I got that disclaimer out of the way, I will share my opinion.

Akasha mentions that inexperience and/or desperation can affect a sub's self-mastery/balance. Inexperience leads to unrealistic expectations and desperation leads to a disregard for consequences.

I think prior experiences can also interfere with a sub's self-mastery. Vanilla experiences of male privilege make it more difficult/shaming to release control. I am not saying it is shameful thing, but that he may feel ashamed... 'what would his buddies think'? I am guessing that the cognitive dissonace of holding a privileged status and giving up that privilege is something most guys have to struggle with. And some will have a harder time of it because they exercised the rights that men get in our society more often.

(in reply to brightspot)

Post #: 14

RE: The first step to being a good submissive? - 7/25/2005 8:28:07 PM

LdyAuburn

Posts: 179
Joined: 5/9/2004
Status: offline

I dont think everyone always has their life totally in order. For example my current should have his cable tv often disconnected, basically because he would forget to pay it. That isnt an issue for me as I pay all the bills (we now reside together) So perhaps the 'things' people dont have in control, check and see what the relevance is.

(in reply to MsPurrmeow)

Post #: 15

RE: The first step to being a good submissive? - 7/25/2005 9:19:51 PM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

Since we're discussing malesubs having control over themselves, I have a related question:

How do you Ladies filter out the so-called malesubs who are attracted to D/s primarily to absolve unresolved guilt, feelings of inadequacies, etc.?

After all, it's very likely that most of the guys in this category don't even realize the true dynamics behind their attraction to D/s themselves.

Also, on the other side of this coin, how can a malesub effectively filter out the Ladies who are attracted to D/s as a means to absolve unresolved issues of anger? Chances are, the Ladies in this category aren't any more aware of the true dynamics behind their attraction to D/s than their malesub counterparts are.

subfever

(in reply to MsPurrmeow)

Post #: 16

RE: The first step to being a good submissive? - 7/25/2005 10:41:25 PM

littlespike

Posts: 80
Joined: 5/21/2005
From: Austin
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsPurrmeow

{Yoinked from another thread with permission}

quote:

ORIGINAL: onceburned
A submissive must first gain control of himself before you can hand over control to someone else. A submissive needs to be comfortable with letting his domme meet his needs when she decides, not when he demands it. I wonder how much of the problems in finding a good sub is because guys don't take the first step of mastering themselves.

I am curious about hearing from both dominants and submissives on this quote above.

Do you believe that submissives should be in control of themselves before seeking a Master/Mistress? or do you believe that the burden belongs to the Top/DomM/M alone?

I'll share my own thoughts in a comment post.

Purr

I think that if a subie is going to hand control, of their life, over to someone else (i.e. the Mistress) then there would be no need for the subie to be total control of their life. But i agree with the other posts that the subie should be responsible in their life before belonging to a Mistress.

Control is one thing that i love about the BDSM M/s relationship. i have never had known anyone who controlled me before. But for my Mistress it is a snap.

For me, i was in total control of my life. i had just retired from the military and made a lot of changes to my life. Everything from moving from the old country (Aci Trezza, Sicily) to Hollywood to having a ex pro-Domme for a roommate. She is really cool, it is nice to have someone to show my SM marks to......lol...

Respectfully
little spike

_____________________________

http://www.goddessselene.com/ -- My Mistress and best friend

http://www.homepage.bannerzzz.com/ - My homepage

(in reply to MsPurrmeow)

Post #: 17

RE: The first step to being a good submissive? - 7/26/2005 1:20:12 AM

GoddessDustyGold

Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

Since we're discussing malesubs having control over themselves, I have a related question:

How do you Ladies filter out the so-called malesubs who are attracted to D/s primarily to absolve unresolved guilt, feelings of inadequacies, etc.?

After all, it's very likely that most of the guys in this category don't even realize the true dynamics behind their attraction to D/s themselves.

Also, on the other side of this coin, how can a malesub effectively filter out the Ladies who are attracted to D/s as a means to absolve unresolved issues of anger? Chances are, the Ladies in this category aren't any more aware of the true dynamics behind their attraction to D/s than their malesub counterparts are.

subfever

Good point! I ask a lot of questions to try to get at the root of what is driving them to this alternative lifestyle. This is where some unresolved baggage can come into a picture, and if I don't feel equipped to handle it, the relationship won't work for Me. I am sure I don't always ask the right questions, but I try to take the time if a boy seems to be sincere in his quest. And sometimes he will realize that he is not ready and has things he needs to resolve before he can make such a commitment.
You are right. There are many who don't even know why they are attracted to this in the first place. And there are many of those many who are really only seeking the S/M aspects for punishment and really don't want a full D/s or M/s relationship at all. It takes a lot of weeding.
As to the Dominas who are driven for reasons other than a comfort level with their natural Dominance, and a need to express that Dominance (properly, of course) within a D/s or M/s relationship, I say the submissive has an equal responsibility to ask questions. Learn as much as possible about anyone with whom one is considering a relationship.
It always comes back to lots of communication and understanding one's self, and what one is seeking.

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom

(in reply to subfever)

Post #: 18

RE: The first step to being a good submissive? - 7/29/2005 7:31:43 PM

MsPurrmeow

Posts: 261
Joined: 10/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Do you believe that submissives should be in control of themselves before seeking a Master/Mistress? or do you believe that the burden belongs to the Top/DomM/M alone?

I'd like to thank everyone for your replies to the questions. For the most part, I believe that it is obvious that the majority of people here are on a similar wavelength as I.

"Self-control" is a part of knowing yourself and being able to maintain a level of awareness as well as being able to follow through with personal choices. I am a believer that mental health is important if a relationship of any kind is to last. It is far too easy to seek out a relationship that disguises a persons shortcomings, in order to simply prove that they can still "survive." Healthy relationships aren't about survival, they should instead flourish and nurture the people involved. In order to do so, I believe they should be entered by strong, self-aware individuals who can make strong choices and follow through. The other side of the coin, of course, is people who simply "fall" or follow. They want to do what they are told so that they never have to look inside and deal with their own demons.

We all use the word "control" in one context or another, but do we know what we really mean by that? Yes, I want to have control of another person, but they still have to consciously choose to enter that relationship, and they should still remain in control of their cognitive functions in order to make valid choices on how to follow through with what I will for them. A slave of mine needs to be in control of themselves in order to choose to follow my will.

"Self-control" in a Dominant is also valuable. This is the strength that keeps one from losing themself to anger or other emotions and causing harm. Self-control allows us to follow through when we make decisions on behalf of our charges for their benefit, not our own. It keeps us strong when we see the path become difficult, but know that the reward is the greater achievement.

D/s is about control, and I believe that, in my relationships at least, both people must be at a point in their self-examination and growth to have achieved some degree of it.
Now, being able to perceive the difference between self-control and sheer stubbornness better be addressed in a different thread. That one is a lot harder to discern.

(in reply to MsPurrmeow)

Post #: 19

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