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Termyn8or -> WinXP (10/1/2007 4:00:46 PM)

I haven't brought it up all that much on this board, but recently I installed XP. I was one of the last 98SE holdouts in the world, but then I know of people still using DOS. I liked SE, and had it tamed. But the OS was getting rickety, it was getting more prone to errors, require more reboots, the usual. I tried Linux, but it is just too far away from what I want it to do.

Well, when I take a step like that I do it with a big foot. I installed Windows XP Professional corporate edition, which is still not cheap. I know why, it has some serious features once you find them.

I am having one problem with functionality that I can't seem to resolve. I have other questions, but this is the main one. I used to go to the bondage.com chatrooms. I know sometimes they suck, but other times they do not. So initially I got there and got in. Found a couple of rooms with some cool people and went with it.

Well I got sick of the banner at the top, so I disected the page. I found that the chat window was named chat_bottom and I think the extesion may have been js. Of course SE didn't know what to do with it but when I renamed it to an HTM it ran just fine, with no banner.

Not only does the file give an error, so does the website, I mean like through a link and then you click, whatever. No matter how I get there, it has the error.

"To whatever you must download and install the following components, Java Virtual Machine". So I OK it and get an error right away. If I say no the page shows up and says "You can get this on IRC" blah blah blah, and it is a link, but when I click it I get "Page cannot be displayed".

I am not a complete babe in the woods, I figure I probably need a newer version of Java VM. But maybe not. I think it is possible that my OS is preventing it from installing, maybe because of what version of the OS it is. I mean this is expensive, so figuring what it is supposed to do, the OS itself might be stopping it. The error message is immediate.

Windows update went fine after the install, the only thing "wrong" is that I had to use unsigned audio card drivers. Everything else went fine, connection to the internet was no problem, and even installing AOL so I can get to my FTP went well. That's something I could no longer do on SE. Something happened, but that OS had been cloned and transplanted so many times it is not funny. It had seen some abuse. To the last day I got errors in the hardware reporting. It somehow got into BIOS and think it has a floppy and a few other things that are no longer there. But XP fixed all that.

Now I fully intend to get another soundcard with XP friendly drivers, this one is a POS. I think I have one around here with a Yamaha chipset that I had trouble with in SE. I'll see if I can find it.

Other than that, it goes through a Dlink router to the dsl modem. I have not setup any type of firewall or anything, However that does not mean that certain defaults are not set somewhere along the line.

Any ideas on how I should proceed to correct this ? I am a bit new to XP, but I am alot newer to networking. What I do know tells me that there is a good chance that the problem is on my end. If the error was due to something online, it seems it would retry a few times before giving me an error message. Make sense ?

Any ideas appreciated.

T




EPGAH -> RE: WinXP (10/1/2007 6:34:33 PM)

Unsigned drivers are QUITE common, it just means the sound-card manufacturer didn't "feel" like paying a couple grand to Microsoft to get it certified...
I WOULD recommend you getting a newer computer, because a computer that came with 98 CAN run XP, but won't run it WELL...
That said, did you do a complete reformat/install, or did you just try to install it over 98?




HaveRopeWillBind -> RE: WinXP (10/1/2007 6:50:41 PM)

Did your version of XP upgrade you to IE v 7.0? If so it will not run Java Scripting. You will need to uninstall IE and then install v 6.0. The same is true for those running Vista except that Vista won't run IE 6.0 so the only solution is to run a virtual version of XP or chuck Vista entirely and revert to XP.




OrionTheWolf -> RE: WinXP (10/1/2007 7:33:46 PM)

Odd, java scripting runs just fine on mine and I have IE 7. Then again I changed my settings in the Java control panel and always get the java updates.

To the OP, many XP deployments did not have java virtual machine installed on it, since it is a Sun product. Try going here http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp
and download the Java Virtual Machine. The instructions for setting it up are pretty easy and it does work with IE 7, just look at the instructions here http://java.com/en/download/help/6000010300.xml .

If you still have problems, go to internet properties and slect to delete temp files.

Hope this helps,
Orion




Termyn8or -> RE: WinXP (10/3/2007 6:53:06 AM)

Thanks folks. Once I wemt to sun to get the Java it worked.

I agree on the new(er) PC, this one is quite old. It's only a 433Mhz, but it is at least a P3 class Celeron. Eventually I will get something and this drive will be a slave. It is not a good idea to run it like this. I got about ten gigs left of an 80 gig drive, and XP is installed at the end of all that. I changed the install directory because I had alot of stuff saved in desktop. I was going to clone it to a bigger drive, but now that will not be necessary, because XP won't migrate. I might clone it and then reinstall, but then I might just start with another drive.

XP seems to run fine on this old beast, even though I think the filters are going bad on this mobo. I can hear it in the speakers when I move the mouse or if there is heavy harddrive activity. I suspect this was what caused some of the problems in 98SE, XP seems to handle it better.

It is not anywhere near as slow as I thought it would be, in fact it doesn't seem to have slowed down at all. It almost seems like it boots faster, but I haven't actually timed it.

Now that this issue is behind us, I really miss the "Show Desktop" function. It used to be the first icon on the left in the toolbar. Many people never use it, delete it or whatever, but I use(d) it.

Picture this, you are in Collarchat, you decide to reply to a message, it opens a new window. You may also be in another window at a link in a post to which you are replying. Then you want to Google something for spelling or who knows what.

Show desktop would minimize all windows and you hit IE again. When you're done with that you can close it or not, but another click of the show destop icon will restore all of the previous windows in one fell swoop, layered the same way.

I swear I have seen it on XP before, but for the life on me I can't get it. I am not stupid, I can put anything that is an EXE there or in the sendto menu, and have, but this is more like a windows function. One day I'll probably find it buried in modem settings or some shit. Sometimes I just don't understand why they put certain things where they put them.

Well, at least figuring this out will not be as hard as Linux. When I get a new(er) PC this will probably become a Linux box. I know it'll run it. I am interested in learning it, but I am not ready to be stuck in it.

Of course being a troublemaker I now want to find out how to manually edit the registry. I did it in 98, And now, since this is a fresh install and I now know how to customize it to my liking, I can reinstall at any time in case shit happens. This is not a high priuority right now though. There is really nothing to change at the moment.

The only thing I disagree with is deleting temporary internet files. It will not do it, all it does is makes them inaccessible to you. They can be recovered until they are overwritten.

Ahhh, good ol 98, I remember people bringing me unbootable PCs and I would throw their drive in mine as a slave and tell them "Well the last time this thing was on the net was ......" and if the swapfile is still there "You pulled the plug huh ?". I wonder if I'll ever learn that shit about XP.

I was dragged into XP kicking and screaming so to speak, just like I was dragged into 3.11, 95 and 98. I remember installing AOL 1.5 on a 386 that didn't even have Windows. It had it's own GUI and mouse drivers, and it was all on a floppy disk !

My how things have changed. I was talking with one of my bosses yesterday about how we came from tubes to this, where I get paid to push buttons. This because more and more I have to do complex setups using of all things, a remote control. Kind of a guy thing.

Also yesterday a buddy of mine who I let piggyback my internet account said they were going to get a landline again and asked if I could come over and set it up. There is no setup I told him, it has all been done. Plug it in and it will work. He said "We won't have the same phone number" to which I replied "No but they do". Ahhhhh, an enlightenment. Since his area code did not change, do nothing, just click.

On a more philosophical note, I wonder what the next ten years will bring. I saw the Linux MCE demo someone posted in here, it was awesome. And I have ferretted out some technologies that exist now that they do not want known, but are not quite secret, just not widely publicized. My Father was involved in manufacturing for a long time and even though he knows little electronics he gets newsletters from companies pioneering in technological fields. He tells me that they can now make a transistor with one molecule, and they have a new liquid storage medium.

Just how are these innovations going to be used ? Seriously, by the time most people see technology it is ten years old. It has to go through a process of "elimination", that is elimination of cost. Otherwise a new TV would be a thousand dollars. When they have unlimited dollars like with military technology, they can do things that simply are not going to appear in the public domain for a long time.

So when you consider the question, consider this. Unless you work in R&D for a cutting edge technology firm, consider that we are about ten years ahead of what they make known, except in newsletters to members etc., or in limited publications.

And what are PCs going to be like ? A friend said he wanted a PC he could just tell what to do, well they had that ten years ago. I probably have the program somewhere. This voice recognition program was a pain, you had to train it, each user had to train it. It took hours for you to read screen upon screen of text into the microphone, but in the end you could actually set it up to execute Windows commands. If you trained it all the way (I never did, but it would run and the errors were hilarious at times) you could run a PC, and only touch the power button once. You could do your email, including responding, write something, defrag or whatever without touching the keyboard or the mouse, and then shut down the computer. Now that I think of it, this is over ten years old.

OK, I doubt you could do much in the way of graphics, but that may be simply asking too much.

And look at the setup they did for Stephen Hawkings, how long has he had that now ? 25 years ? More ? I mean the Man types with his eyeballs, and has been doing it for a long time.

I mean right now a blind person can use a PC. The voice recognition software has been around for quite some time, they could wear headphones and have someone read the training text to them and just speak it for analysis, then even easier is a reading program, one of which I know has been around for awhile, it sounds like Steven Hawkings actually.

Now they are talking neural interfaces for people with prostheses replacing severed limbs, how long until they are actually inside the brain with this, or are they already ? Are the people with the tinfoil hats actually right about this one ? Lifelog has already been introduced, but I am not sure if it has yet been implemented. Tracking implants are a foregone conclusion and IIRC are required for any dangerous animal kept as a pet in certain areas. There is talk of implanting sexual offenders. Then they are trackable night and day via GPS. Might cut down the recidivism (sp) at least the third time around.

And now, if you try, you can get a satellite photo of your own back yard, or anyone else's for that matter. Anyone feeling claustropobic ?

Really, with XP I wonder just how much microhard or whoever is slipping in and out my backdoor. Technology seems to be geared to survielance anymore, and some of us do not think it is a good thing.

T

PS, If you are down here you have read it, I guess I hijacked myself. Have at it.

T




Aneirin -> RE: WinXP (10/3/2007 7:02:03 AM)

Hehe, I am still using win98se on a celeron comp somewhere near pentium 2 and to be honest,since MS stopped supporting win 98,I have had so many problems.Time for a new comp now,mine's about eight years old and pretty battered.My only problem is,I want WIN XP not vista and it is getting tough to find them,I don't like the idea that the new boy will not run any older versions of photoshop and I have not the funds to buy CS3.




Saraheli -> RE: WinXP (10/3/2007 7:31:58 AM)

quote:

Windows XP Professional corporate edition, which is still not cheap

You paid for a free bootleg version.
quote:

you must download and install the following components, Java Virtual Machine

Pretty straightforward, you need to install the JVM from Sun Microsystems (98 had a built-in one which XP does not...thanks to the courts)
quote:

Now I fully intend to get another soundcard with XP friendly drivers,
Just get the drivers online, don't worry about signed or unsigned drivers, EPGAH is 100% correct regarding unsigned drivers




Lucylastic -> RE: WinXP (10/3/2007 7:33:54 AM)

I seem to remember seeing that some companies are offering a downgrade disk to XP with machines loaded with Vista, worth checking ou t with your supplier :)
I love my XP and have since it came out but hubby only installed it last week after being 98 SE proud.
Mind you , I am not gonna touch vista till they no longer support XP.. I am really slightly peeved that I HAVE to upgrade my puter to use it, I expect to be able to use a computer for at least a few years.....  before splashing out money for an operating system
Lucy




OrionTheWolf -> RE: WinXP (10/3/2007 7:44:25 AM)

Right click on an empty space on the taskbar and you can select "Show Desktop".

Orion




Termyn8or -> RE: WinXP (10/3/2007 8:29:15 AM)

Wow, geekiness abound.

Orion, I had never noticed that. Incidentally I have the taskbar on autohide and always on top. There are many advantages to doing this.

Lucy, I'm with you (yours ?) I would still have 98 if it would get on the internet.

Sara, the XP is mine, the soundcard drivers are not right, and the soundcard is crap. That will be changed. It is like the pre-levels are too high, it distorts the peaks sometimes. I'll just try to find that Yamaha soundcard I have somewhere.....Perhaps you missed it but I did go to sun and get the Java, it now works.

Ane...., I still have the Windows update files on CD, want them ? It is the browser update which is most of all the updates they had, and Mediaplayer 9. I can burn it anytime, but I think it is a bit big for email.

Thanks all, I am pretty much up to full functionality now. :-)

T




OrionTheWolf -> RE: WinXP (10/3/2007 9:09:31 AM)

Actually, Win95B through WinME, which includes Win98, had a memory management issue. I actually call it a defect, but Microsoft did not want to call it a defect for fear of lawsuits. What this means is, when it is processing virtual memory and or RAM, the operating system would get confused and do something it was not supposed to do. This would cause those general protection fault errors and the like. When it did this, it was also very likely that a windows system file would get damaged. You could actually look at the size of say, user32.dll, and the size would be a little less than the initial installation size. This would mean the file is becoming corrupt and losing parts of it. If some of those system files became extremely damaged, you would get the "Blue Screen of Death". Reinstalling 98 would fix this for a short while, and you would see speed return after the reinstall. There were alot of other problems with it, but this one was major.

I still have a win98 machine around here somewhere, and while I liked using it, I did not like the stability issues. WinXP is great for correcting these problems, plug and play, as well as better for gaming and graphics, if you have the right equipment.

Stay away from Vista as long as possible. Major compatability issues there, with older drivers and older software.

Orion


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Wow, geekiness abound.

Orion, I had never noticed that. Incidentally I have the taskbar on autohide and always on top. There are many advantages to doing this.

Lucy, I'm with you (yours ?) I would still have 98 if it would get on the internet.

Sara, the XP is mine, the soundcard drivers are not right, and the soundcard is crap. That will be changed. It is like the pre-levels are too high, it distorts the peaks sometimes. I'll just try to find that Yamaha soundcard I have somewhere.....Perhaps you missed it but I did go to sun and get the Java, it now works.

Ane...., I still have the Windows update files on CD, want them ? It is the browser update which is most of all the updates they had, and Mediaplayer 9. I can burn it anytime, but I think it is a bit big for email.

Thanks all, I am pretty much up to full functionality now. :-)

T




farglebargle -> RE: WinXP (10/3/2007 9:21:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I seem to remember seeing that some companies are offering a downgrade disk to XP with machines loaded with Vista, worth checking ou t with your supplier :)
I love my XP and have since it came out but hubby only installed it last week after being 98 SE proud.
Mind you , I am not gonna touch vista till they no longer support XP.. I am really slightly peeved that I HAVE to upgrade my puter to use it, I expect to be able to use a computer for at least a few years..... before splashing out money for an operating system
Lucy


Splashing out money for an operating system?

Now, I can understand paying someone to hold your hand and support you. Paying a deskside tech, etc.

But paying an O/S tax? I dunno. Unless it's some sort of crap which doesn't document all it's API calls, any application which runs on that O/S should work on any API compatible O/S.





OrionTheWolf -> RE: WinXP (10/3/2007 9:39:32 AM)

But this is not Apple standards we are talking about, these are the crappy MicroSoft standards.

Orion


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I seem to remember seeing that some companies are offering a downgrade disk to XP with machines loaded with Vista, worth checking ou t with your supplier :)
I love my XP and have since it came out but hubby only installed it last week after being 98 SE proud.
Mind you , I am not gonna touch vista till they no longer support XP.. I am really slightly peeved that I HAVE to upgrade my puter to use it, I expect to be able to use a computer for at least a few years..... before splashing out money for an operating system
Lucy


Splashing out money for an operating system?

Now, I can understand paying someone to hold your hand and support you. Paying a deskside tech, etc.

But paying an O/S tax? I dunno. Unless it's some sort of crap which doesn't document all it's API calls, any application which runs on that O/S should work on any API compatible O/S.






farglebargle -> RE: WinXP (10/3/2007 9:57:27 AM)

I've always considered Apple more of a hardware vendor with good engineering than an O/S vendor, myself...

You don't buy leopard, you buy "A Mac" ( Or $APPLE_PRODUCT_OF_YOUR_CHOICE ).




OrionTheWolf -> RE: WinXP (10/3/2007 11:06:12 AM)

Yeah but their strict standards for software developement has produced very high quality software. I hardly ever hear of errors on MAC's and rebooting is almost unheard of. Kind of like the old Novell Netware, some of those servers ran for 4+ years before a power outage or some such caused them to reboot.

Orion




FullCircle -> RE: WinXP (10/3/2007 1:33:51 PM)

You can get cheap versions of Windows XP from Malaysia and it even comes with free spyware.[;)]




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