RE: "Partners on behavioural Meds..."

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Mercnbeth -> RE: "Partners on behavioural Meds..." (10/3/2007 9:54:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: breatheasone You know...this shit is BEYOND ridiculous....I can't BELIEVE I'm saying this but I hope mod11 locks this and EVERY thread a certain person KEEPS ruining for others by the SENSELESS needling and "I know it all listen to me." bull shit...and I think we all know WHO i am speaking about. Frankly I am sick of this persons negative impact on every thread they seem to visit. breathing as one, I would disagree. Where ignorance and inexperience is concerned; to be 'enlightened' requires more exposure, more light. Its only dangerous when hidden and the weak and naive have no alternative position to consider. "Withdrawing" and/or censorship are characteristics of the weak and cowardly. Those traits are best exposed through open debate.

Bobkgin -> RE: "Partners on behavioural Meds..." (10/3/2007 9:57:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cautiousiasub Bob, is your chronic depression the same depression that you were talking about earlier that relates to the sad shape of the world today? From my understanding, that isn't a chronic depression, it's situational...being depressed because of how you see the world. Someone who suffers chronic depression may say "I'm depressed when I have nothing to be depressed about." It doesn't relate to any situation. I mean "chronic" as "always present". quote: As far as your distrust of "psychiatry" I believe you are confusing psychiatry with psychotherapy. Look up the definitions and you may have a better understanding. Psychiatry is a branch of medicine that deals with chemical imbalances, etc. Psychotherapy is a little more subjective. There is still a lot of trial and error in the medical field. We don't know all there is to know about the human body and it's functions. Look back to 100 years ago and the advances in the medical field. Can you imagine the advances 100 years from now? Actually, I just provided Wikipedia's definition. And I know the DSM-III went into disturbances with no known organic cause (I'd be surprised if the latest version has done away with all of them). I am not saying that Psychiatry is worthless, only that it has some draw-backs which should be considered when seeking help. I agree, the next 100 years (assuming civilization lasts that long) could produce some remarkable results in research. But I also keep in mind that some of the issues psychiatry/psychotherapy wrestle with have engaged the brightest minds of philosophy for millenia.

Prinsexx -> RE: "Partners on behavioural Meds..." (10/3/2007 9:59:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bobkgin I have and do suffer from chronic depression. I've had it for decades, and long ago learned to deal with it without meds. What you are willing to bet on is immaterial to the discussion. I have asked questions and made statements about my experience, my doubts, and my thoughts on this issue. I am not telling anyone to avoid seeking helping. But neither am I telling them to walk in with eyes closed and to treat everything a shrink says as gospel. I've yet to hear anyone say this is bad advice. Well said. This is why many therapists work 9here at least) outside of the stranglehold of registraion.....as they use alternative methods in situations where they would be expected to medicate. I am of the RD Lainge generation don't forget......and love, love is all you need still rings in my ears...... my question is this.....in the face of effective medication why is therapy necessary/?.... answer? because people are lonely and isolated and desperate for other reasons than their so-called 'comdition'.... jeeeeeez I'll talk myself out of a job one day.......

breatheasone -> RE: "Partners on behavioural Meds..." (10/3/2007 10:00:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: ORIGINAL: breatheasone You know...this shit is BEYOND ridiculous....I can't BELIEVE I'm saying this but I hope mod11 locks this and EVERY thread a certain person KEEPS ruining for others by the SENSELESS needling and "I know it all listen to me." bull shit...and I think we all know WHO i am speaking about. Frankly I am sick of this persons negative impact on every thread they seem to visit. breathing as one, I would disagree. Where ignorance and inexperience is concerned; to be 'enlightened' requires more exposure, more light. Its only dangerous when hidden and the weak and naive have no alternative position to consider. "Withdrawing" and/or censorship are characteristics of the weak and cowardly. Those traits are best exposed through open debate. sigh ok.... you are indeed correct but, do I have to LIKE it! [;)]

Bobkgin -> RE: "Partners on behavioural Meds..." (10/3/2007 10:03:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xoxi But all in all an excellent observation. 1083 posts and not a single "you're right, I've changed my mind" in any of them. I am touched that you've read every one of my posts, Xoxi. [;)]

Bobkgin -> RE: "Partners on behavioural Meds..." (10/3/2007 10:06:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx quote: ORIGINAL: Bobkgin I have and do suffer from chronic depression. I've had it for decades, and long ago learned to deal with it without meds. What you are willing to bet on is immaterial to the discussion. I have asked questions and made statements about my experience, my doubts, and my thoughts on this issue. I am not telling anyone to avoid seeking helping. But neither am I telling them to walk in with eyes closed and to treat everything a shrink says as gospel. I've yet to hear anyone say this is bad advice. Well said. This is why many therapists work 9here at least) outside of the stranglehold of registraion.....as they use alternative methods in situations where they would be expected to medicate. I am of the RD Lainge generation don't forget......and love, love is all you need still rings in my ears...... my question is this.....in the face of effective medication why is therapy necessary/?.... answer? because people are lonely and isolated and desperate for other reasons than their so-called 'comdition'.... jeeeeeez I'll talk myself out of a job one day....... Would that be the RD Laing who wrote "Knots"? I read it in my early 20s and it opened up new dimensions for understanding people.

xoxi -> RE: "Partners on behavioural Meds..." (10/3/2007 10:06:44 AM)
Consider it to be an educated assumption arrived at by extrapolating the data from a sample percentage to the whole. If you happen to have a post in which you did admit an error, consider it the exception that proves the rule. Even more so since if you remember that one instance out of 1000+ posts it must have been a seriously rare occurrence [;)]

WinsomeDefiance -> RE: "Partners on behavioural Meds..." (10/3/2007 10:06:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: ORIGINAL: breatheasone You know...this shit is BEYOND ridiculous....I can't BELIEVE I'm saying this but I hope mod11 locks this and EVERY thread a certain person KEEPS ruining for others by the SENSELESS needling and "I know it all listen to me." bull shit...and I think we all know WHO i am speaking about. Frankly I am sick of this persons negative impact on every thread they seem to visit. breathing as one, I would disagree. Where ignorance and inexperience is concerned; to be 'enlightened' requires more exposure, more light. Its only dangerous when hidden and the weak and naive have no alternative position to consider. "Withdrawing" and/or censorship are characteristics of the weak and cowardly. Those traits are best exposed through open debate. Mercnbeth I tend to agree with most you've said here, and understand the point you are making. For example: A month ago, I had one opinion of a person, after watching numerous circular debates where those who disagreed were baited, ridiculed and demeaned - my opinion changed drastically. Exposure definitely brought about a degree of enlightenment. However, withdrawing from a total waste of time is not something I'd call cowardly. Its just common sense. If someone is deliberately or subconsciously obtuse and quarrelsome - why feed their need for attention?

Prinsexx -> RE: "Partners on behavioural Meds..." (10/3/2007 10:07:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bobkgin I think its important to keep in mind that not everyone can handle the knowledge that their partner has a mental illness. There is still a stigma regarding this. Could any of us easily accept a diagnosis/ accept a label? They'll come a time when even getting a dog license will require that we disclose our own medical histories. The DSM IV TR makes very very very interesting reading. It seems to be the so-called personality Dosorders that are proliferating. Didn't most of us here suffer from so-called paraphelias just a short while ago? and PS Bob...if you set fire to my dinner I would get amnesia too.........

Bobkgin -> RE: "Partners on behavioural Meds..." (10/3/2007 10:12:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx and PS Bob...if you set fire to my dinner I would get amnesia too......... roflmao I -did- learn never to start cooking a meal and -then- have sex while waiting. [;)]

chellekitty -> RE: "Partners on behavioural Meds..." (10/3/2007 10:13:55 AM)
yes, ideally, i would not have been born to my mother's family who has a huge history of bipolar people, and ideally it would not have been activated by a lifetime of abuse, sexual, emotional, physical and psychological, and ideally..wait...ideally, i guess i would not be me.... realistically, i'm going to be a functioning person taking those tablets every morning and every night....

Celeste43 -> RE: "Partners on behavioural Meds..." (10/3/2007 10:15:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx my question is this.....in the face of effective medication why is therapy necessary/?.... answer? because people are lonely and isolated and desperate for other reasons than their so-called 'comdition'.... Incorrect. Therapy is needed because long term illness causes other difficulties. If you are 40 and have an episode of depression for which you immediately seek help and receive the right medication immediately, you probably don't need more than 8 to 16 weeks short term therapy to pinpoint the situational causes and effectively focus on other avenues to pursue. However long term depression, or that which starts in the underage group and is not immediately diagnosed causes: permanent changes in the brain as can be seen on MRIs, inability to learn social cues, and as a result of the inability to learn social cues you have long term loneliness. So treating the problem with medication lifts the problem so you can then learn everything you didn't learn when other minors were learning it. Such as how to be a friend, how to make friends, how much to share and when, what is appropriate in different social occasions, how to present yourself effectively at a job interview, and how to learn the skills needed to do a job such as showing up properly attired, being time attentive, not discussing inappropriate items with coworkers (and thus getting fired for sexual harassment), not using company resources for self etc. All of these things are normally learned during the underage years but a minor suffering with mental illness must learn things later in life because they aren't capable of learning them at the appropriate time. And they learn them faster in therapy, both solo and group.

Prinsexx -> RE: "Partners on behavioural Meds..." (10/3/2007 10:16:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bobkgin Would that be the RD Laing who wrote "Knots"? I read it in my early 20s and it opened up new dimensions for understanding people. Yes and also: Laing, R.D. (1960) The Divided Self: An Existential Study in Sanity and Madness. Harmondsworth: Penguin. Laing, R.D. (1964) Sanity, Madness and the Family. London: Penguin Books. Laing, R.D. and Cooper, D.G. (1964) Reason and Violence: A Decade of Sartre's Philosophy. (2nd ed.) London: Tavistock Publications Ltd. Laing, R.D., Phillipson, H. and Lee, A.R. (1966) Interpersonal Perception: A Theory and a Method of Research. London: Tavistock. Laing, R.D. (1967) The Politics of Experience and the Bird of Paradise. Harmondsworth: Penguin. Laing, R.D. (1969) Self and Others. (2nd ed.) London: Penguin Books. Laing, R.D. (1970) Knots. London: Penguin. Laing, R.D. (1971) The Politics of the Family and Other Essays. London: Tavistock Publications. Laing, R.D. (1976) Do You Love Me? An Entertainment in Conversation and Verse New York: Pantheon Books. Laing, R.D. (1976) Sonnets. London: Michael Joseph all of them revolutionary to me and life changing.....daughter as I am of a mentally ill and alcoholic mother...........read lainge's life story written by his son and i learnt it was ok to be an insane therapist...... It's society's desperate need for sameness that drives the impetus gehind much of the financing of psycho tropic drugs and not the so called insanity itself....that and the fact i believe that fear makes critics of us all.....

Prinsexx -> RE: "Partners on behavioural Meds..." (10/3/2007 10:19:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Celeste43 quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx my question is this.....in the face of effective medication why is therapy necessary/?.... answer? because people are lonely and isolated and desperate for other reasons than their so-called 'comdition'.... Incorrect. And you are welcome to a fixed opinion. I have said this once and i'll say it again...I am not here as a therapist just as a pansexual switch......but there are reasons why i feel qualified to have certain opions about what therpay is and isn't (for me)

breatheasone -> RE: "Partners on behavioural Meds..." (10/3/2007 10:20:01 AM)
quote: However, withdrawing from a total waste of time is not something I'd call cowardly. Its just common sense. If someone is deliberately or subconsciously obtuse and quarrelsome - why feed their need for attention? Yep...this is what I guess I was trying to convey...Thankyou WinsomeDefiance.

Bobkgin -> RE: "Partners on behavioural Meds..." (10/3/2007 10:21:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx quote: ORIGINAL: Bobkgin Would that be the RD Laing who wrote "Knots"? I read it in my early 20s and it opened up new dimensions for understanding people. Yes and also: Laing, R.D. (1960) The Divided Self: An Existential Study in Sanity and Madness. Harmondsworth: Penguin. Laing, R.D. (1964) Sanity, Madness and the Family. London: Penguin Books. Laing, R.D. and Cooper, D.G. (1964) Reason and Violence: A Decade of Sartre's Philosophy. (2nd ed.) London: Tavistock Publications Ltd. Laing, R.D., Phillipson, H. and Lee, A.R. (1966) Interpersonal Perception: A Theory and a Method of Research. London: Tavistock. Laing, R.D. (1967) The Politics of Experience and the Bird of Paradise. Harmondsworth: Penguin. Laing, R.D. (1969) Self and Others. (2nd ed.) London: Penguin Books. Laing, R.D. (1970) Knots. London: Penguin. Laing, R.D. (1971) The Politics of the Family and Other Essays. London: Tavistock Publications. Laing, R.D. (1976) Do You Love Me? An Entertainment in Conversation and Verse New York: Pantheon Books. Laing, R.D. (1976) Sonnets. London: Michael Joseph all of them revolutionary to me and life changing.....daughter as I am of a mentally ill and alcoholic mother...........read lainge's life story written by his son and i learnt it was ok to be an insane therapist...... It's society's desperate need for sameness that drives the impetus gehind much of the financing of psycho tropic drugs and not the so called insanity itself....that and the fact i believe that fear makes critics of us all..... Yes. With increasing population the need to domesticate humanity has increased dramatically. That's why we see so little individuality and so much evidence of herd mentality.

chellekitty -> RE: "Partners on behavioural Meds..." (10/3/2007 10:22:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Celeste43 quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx my question is this.....in the face of effective medication why is therapy necessary/?.... answer? because people are lonely and isolated and desperate for other reasons than their so-called 'comdition'.... Incorrect. Therapy is needed because long term illness causes other difficulties. you're both right and you're both wrong...there is no black and white answer that applies across the board for each and every person...there are people out there that know they are not alone that have no coping skills and there are people out there with excellent coping skills yet think they are the only ones and there are people in between who still need therapy.... problem solved?

Prinsexx -> RE: "Partners on behavioural Meds..." (10/3/2007 10:23:44 AM)
Humanist, client-centred, person-centred, pansexual, switch...also writer and therapist and suffer from SAD....medicated for various diagnoses....and........don't want to argue......

velvetears -> RE: "Partners on behavioural Meds..." (10/3/2007 10:26:47 AM)
Depression very often goes under the radar - if it doesn't cause that much distress, if you can still function it might go undiagnosed for years. Men especially are reluctant to go for treatment for ANYTHING medical lol. Where psychiatry has made real strides imo is in treating disorders like schizophrenia, bi polar, anxiety disorder - the disorders which can't but help inefering with functioning day in and day out. Meds make a big difference in these people's lives. Sad thing about depression is that if it's not that severe you can live with it an entire lifetime. Like Bob is doing. Just to make things clear i am not saying psychiatry is the be all end all of mental illness. i think there are many approaches to a person improving their lives. You can be diabetic and never have to go on medication, if you make lifestyle changes and loose weight, eat properly etc. i do believe depression can be helped with alternative means, but for some medication is what literally saved their lives. This wasn't available years ago - people rotted away in mental institutions if they had any kind of mental illness. Thank god for the discovery of psycotropic medication that have freed these people of miserable existences and given families some hope for loved ones suffering these very debilitating disorders.

Prinsexx -> RE: "Partners on behavioural Meds..." (10/3/2007 10:34:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bobkgin I -did- learn never to start cooking a meal and -then- have sex while waiting. [;)] I did that once and left a pyrex dish on the hob....I've heard of having a bang but it was just ridiculous.......purely explosive.....and god knows that was just the sex........

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