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RE: Security and trust in absolute/TPE relationships - 10/10/2005 7:07:40 PM

Belladonna82

Posts: 171
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline

i soooo love this topic....

in all actuality if you wish to get legal on this topic....if the slave resides in the home of her Master for more then 7 yrs....its a commen law marriage in this state atleast.But off the legal aspects

The Master i currently serve....puts all the money into a account...which yes is in "my" name.i make sure bills are paid and all other things the home or children need is taken care of.Surprise...Master trusts me enough to not run with His money.The money i recieve goes in...the money Master recieves goes in.....this all happened......even before we were wed.Master is away on work related trips so often it made things easier.i must just be lucky...lol Master knows me well enough to know i am with Him until my death...sooooo why worry about who's name is on the account or who controls everything...i ask before i take money out and Master has records of all transactions....but normaly He never even looks at them.Trust is KEY!

Forever in servitude,
bella
*Proud kajira of SirSix72*

_____________________________

Blessed be!

(in reply to daddysprop247)

Post #: 21

RE: Security and trust in absolute/TPE relationships - 10/10/2005 7:56:36 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

This is indeed a good discussion to consider and debate about. I will not be so bold to say that “Most” people do marry and enjoy this protection that marriage provides as emerald states… simply because I don’t Know Most people. However, it is not uncommon that people have not made much issue or concern to financial issues due to the fact that Marriage Laws and Common-Law relationship Laws provide the protection needed. It is also not uncommon that people avoid discussion of issues like what do we do if the relationship fails for a variety of reasons. People tend to avoid those types of discussions that are likely to cause them stress or anxieties and are even less likely to plan for the possibility. It seems all too often that people become most concerned about them when it is staring them in the face. Even things that are a going to happen are avoided.. IE DEATH… what is the plan when you die… I have mine… did it almost 15 years ago.. I have a plan that is in place as well has having much already prepaid.. and lets not forget about a Will! How many of us take these steps and are they enough steps… well we can only guess… but it is highly recommend to go thru.

I will agree with the OP on the surface that it would appear that a D/s relationship that marriage is apart of the situation there is greater enhanced protection for the TPE relationship in the event of a melt down. However, in many places marriage is not necessary to provide this protection. Common Law Relationship does exist in many legal jurisdictions and depending on the specific laws in place there is equal protection as there can be in Marriage situations. I would recommend that one investigate the rights and requirements that is within your jurisdiction. But, there are other situations that even Common Law will not be helpful and this is most obvious in Poly situations, particularly when the Master/Dominant is married to another.

Now for what I would do! I am in a situation that requires due consideration in protecting the long-term interests of my girl kyra.

I see absolutely no reason to have my slave’s bank accounts in my name, when I consider the risks associated to the benefits gained. My slave kyra will always keep her accounts in her name as well as all money’s she earns will be put in these accounts. The money I require from her will be given to me when and if I wish them. I can control the financial money’s of my slave very easily with simple instructions. I can see the bank statements – issue budgets etc. Oh I am sure that some Masters wish to micro-manage theirs slaves and having the slave feel completely vulnerable to them… and enhance the actual Demonstrated TPE. However, what is the risk… never mind the relationship melt down possibility. What happens if I die suddenly… how would my slave survive day to day. How could she get the money legally and how long would it take? If a Master wishes them in his name… then he better have a Will that dictates this money back to the slave, or else Estate Laws will more than likely not give that money to the slave… but to the relatives of the Master… Wife… children etc… check your laws out. Besides that… even if a “wife” wishes to give you the money… well – then you will likely have to prove it is your money in the first place to IRS/ Revenue Canada or whatever your Tax guy is. It wouldn’t be a lot of fun to be taxed on money that is yours in the first place. This only touches on the risk and this doesn’t even the relationship Meltdown.

The master is suppose to do his best to protect the slave… well… in my opinion… a Master that seeks to put all the money’s in his/her name is only exposing the slave to an absolute… don’t know to many Masters that are immortal do you?

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to themischievous1)

Post #: 22

RE: Security and trust in absolute/TPE relationships - 10/10/2005 8:41:43 PM

Wolfie648

Posts: 600
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline

If you don't trust someone enough to give yourself to don't.

Do we all make mistakes. Yes.

Do we all survive if we made a mistake. The vast majority.

Preferably we don't make mistakes.

The world isn't perfect, people aren't perfect, and perfect protection does not exist contract (marriage or lifestyle) or no. Insurance policies do not exist for this type of situation.

Perhaps you should consider yourself not ready for TPE if you have these concerns (this is, none of it, is meant to be an insult - it seems you have a concern and you should listen to yourself - always trust yourself).

D (owner of j)

(in reply to daddysprop247)

Post #: 23

RE: Security and trust in absolute/TPE relationships - 10/10/2005 8:45:21 PM

Wolfie648

Posts: 600
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Perhaps you should consider yourself not ready for TPE if you have these concerns (this is, none of it, is meant to be an insult - it seems you have a concern and you should listen to yourself - always trust yourself).

Addendum: always trust yourself unless you are already in a TPE situation in which case you should trust your owner first and yourself second (assuming you are not the owner).

D (owner of j)

(in reply to Wolfie648)

Post #: 24

RE: Security and trust in absolute/TPE relationships - 10/10/2005 9:06:28 PM

petwolf22

Posts: 343
Joined: 9/5/2005
Status: offline

how does a person become willed to another?

(in reply to daddysprop247)

Post #: 25

RE: Security and trust in absolute/TPE relationships - 10/10/2005 9:12:50 PM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Belladonna82

i soooo love this topic....

in all actuality if you wish to get legal on this topic....if the slave resides in the home of her Master for more then 7 yrs....its a commen law marriage in this state atleast.But off the legal aspects

The Master i currently serve....puts all the money into a account...which yes is in "my" name.i make sure bills are paid and all other things the home or children need is taken care of.Surprise...Master trusts me enough to not run with His money.The money i recieve goes in...the money Master recieves goes in.....this all happened......even before we were wed.Master is away on work related trips so often it made things easier.i must just be lucky...lol Master knows me well enough to know i am with Him until my death...sooooo why worry about who's name is on the account or who controls everything...i ask before i take money out and Master has records of all transactions....but normaly He never even looks at them.Trust is KEY!

Forever in servitude,
bella
*Proud kajira of SirSix72*

it really is not an issue of trust, or lack of, at least not in this relationship. my Master knows i love, need, and fear him too much to ever consider leaving him, much less with his money in my pockets. it's more an issue of, why give me that kind of power? cash at my disposal, even if it's only used when and for what he permits. He pays the bills, and to be honest i have very little knowledge of the financial goings-on in this house. couldn't tell you how much the mortgage or gas bill is for instance. He considers those things to be none of my business. some Masters wish to be served by having their slave take care of such things...my Master is different. He doesn't want me to understand insurance, and mortgages, and driving, and most of the things that people tend to think of as necessary knowledge for independent living. He wishes me to be as helpless and utterly dependent on him as possible...that is what he needs in a slave/mate. others are different and that's fine.

(in reply to Belladonna82)

Post #: 26

RE: Security and trust in absolute/TPE relationships - 10/10/2005 9:16:01 PM

stp

Posts: 6
Joined: 9/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

It occurred to me that in this kind of relationship it would be easier to trust the person one is legally married to versus simply living together with or merely seeing long distance. In other words, the slave who is legally married to her owner will find it far easier to be a slave because law inherent in a marriage contract itself would provide some security and protection for the slave and all children involved to a degree, making it easier to trust and essentially live this particular lifestyle.

I am not hear to offend anyone, so... in my humble opinion:

I do not see any relevance of a marriage certificate. I have been married (granted I was in a vanilla relationship), and there is always an out whether it be vanilla or otherwise, the law will back you. You can always get a divorce, or even a legal separation will do the trick and you will be entitled to half of what you acquired together. For that matter, the law will entitle you to half if you are living in common law for over 6 months (in Canada as best ass I understand). If you are looking for a back-up plan, then maybe a TPE relationship is not for you. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

I came into my TPE relationship with wolfie648 with 2 children of my own from a previous marriage, so I do understand as I have a great deal to lose. I would never have given myself to Daddy if I did not believe in Him 100%. I also know that if He were ever to release me, He would make sure that my children, as well as myself were taken care of. If you don't have this faith I do not recommend you take the leap. This is not a relationship to go into lightly, and nor is it for everyone. Many friends were afraid for me (even friends already in the lifestyle), as they did not understand the dynamic, or trust my faith. This wasn't something I discussed with my friends, as I needed to have the faith for myself. Truthfully, I really don't care what anyone thinks of my relationship, if they have a problem with it, it is just that - their problem.

For me, a TPE relationship means giving up all rights. As Daddy made it clear to me before He would collar me, "take the UN charter of rights, and that is exactly what you will no longer have". How do you possibly give up your rights, and still expect to have a back-up plan?

just my humble opinion,
stp

(in reply to themischievous1)

Post #: 27

RE: Security and trust in absolute/TPE relationships - 10/11/2005 12:24:41 AM

MissDiandSirHugh

Posts: 1158
Joined: 8/11/2005
From: Goondiwindi ( Qld )
Status: offline

One very interesting Topic indeed as it now concerns us in our lifestyle and in another persons also,in that we were approaced by this person and asked it\f we would be happy to have him live with us full time as our personal property to serve us and our needs in all ways to which we said yes with out any hesitation as we knew him well then he asked about his income which is rather substantial also his personal possessions which gave us much to think on and talk between our seleves.
A contract is to be drawn up and signed by all of us then sealed and given to a very good friend who is also a solicitor and only opened in the event of tragedy or on release of said person and us all approach the solicitor and ask for it to be opened.
What we finally decicded on wich also gained mutual agreement with the other party was he was to keep his personal things which were his alone and hold memories of many things dear to him,which we felt should not be destroyed or part of our past and future together.
His income would be put into a seperate bank account with no way of it being touched by anyone for a set term unless the contract is opened and the solicitor reqests it to be closed which is his for the future,another account opened and an amount from his wages eac week be transvered to that account for his liveing expenses as well as a set amount for himself as he is in a position of haveing to mix with the comunity at times away from his chosen way of life and able to do so with out any finger pointing or queries.
Although this is just our way of dealing with one person and their position that would not mean we would copy it with another but we would still have a contract no matter what it was to contain or dictate.

(in reply to stp)

Post #: 28

RE: Security and trust in absolute/TPE relationships - 10/11/2005 3:15:35 AM

domtimothy46176

Posts: 670
Joined: 12/25/2004
From: Dayton, Ohio area
Status: offline

I can only speak from my own thoughts on this. I would imagine it would require a slave who was willing to passed, as chattel, from one owner to another and an owner who was prepared to accept her as chattel. Beyond those two conditions it seems as simple as letting one's wishes be known.
Timothy

(in reply to petwolf22)

Post #: 29

RE: Security and trust in absolute/TPE relationships - 10/11/2005 3:32:49 AM

LordODiscipline

Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

My girl and I lived in a "partial"(?) TPE relational dynamic (because of legalities for work we could not combine our incomes, so control in that area was through allowance [fiscal and realized] in the area of monies) for 6+ or so years.

In the interim, we had about a dozen lifestyle friends experience deaths in their relationships.

After watching the outcome of those tragedies and seeing familys swoop in to take away [all] property in two of those instances, the state take a hunk in one of those instances, and several people who were placed onto the street due to on-going disputes (and, three of these with pre-arranged legal documents declaring that the surviving partner would get "X") I told her we were getting married.

I (personally) abhor a lot of the dictums that decare what "responsibilities a dominant has" to his submissive as pendantic and completely "unreal" and non-applicable... and, I would not place such an edict in front of this group.. but, it is a significant eye opener to see such things happen (and, with the regularity that we observed) and that left the parner with absolutely no legal recourse or resources.

After working with these other people to help get their lives back in line, I simply could not tolerate the throught of my girl becoming another statistic in the event of my death.

~J

(in reply to domtimothy46176)

Post #: 30

RE: Security and trust in absolute/TPE relationships - 10/11/2005 6:48:14 AM

lonewolf05

Posts: 830
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Handing all rights, property, finances, and decision making power to an owner a slave isn't legally married to seems like it could involve great risk.

=========

i suppose it is a bit risky....i own maybe a few odd tshirts...some underwear n socks...maybe 4 or 5 pairs of jeans..what little i do own fits in my van with room left over.
i do not own..any luxuries..no vcr no cd player...no tv...nothing...not even my own computer..."I" was taught and trained a proper sub/slave lives in poverty and owns nothing....good or bad but it is how "I" was taught.

my Ms IS married to Her hubby...and i am not he.
he is vanilla.
i am just Her boy...nothing else.
no sex..no romance..no s/m.

so maybe YOU feel "I" am being TOO risky...but it is as i was taught.

take care
woofie

(in reply to themischievous1)

Post #: 31

RE: Security and trust in absolute/TPE relationships - 10/11/2005 7:17:32 AM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stp

How do you possibly give up your rights, and still expect to have a back-up plan?

just my humble opinion,
stp

good question.

(in reply to stp)

Post #: 32

RE: Security and trust in absolute/TPE relationships - 10/11/2005 9:30:20 AM

wipmebeetme100

Posts: 198
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

I handed over all life issues to Man when we first met. If I trusted him enough to surrender then I trusted him enough to handle all the big life issues as well.

I understand the concern one should have regarding their future should something occur that terminates the current relationship. I don't think marriage is the answer. That is almost like saying, "OK...just in case you screw me over (cause obviously i can't trust you not to) if we are married i know my interests will be protected (because i can't trust you to protect them)." Looks like there is something lacking here....TRUST. Yet this same person we do not trust to look out for our best interests....we are trusting with our life when we allow them to engage in certain activities....using our bodies???
Gem said it perfectly in the above quoted statement.

Peace,
cathy

(in reply to Gem)

Post #: 33

RE: Security and trust in absolute/TPE relationships - 10/11/2005 11:27:55 AM

Wolfie648

Posts: 600
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

After watching the outcome of those tragedies and seeing familys swoop in to take away [all] property in two of those instances, the state take a hunk in one of those instances, and several people who were placed onto the street due to on-going disputes (and, three of these with pre-arranged legal documents declaring that the surviving partner would get "X") I told her we were getting married.

Interesting (if tragic) point. Personally I don't believe in the church or the state - but if I have to be a poser to them in order to ensure my slave's financial security should the worst happen...something to think on for myself.

D (owner of j)

(in reply to lonewolf05)

Post #: 34

RE: Security and trust in absolute/TPE relationships - 10/11/2005 12:24:50 PM

ownedjulia

Posts: 218
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: beachdominant

To my point of view it is imperative that a BDSM contract is made before you acutally enter into a TPE. Handing over all the rights (

quote:

rights to income earned, property owned, ability to make even the smallest decision, etc.
) has to be a mentionned in a spefic chapter in the contract between the Master/Mistress and his or her slave. The same has to be put in the contract about the children born before or during the TPE relationship. In the "step out" clause has to be specified what will happen to all this when the TPE relationship is ended.
This point of view is persona but also locally inspired. Getting married in Belgium gives a lot of security to both partners. Getting divorced in Belgium is a very long, complicated and expensive process. I believe when a TPE ends, all bonds have to be put to an end at once. This is not posible when you are in a divorce, certainly not in my country.
I fully understand that this isn't the most perfect sollution but it is my sincere belief that after all a Master/Mistress has to protect his or her slave at all times and to treat him or her with respect, also when the relation comes to an end. Living by the true nature of our lifestyle is therefore very important.

This is what i did with my Master. Although the contract is not legally binding it helps to define just what is being handed over, in my case i handed over basically everything to him except for decisions over my career. This was spelled out in the contract and so provided a good way to work out any little differences before i became his slave.

_____________________________

~julia
owned slave and proud of it!

(in reply to beachdominant)

Post #: 35

RE: Security and trust in absolute/TPE relationships - 10/11/2005 2:59:12 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

This is all very interesting, but I'm a little mystified. The title of the thread is "Security and trust in absolute/TPE relationships." The discussion has been all about "Managing finances in absolute/TPE relationships." Those aren't the same thing.

(in reply to ownedjulia)

Post #: 36

RE: Security and trust in absolute/TPE relationships - 10/11/2005 3:30:20 PM

JustaTop

Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline

Hope for the best,prepare for the worst-nothing in life is guaranteed,but that it stops.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 37

RE: Security and trust in absolute/TPE relationships - 10/11/2005 3:31:32 PM

fyreredsub

Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline

I don't care how much this girl wishes to be dominated,controlled,polished and true potential reached by being submissive doesn't mean being stupid as there are children involved and they will never be left unprovided for b/c of my lifestyle choice.
this girl would hope her Master has his own money but then again she seeks 24/7 TPE without living in the same home(at least right now while training).
this girl would expect that Master would help her to control her spending and to be accountable for those actions and to help her make sound investment choices.

< Message edited by fyreredsub -- 10/11/2005 3:36:51 PM >

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to themischievous1)

Post #: 38

RE: Security and trust in absolute/TPE relationships - 10/11/2005 3:34:43 PM

luvdragonx

Posts: 388
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

This is all very interesting, but I'm a little mystified. The title of the thread is "Security and trust in absolute/TPE relationships." The discussion has been all about "Managing finances in absolute/TPE relationships." Those aren't the same thing.

I think Security=Financial Security in this discussion.

_____________________________

Never Without Love

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 39

RE: Security and trust in absolute/TPE relationships - 10/11/2005 5:13:01 PM

LadiesBladewing

Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: anthrosub

I'm glad to see this topic being discussed as I've thought about it myself many times. I know of two profiles here where the Domme is genuinely looking to own a slave. But as the OP asks, there's no mention at all of what provisions would be made or how future security will be established. In my view, if I'm going to involve myself to that level, I would be very concerned about what will come down the road. I've also spoken with a few Dommes over the past couple years where it was obvious once we started talking on the phone that this was not being thought about at all.

anthrosub

As one of the dominant individuals who takes more than a little time caring for the concerns of our property, including their health, and their financial well-being, I can tell you that we don't give specifics about whether or how we're going to take fiscal responsibility for our property in our profile for a -very- good reason. Aside from the fact that plans are individualized according to the individual servant, I don't think that many people would post their financial profile for anyone to read, and we don't and won't post our financial plans on our profile. Financial matters are discussed with the individual servant, at the point at which he or she becomes a bound servant, and the complete responsibility of the House. It is my opinion that any dominant individual who would post his or her financial plan for property in hir profile needs to understand the nature of the internet better or is missing common sense and a sense of self-preservation.

We don't even take on submissives who can't fully support themselves at the start of the relationship, because no servant is accepted into the house without a lot of time and patience to see whether the fit is really -right-. TPE (we use other terms, but I will use this one for continuity), for us, includes the right to tell our servant to continue to work outside the home, at our discretion. This gives all of us plenty of time to grow together and learn about each other, AND it allows the servant to retain the knowledge that he or she can truly -choose- whether or not a life with us is the right one for hir. So the servant must be able to hold down a job outside of the House and be able to support hirself until such time as the decision is made to take a servant to the level of bonded servant. At that point, all matters of finance, medical care, life insurance, and management of life issues are dealt with, since at that point, the individual becomes fully a core member of the House.

Oh--and marriage isn't an option for us in ANY state in the United States. Even if they could get past the same-sex issues, no State recognizes (or will recognize any time in the near future) multi-partner (aka polyamorous) relationships. Because of this, we've had to find other legal methods for dealing with protecting the members of our household. Because of this, I think we may have had to put -more- thought into this than many married couples do, and I'm pretty sure that we've covered areas that most married people leave up to their insurance agent or the company who handles their employer's group life policy.

Lady Zephyr

< Message edited by LadiesBladewing -- 10/11/2005 5:19:45 PM >

(in reply to anthrosub)

Post #: 40

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