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old habits and respect due - 10/2/2007 3:26:34 PM

jthaddeus

Posts: 30
Joined: 6/11/2007
Status: offline

Hello Everyone,

My father made a point of training me from a young age to refer to people as Sir and Ma'am. These habits I kept with me, and were later reenforced in the Army.

Now I'm in a situation where those titles mean something more, and are hence not to be conferred on everyone, (especially other submissives)

I believe my question is twofold.

1.) any advice for breaking this habbit and suggestions for an alternative honorific to use?

and

2.) How does one go about explaining a faux paus like this in case of mistake without the above rather lengthy discourse?

Thank you very much for your help and understanding.

Respectfully.

-- James

Post #: 1

RE: old habits and respect due - 10/2/2007 3:32:08 PM

Archer

Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

I still use the default of Sir and Ma'am unless and until they do something to lose my respect.
You get X amount to start with and can add or reduce your stock in my mind through your actions.
It's a matter of perspective. Do you want to believe everyone is worthy of respect from the start or do you believe that nobody gets any respect until it is earned?
Half full half empty?

The trouble I have seeing your perspective in this post is I would rather faux paus 4,000 times with more respect than they feel is nessisary than once with less than they are due.

(in reply to jthaddeus)

Post #: 2

RE: old habits and respect due - 10/2/2007 4:02:56 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

There's no need to break it if you use it universally. Kinky people generally understand that we take on a pre existing code and adapt it to wiitwd.

The problem comes when you try to start using it discriminatingly against orientation or gender.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 3

RE: old habits and respect due - 10/2/2007 4:11:10 PM

EclipseAbove

Posts: 220
Joined: 8/11/2005
Status: offline

I have the same habits and I think they are good habits to have. I wouldn't suggest trying to break them. Keep in mind that you are really talking about two different things that happen to share the same word. There is the term of respect sir and the title Sir. Its like two, to and too. Context is everything. I use the terms of respect all the time even with kinky people who are submissive and I've never had to explain anything to anyone. I've gotten a few looks, but flashing a quick "can I help you?" expression seemed to make them go about their business. Personally, I think the world would be a better place if more people were polite to each other. Just my $0.02.

(in reply to jthaddeus)

Post #: 4

RE: old habits and respect due - 10/2/2007 5:19:01 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

I was raised the same way and I don't see any point in breaking the habit. I don't call everyone ma'am or sir all the time, just when it seems polite and natural for me to do so. Mostly when dealing with strangers, teachers, etc. Kinda like the formal and informal tense in Spanish.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to jthaddeus)

Post #: 5

RE: old habits and respect due - 10/2/2007 5:51:40 PM

SilverWulf

Posts: 196
Joined: 4/7/2005
Status: offline

I was raised the same way.

I still use sir and ma'am in every day life without even thinking about it.

Walking through the store "excuse me sir/ma'am"
while checking out "thank you ma'am"
at a restaurant "thank you sir/ma'am"... "more coffee please?.. thank you ma'am"

Just after getting together with My girl, she gave me a few strange looks but quickly got used to it.

To me, it is just simple every day common courtesy. Treating others with respect garners respect in return and very often results in improved service while at a store or restaurant.

If you want to know the true measure of a person, watch how they treat the waitress/waiter.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 6

RE: old habits and respect due - 10/2/2007 7:47:26 PM

sundownhawk

Posts: 151
Joined: 8/17/2007
Status: offline

I would not worry too much over breaking the habit of refering to someone as Sir. It is a polite term I often use myself. If someone is offended they can politely let you know. If I should call a submissive Sir, I take no offesne to them politely informing me they would prefer I not use that term when speaking to them.
I agree with Archer whole heartedly, I respect everyone until such time as they show me they are undeserving of that respect.

_____________________________

The number one job of the dominant is to continually seduce consent from the bottom. ~Joseph W. Bean~

(in reply to SilverWulf)

Post #: 7

RE: old habits and respect due - 10/2/2007 7:54:54 PM

Kellendra

Posts: 95
Joined: 4/17/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverWulf

If you want to know the true measure of a person, watch how they treat the waitress/waiter.

So well said, and so true.
I respect myself and always try to respect others.
For me it is not earnt but it is a given, as part of their being human....yadda, yadda.
In my work I am expected to call people Sir and Ma'dam, and it does carry over I must admit. And I am ok with that, manners are important to me.
Will admit it gives me a sad wee secert thrill everytime I have to call a beautiful man Sir...ahhh i do like my job sometimes.

(in reply to SilverWulf)

Post #: 8

RE: old habits and respect due - 10/2/2007 10:02:48 PM

obis

Posts: 412
Joined: 9/9/2005
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline

I wouldn't spend a second of your life trying to "break" that habit. You're using manners, not conferring titles.

(in reply to Kellendra)

Post #: 9

RE: old habits and respect due - 10/2/2007 10:19:41 PM

Archer

Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

BTW I still use the old protocol that says a senior slave is often called Sir or Ma'am by a Junior Dominant. There are a very limited number of slaves I call Sir or Ma'am but they all seem to recognize it is in deference to their seniority.

(in reply to obis)

Post #: 10

RE: old habits and respect due - 10/2/2007 10:35:19 PM

breatheasone

Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

I see absolutely no reason to change polite respectful behavior imho

_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
candy posts in pink font

(in reply to jthaddeus)

Post #: 11

RE: old habits and respect due - 10/3/2007 5:02:11 AM

leakylee

Posts: 747
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline

they are wonderful habits, and great to hear nowadays. you can feel kinda silly when you still use Miss and Mr. in front of people's first names. that is really old school, and was a hard habit to break.

_____________________________

I am so not right, that I left..

(in reply to jthaddeus)

Post #: 12

RE: old habits and respect due - 10/3/2007 5:15:46 AM

Perplex

Posts: 110
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

Hey Jthaddeus,

Do what you are, don't try to fit in with some arbritrary set of rules set by people who may or may not know what they are talking about. I 'sir' everyone from the homeless guy outside the trainstaion looking for change to the president of my bank....I cut it off if the guy is under 16, though I've noticed little kids get a charge out of it :).

If you 'sir' someone and they say ' call me ralph' then call em ralph but otherwise dont' worry so much what folks think, esp. on an anomomyous board. My innate sexism does have me use "Miss vrs Ma'm" with a woman substatially younger than me which also happens to be what I call subs by my preference....I don't think all women are subs, but it is a term of respect.

and before anybody sez it, would you honestly own something/one you didn't respect? That's like buying a pinto and driving backwards or going to Union Carbide for saftey advice <ya can't go too wrong with anicent references *G*> I respect my dog, or I woulda gotten a different one, and I respect the work I've put into my dog and it's the same thing with subs. I will never understand dom's who take on subs they don't respect as people...if I ever get that desperate I just hope I hang it all up and go for coffee myself.

(in reply to jthaddeus)

Post #: 13

RE: old habits and respect due - 10/3/2007 6:15:18 AM

junecleaver

Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/6/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jthaddeus

Hello Everyone,

My father made a point of training me from a young age to refer to people as Sir and Ma'am. These habits I kept with me, and were later reenforced in the Army.

Now I'm in a situation where those titles mean something more, and are hence not to be conferred on everyone, (especially other submissives)

I believe my question is twofold.

1.) any advice for breaking this habbit and suggestions for an alternative honorific to use?

and

2.) How does one go about explaining a faux paus like this in case of mistake without the above rather lengthy discourse?

Thank you very much for your help and understanding.

Respectfully.

-- James

I've never used honorifics. I wasn't raised that way. Try using their name if you are asking a question instead of using an honorific. 'Bob, how are you?' instead of 'How are you, sir?'

Anytime I am really trying to break a habit, I put a rubberband on my wrist. When I catch myself making a mistake, I snap the rubberband. And it hurts. Eventually, my amount of mistakes increases and the problem becomes virtually non-existant.

_____________________________

"No one will ever win the battle of the sexes; there's too much fraternizing with the enemy. "
--Henry A. Kissinger

(in reply to jthaddeus)

Post #: 14

RE: old habits and respect due - 10/3/2007 6:51:10 AM

DMFParadox

Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline

That rubber band idea is a good one... but I see potential other uses. You can hear the gears cranking.... ^_^

As for the honorifics, the problem isn't the word itself--it's the context. Your body language, tone, and follow-up. I can use the word "Sir" or "Ma'am" as an insult, a verbal time-filler, a segue, or a term of deep respect, a joke, an expression of sadness, I can make you feel the feeling of dancing or action without consequence--all with that one word, and never make myself look submissive or inappropriate. But it's done by leaning in, or leaning out; by raising the pitch, or dropping it; by using "Sir" when somebody's done something utterly stupid, or "Miss" when they've just met me and by putting them in the "Miss" category, I can then abuse that category mercilessly--all as a hilarious joke or a horrible, unimpeachable insult.

The point: don't focus on the specific word, focus on the context, where you are when you use the honorific, and where you want to take it.

_____________________________

bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

(in reply to junecleaver)

Post #: 15

RE: old habits and respect due - 10/3/2007 8:38:35 AM

toservez

Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

There's no need to break it if you use it universally. Kinky people generally understand that we take on a pre existing code and adapt it to wiitwd.

The problem comes when you try to start using it discriminatingly against orientation or gender.

I just write to agree with everybody here that there is nothing to change. I quoted this in particular as people in the life can tell the difference between normal manners and referencing someone to this life and not to use polite terms to judge people better or more worthy of others.

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 16

RE: old habits and respect due - 10/3/2007 9:08:35 AM

Driver1961

Posts: 459
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

He dips His lid;

Your beliefs of 'how to engage socially' speak volumes of your character either positively or negatively.

I think you are worrying too much about this in relation to Lifestyle.

The Sir or M'am as you state is a mark of your respect to an individual. Those who cannot see that are not worth worrying about - they are simply insecure.

I see no issue in a submissive referring to another submissive as Sir or Ma'm in this respect. Should they politely object then they are acknowledging respect and self security. If another (Dom or sub) is however impolite in rebuke- move on from them for they show less understanding of 'respect' than yourself.

You will find a niche as you continue, in doing s, you will find those that do not deserve your respect.

(An opinion from a Dom who was always bewieldered by those that take manners as smugginess or arrogance. I now realise their responses indicate personal insecurities)

Warm regards Driver.

_____________________________

Dance as though nobody is watching!

(in reply to toservez)

Post #: 17

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