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RE: Dems propose tax to fund Iraq war - 10/2/2007 7:55:05 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

This is why I have said the term "Neo-Con" is not appropriate to Bush and similar republicans. They should be called Non-Cons.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Hell, if Bush didn't have the cash up front, what the hell was he thinking to borrow for it?

"Fiscal Responsibility" anyone?

Emperor Cuomo points out that Congress really walked away from their duty on the AUMF-Iraq, and perhaps the result would have been better considered if they needed to find the money first.

A neo-con,is a "non-con".

The only similarity, is the word "conservative".That`s where the similarities end.They have hi-jacked the term,and the republican party along with it.

By promising the Christian Right the moon,and corporate America,everything else,they have swindled themselves into power.

My hope is that they`ll destroy the republican party`s ability to win elected seats,or influence policy.

Right now,the Democratic party,is both the party of the democrats and of the mainstream republicans.

That`s because the neo-cons are so far to the right, that they`ve fallen off the table,or because they have no integrity.

Owner:
They are neither neo-cons nor non-cons simply con men hopefully soon to be convicts.
What saddens me even more is that this was proposed by democrats...all they have to do is stop funding the fucking war and it is over...the problem is that they do not want to end the war they just want to put all the blame on the other side...they all shit in the same bucket and they all feed at the same trough. There's not a nickles worth of difference between them.
thompson

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 21

RE: Dems propose tax to fund Iraq war - 10/2/2007 9:58:57 PM

Sinergy

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I guess the people arguing against the tax increase, which may / may not be the original poster, did not read the little sentence where the Democrats who proposed it said "It seems bad to force future generations to pay for the war."

They have my vote. It is called fiscal responsibility, for all you Iraq War cheerleaders out there.

Sinergy

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(in reply to dcnovice)

Post #: 22

RE: Dems propose tax to fund Iraq war - 10/4/2007 7:03:33 AM

MasDom

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I say make pot legal and tax that....

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 23

RE: Dems propose tax to fund Iraq war - 10/4/2007 7:07:02 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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That's your solution to everything!

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Post #: 24

RE: Dems propose tax to fund Iraq war - 10/4/2007 8:41:03 AM

kdsub

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Reality says we need money… even if it is to just pull troops out over time… what a mess… Hey I know how to pay for it!!!!

Take the money we are giving the useless UN.

Demand that all war debt owed the United States be repaid immediately or we will nationalize assets.

Tell the rest of the world either start paying us to protect you or pay the billions to build your own damn army.

Raise tariffs on foreign made goods….after all we buy way more than we sell now days. Yes it would raise the cost of goods to Walmart…and to us but…… it would fill the governments treasury and promote local manufacturing… local manufacturing will produce more tax income and income for our citizens.

Just a few ways…Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 10/4/2007 8:44:08 AM >

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 25

RE: Dems propose tax to fund Iraq war - 10/4/2007 9:44:37 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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Shhh... The Loyal Bushies don't wanna hear about nasty, nasty tariffs.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 26

RE: Dems propose tax to fund Iraq war - 10/4/2007 11:08:31 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasDom

I say make pot legal and tax that....

MasDom:
How about we make pot legal and not tax it.
thompson

(in reply to MasDom)

Post #: 27

RE: Dems propose tax to fund Iraq war - 10/4/2007 11:10:05 PM

RRafe

Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasDom

I say make pot legal and tax that....

MasDom:
How about we make pot legal and not tax it.
thompson

How about we legalize it, and the rest of the drugs. Put half of the criminals in the country out of business-and let all of those people we are warehousing in prisons for it out.

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(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 28

RE: Dems propose tax to fund Iraq war - 10/4/2007 11:19:09 PM

thompsonx

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Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Reality says we need money… even if it is to just pull troops out over time… what a mess… Hey I know how to pay for it!!!!
I think we should pull them out yesterday.

Take the money we are giving the useless UN.
The U.N has a lot of advantages for us so I would not do this.

Demand that all war debt owed the United States be repaid immediately or we will nationalize assets.
For those who have not paid at all I think this is a good idea. For any who have been making their regularly scheduled payments(I have no clue if there are any)this would be legally dubious.

Tell the rest of the world either start paying us to protect you or pay the billions to build your own damn army.
In the case of Japan this probably might not be a good idea. It is part of the treaty that ended WWII.
In the case of Korea and Taiwan....yup

Raise tariffs on foreign made goods….after all we buy way more than we sell now days. Yes it would raise the cost of goods to Walmart…and to us but…… it would fill the governments treasury and promote local manufacturing… local manufacturing will produce more tax income and income for our citizens.
I would agree with all foreign made goods that compete with domestic production. There really is no reason to tax non competing goods. Well no reason other than "revenue enhancement"

Just a few ways…Butch

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 29

RE: Dems propose tax to fund Iraq war - 10/5/2007 2:26:48 AM

meatcleaver

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Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Take the money we are giving the useless UN.

Er...after dismissing the UN as pointless, when the shit hit the fan Bush decided it wasn't that pointless after all.

Demand that all war debt owed the United States be repaid immediately or we will nationalize assets.

Yeah, try it, doh! The US will then be turning its back on its own ideology and 60 years of effort to get the world thinking like it does.

Tell the rest of the world either start paying us to protect you or pay the billions to build your own damn army.

You aren't protecting us, you never were, you were spreading US ideology and hegemony, its what empires do.

Raise tariffs on foreign made goods….after all we buy way more than we sell now days. Yes it would raise the cost of goods to Walmart…and to us but…… it would fill the governments treasury and promote local manufacturing… local manufacturing will produce more tax income and income for our citizens.

Then everyone else raises taxes on American goods. Swings and round abouts of today's world. You buy more than you sell because you are living beyond your means so I've a few ideas. Consume less, save more and spend less on the military and foreign jollies. Not only will your balance of payments become under control but people around the world will like you more.

Just a few ways…Butch

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(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 30

RE: Dems propose tax to fund Iraq war - 10/5/2007 6:00:26 AM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasDom

I say make pot legal and tax that....

MasDom:
How about we make pot legal and not tax it.
thompson

How about we legalize it, and the rest of the drugs. Put half of the criminals in the country out of business-and let all of those people we are warehousing in prisons for it out.

RRafe:
That werx for me.
I do not believe that it would put half of the criminals in the country out of business but rather it would make them legitimate businesses and as such income tax paying entities.
thompson

(in reply to RRafe)

Post #: 31

RE: Dems propose tax to fund Iraq war - 10/5/2007 8:29:07 AM

kdsub

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Joined: 8/16/2007
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Hi meatcleaver

I do like the idea of the United Nations… but the idea does not reflect reality. Please read the Preamble of the charter below

PREAMBLE
WE THE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS DETERMINED
to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind, and
to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women and of nations large and small, and to establish conditions under which justice and respect for the obligations arising from treaties and other sources of international law can be maintained, and to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,
AND FOR THESE ENDS
to practice tolerance and live together in peace with one another as good neighbors, and to unite our strength to maintain international peace and security, and to ensure, by the acceptance of principles and the institution of methods, that armed force shall not be used, save in the common interest, and to employ international machinery for the promotion of the economic and social advancement of all peoples,

How are they doing?….I truly wish it could work but never has and I’m afraid it never will. In fact I believe it is worse than nothing. Countries use it for a political forum, including the US, while people die around the world. They debate for years and action is not taken until too late.

So we are not protecting you…tell that to the 350,000 Americans that died saving your way of life…more than once.

I am all for raising tariffs on American goods around the world…As I stated that would promote more manufacturing here…making jobs.
Butch

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 32

RE: Dems propose tax to fund Iraq war - 10/5/2007 9:21:49 AM

thompsonx

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Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

So we are not protecting you…tell that to the 350,000 Americans that died saving your way of life…more than once.
These 350,000 would be the ones who died murdering the native Americans so we could steal their land. The ones who died in the Mexican-American war murdering Mexicans so we could steal half of their country. The ones who died in the Civil war. The ones who died in China murdering Chinese who were tired of us butt fucking them economically. The ones who died in Cuba and the Philippines murdering Spaniards so we could expand our economic empire. The ones who died in WWI for the economic interests of the bankers and financiers. The ones who died in Dominican Republic for the interest of United Fruit co. The ones who died in Nicaragua for the interest of Chase financial services and United Fruit co. The ones who died in WW II to advance the economic agenda of corporate amerika. The ones who died in Korea to ensure a continued cheap supply of tungsten. The ones who died in Viet Nam for the oil and tin interests. The ones currently dying in Iraq for oil.
There is an interesting little book called "War is a Racket" by General Smedley Butler USMC MOH. In it he describes who makes money on war and how much.
If you do a little research on this individual you will find that he was hand picked by Singer,Chase et al to be the front man in a coup de tat against FDR. But instead of taking the job he ratted the assholes off to congress.

I am all for raising tariffs on American goods around the world…As I stated that would promote more manufacturing here…making jobs.
I am not sure of the economic soundness of raising the tariffs on American goods around the world. It would not promote more manufacturing jobs here. My guess here is that you meant the opposite... to raise the tariffs on goods imported into the U.S. thus making domestic production more competitive with the products produced by slave labor. Which is what you stated in your first post and I agree with completely.

Butch

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 33

RE: Dems propose tax to fund Iraq war - 10/5/2007 9:29:34 AM

SugarMyChurro

Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
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For those not knowing this is from the Republican playbook:

1. Do some idiot shit (war, pork spending, etc) that costs a lot and lines the pocket of your friends
2. Lose elections
3. Make those "tax and spend" Democrats have to pay for it once they are in office
4. The newly elected Democrats can't achieve much else because they have no financial mobility
5. Republicans get reelected because Democrats can't do anything and raise taxes
6. Repeat.

Cha-ching!

Obviously this congress wants the right people to get the bill. This kind of move points up how the Republicans are spending money they haven't got and will never have.

This war specifically benefits particular industries - it is corporate cronyism of the worst kind.

Why not make the political point? I would.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 34

RE: Dems propose tax to fund Iraq war - 10/5/2007 9:37:30 AM

kdsub

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Joined: 8/16/2007
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Hi thompsonx

Those 350,000 were just world wars.

They did not include the Korean War…which took my big brother.

I fought in the Vietnam War… not for tin.

Please remember the reasons for all the other wars you listed may or may not be true BUT the soldiers did not go to war for those reasons. They went to war for a way of life that allows people like you to disparage their country and sacrifices.
Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 10/5/2007 9:38:49 AM >

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 35

RE: Dems propose tax to fund Iraq war - 10/5/2007 9:45:56 AM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I am all for raising tariffs on American goods around the world…As I stated that would promote more manufacturing here…making jobs.

...assuming you mean tariffs on imports, it is a short term solution that would bite the US economy very hard in the medium and long term. It would merely start a tit for tat tariff war that would see the US paying very dear for the raw materials needed to manfacture goods for their domestic market. Is the US energy self sufficient? Not as far as i know, so go on........make it hard for foreigners to sell to the US and they'll simply sell to someone else. Your idea, in the medium and long term spells doom for the US economy.
Like it or not, it is a global economy with interdependent relationships. The US is not above the fray and arguably can not become that way.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 36

RE: Dems propose tax to fund Iraq war - 10/5/2007 9:49:28 AM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

They went to war for a way of life that allows people like you to disparage their country and sacrifices.

..if that were strictly true in WW2 then the US would have been involved from 1939. They weren't..........the US didn't fight for my way of lifemwhen it was threatened, they fought for theirs when it was threatened.....now that's all well and good but don't try to tell me the US protects my way of life out of an ideological desire when it plainly doesn't. It fought, as most countries do, for self preservation.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 37

RE: Dems propose tax to fund Iraq war - 10/5/2007 10:23:52 AM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
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From: New Hampshire
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I thought the Dems were running on getting us OUT of Iraq?
Now they're talking about getting us "gradually" out?
Now Sen. Clinton is talking about 2013?
This is shades of Vietnam all over again.
I support the Troops 100% but I don't support building hospitals, roads, airports, and bridges in foreign countries.
That's called "Nation Building."
Rebuilding Iraq after 30 years of neglect by Saddam wasn't part of the deal.
And now there's a congressional report out about massive corruption in Iraq and again billions of U.S. Taxpayer Dollars are being stolen.
There are just too many companies and people making too much money from this war. And again behind the scenes are the lobbyists on K street.
And meanwhile our infrastructure in this country is collapsing.
Here's a better idea than a "sur-tax" just fucking leave. In one week.
It's nothing but a shooting gallery over there for our Troops.
Bush was right, "Mission accomplished." We got Saddam so get out!
I really couldn't care less what happens in that country after we leave.
What a novel idea by the Dems, more "tax and spend."
That's all they know.
Tax The People's money and then spend it.
And anyone with any smarts would get the Troops out of Iraq and put them on the Mexican border where they're actually *needed.*

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Post #: 38

RE: Dems propose tax to fund Iraq war - 10/5/2007 10:32:48 AM

kdsub

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Hi Evil

We are lucky here in the US to have an abundance of raw materials… even oil if we quit selling it for higher prices in other parts of the world. I think we would do just fine…perhaps better than most with an internal economy.

Remember Germany did not attack us Japan did… we volunteered to die for your fathers in Europe.

I do not argue about fighting for self-preservation…just remember fighting for an economy is also self- preservation. I believe a good portion of wars over history were fights for resources.
Kings fight for a place in history and conquest…Democracy’s fight for freedom and resources.
Butch

(in reply to philosophy)

Post #: 39

RE: Dems propose tax to fund Iraq war - 10/5/2007 1:45:08 PM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Remember Germany did not attack us Japan did… we volunteered to die for your fathers in Europe.

...again no........if that had been the motivation you'd have entered the war in 1939. The USA fought against the side that attacked it....the Axis powers. It didn't lift a finger while London was having the crap bombed out of it.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 40

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