A recent trend... (Full Version)

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MrThorns -> A recent trend... (7/25/2005 4:15:16 PM)

I had a conversation on the couch with smilezz last night about a trend that seems to have made it's way onto the boards and I wanted to open the discussion a bit.

The trend that we have noticed is an increase of posts on various BDSM-related sites that deal with dominants returning home from the war. Several of these posts mention a dominant's lack of desire for BDSM in their lives and completely dissolving any and all M/s relations that they may have had prior to going overseas.

I have my own thoughts and opinions on this matter, but I would really like to hear more about what you all think about this phenomenon. What do you think causes this? What are some solutions? What would you do if you found yourself in a similiar situation?

Inquiring minds and all...

~Thorns




Hissweetshiv -> RE: A recent trend... (7/25/2005 4:37:27 PM)

Please understand before i answer that other than a couple psych classes in college, i have NO b/g in the mental health industry and i know darn well i'm no expert.

The only "cause" for such a thing that comes readily to mind is a large change in outlook due to their experiences overseas. This may be a well balanced lifestyle change, or depression/PTSD causing a lack of interest in life in general and lifestyle activities in particular. As for solutions, that would depend on which (if either) category the person fell into. If they were depressed, i would suggest counselling or therapy. If they had simply changed and were no longer interested in expressing their Dominance in lifestyle activities, then i don't believe that there is a "solution". People change, life goes on. If i found myself in this situation (speaking as a hypothetical submissive to this hypothetical ex-Dominant) i would of course be upset. If talking things out failed, then it would be time to evaluate which was more important - the relationship with the person, or the lifestyle. (Good LORD this looks coldhearted - not meant that way... i simply believe in "better now than in 5 years when it will hurt more" )



MrThorns -> RE: A recent trend... (7/25/2005 4:43:26 PM)

I don't think your attitude is cold hearted in the least. I think it's very rational, but unfortunately, when exceedingly strong emotions come into the picture, rational thought is one of the first things to go..

Thanks for your input.

~Thorns




EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: A recent trend... (7/25/2005 6:54:37 PM)

I think that makes sense Shiv. Let's face it, a LOT dominants go through "burnout" at some point, either due to dropping out of frenzy or just moving on from life issues.

So readjusting back to everyday life at home is not easy.

When I lived in Ireland and returned it was difficult because to anyone else I could have been out getting some gas just for a really long time. They had no conception of what I had done or experienced and had grown, they expected me back as I had left. I had to learn to re-assimilate them into the new me and they had to learn about the new me.

And that's just living and studying, I'd imagine a war situation to be far more stressful and dramatic for a person to have to re-adjust from.



smilezz -> RE: A recent trend... (7/25/2005 6:59:01 PM)

Edited because i have nothing nice to say where this whole thread decided to go



slavedesires -> RE: A recent trend... (7/25/2005 7:02:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: smilezz

Here's an added thought to this:
The Dominant/Husband (in the case i have been reading) comes back home from war...He states because of what He has been through, He no longer can do a M/s relationship...no more S/M.....the collar comes off His slave/wife.......they are both still very much in love with each other.

Thoughts?

~smilezz~


I can understand why no more SM...but i feel if one is truly themselves, that is dom and sub, there will still be some sort of TPE.

my thought initially.

very great topic though, thank you

~~shy



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: A recent trend... (7/25/2005 7:04:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: smilezz

Here's an added thought to this:
The Dominant/Husband (in the case i have been reading) comes back home from war...He states because of what He has been through, He no longer can do a M/s relationship...no more S/M.....the collar comes off His slave/wife.......they are both still very much in love with each other.

Thoughts?

~smilezz~

Love is never enough to make a relationship work. They can work together and see if there is still enough compatibility/desire to keep the relationship thriving or decide it's not there anymore.



kisshou -> RE: A recent trend... (7/25/2005 7:55:31 PM)

I think if she made the commitment to beg his collar she should be there for him no matter what. Even if that means forgoing having her needs met due to his mental health problems from serving in the military during times of war. She should do her best to be there for him and help him get help in readjusting. It would be very hard but by not serving him when he could not handle it, she would still be serving him, and that is what is all about (Him).



MzK -> RE: A recent trend... (7/25/2005 8:32:19 PM)

I have a feeling it could be quite possible that the whole concept of BDSM may have changed for this man after witnessing the atrocities of war, the REAL pain and suffering. It may take him a long time to return to how things were and he may never return. Sometimes our experiences change us for life.



FangsNfeet -> RE: A recent trend... (7/25/2005 8:37:02 PM)

Unfortunatly, I'm not military. Mostly due to a damn accident envolving a mixture of cleaning chemicals and hot water back when I was a Mister 16 know it all. Though I'm still very physicaly active and have a clean bill of health from non military pulmunologist, the military says they can't take the risk.

Any how, from the friends that I have come back from the war and other wars, it's mostly just the time of rest that the need. So I've been told, in boot camp and such you are suppose to take out the man and put in the soldier. However, there's not much of a program that puts the man back when when the soldier leaves or is no longer needed. Soldiers are trained to be obiedient, loayl, and act on commands thus not giving you much a dom side unless you get bumped up a little in the ranks. If you only live on a base where you get out often, it's much easier to come back to yourself. But when overseas in time of war, weither you're officially on on off duty, you are always on duty none the less and can very much go without being yourself for some time.

Ofcourse I am not speaking for every soldier. Only the generalization that my military friends have given me on why behaviors and such can change when back from war.

As for the people who have been in the military up to 10 yrs plus, civilian life as been a bit frustraiting. For the people who where trained to be nurses, engineers, pilots, and other careers, the civilian world dose not aknowledge there trainning and says that you still have to attend school to obtain and work thoses skills. A military nurse still has to attend nurseing school regardless of all the past training to work in the civilian world. I've been told that this is how the military keeps you in the military and why ROTC is recommended so you don't have to go through everything twice when wanting an education and working the job in both military and civilian life. Perhaps this last paragraph is some what off topic but does add to the psychological aspect of when one goes back to being a civilian. I've seen many ppl who had outstanding training along with PR skills who come back to only be able to work jobs under $10/hr.



domtimothy46176 -> RE: A recent trend... (7/25/2005 8:39:28 PM)

It does beg the question, though, "How does one refuse to own one's slave, without putting her out the door completely?" I feel for those who find themselves in such straits but it's an interesting question, nonetheless. Even if one gave one's slave a direct order to no longer serve, if she obeyed, that too would still be a form of service, would it not?
An argument can be made that service must be recognized but there are undoubtedly those who would disagree. In the case of a husband and a wife who continue to cohabitate, I would think that service would be well nigh unavoidable so long as she remained devoted to his service. Depending, of course, upon the nature of the dynamic, one might find little or no practical difference in day to day life.
Timothy



happypervert -> RE: A recent trend... (7/25/2005 8:42:16 PM)

The only folks who can really answer this are the ones coming back, but I'll take a guess anyway. I bet that they have had to get into a certain headspace to do their jobs there and they don't want to get anywhere near that again because it would be more painful than fun.



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: A recent trend... (7/25/2005 8:43:00 PM)

Another list I am on has been debating this point- whether a slave should camp out on the doorstep after being released. Majority consensus is that it depends on the language that the dominant used during release and the expectations involved within the relationship prior to release.



FangsNfeet -> RE: A recent trend... (7/25/2005 9:12:25 PM)

quote:

The only folks who can really answer this are the ones coming back, but I'll take a guess anyway. I bet that they have had to get into a certain headspace to do their jobs there and they don't want to get anywhere near that again because it would be more painful than fun.


Yes Happypervert I will not arugue with you on that. Many men from the military say to there loved ones to be carefull when getting in the bed with them and perhaps not to do it at all when they are asleep. Certain movement and no sneaking behind you is a big "NO!" I've meet the women who have didn't take these warnings seriously and for those who stayed in the relationship, the never did it again.

So yes, there can be more pan than fun as well as the fact that they wish not to ever have there loved one go through that experience where he acts before thinking due to routine training, paranoia, and automatic reaction.



Faramir -> RE: A recent trend... (7/25/2005 9:25:26 PM)

I'm not sure this is true - that returning servicemembers have a high incidence of loosing functionality in intimacy or changing their intimacy. It may be just anecdotal - I would want to see some kind of survey before I accepted that.

It doesn't match what hear anecdotally or my personal experience.



MrThorns -> RE: A recent trend... (7/26/2005 8:06:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MzK

I have a feeling it could be quite possible that the whole concept of BDSM may have changed for this man after witnessing the atrocities of war, the REAL pain and suffering. It may take him a long time to return to how things were and he may never return. Sometimes our experiences change us for life.


I had considered this possibility as well. PTSD, or simply "Intensity overload" could easily cause someone to lose interest in inflicting pain on another.

The other possibility I had been considering was that it has less to do with the S&M aspects of the relationship and more to do with the D/s, especially for the soldiers who served in leadership positions. They had to be responsible for the lives of their soldiers throughout the conflict. Do they really want to have to be responsible for the life and welfare of their slave, now that they are back home?

~Thorns



CreativeControl -> RE: A recent trend... (7/26/2005 8:30:06 PM)

Just a quick note...I thought this topic looked very interesting because I have a friend over in Iraq right now. He just shipped out in the last month, and won't be home for a year, possibly sooner if he gets leave, but that isn't confirmed.

He confided to all of his friends while he was home for a short leave between bootcamp and shipping out, that he is concerned as to how he will be once he leaves the service after his year over there. That is if he isn't killed...which is a whole other thing to sit through and talk about with a good friend going off to war who has a wife and kids.

My point, is that he was in law enforcement prior to getting called up, and he is concerned with feeling like he might kill someone after he returns home to his old job.

This is just after bootcamp mind you, he hasn't even fired at any insurgents as of yet...he has been trained to kill, to focus that energy and anger at the enemy, and it takes a toll on someone after experiencing it all. his placement over there is doing some of the most dangerous work, he is on the road drawing fire from the enemy to make them visible targets. Working in the Medical field is another bad situation as well, dealing with the victims of insurgent gunfire and roadbombs can be very overwhelming. These are all big mental issues needing to be dealt with after returning from combat.

Anyway, that is my contribution to this topic...let's hope all come home safe, and give them the time to acclimate themselves to possibly want that M/s relationship again.

Thanks for listening, or rather reading...

Farris



Alexander -> RE: A recent trend... (7/27/2005 10:10:18 AM)

I've read so much of the accounts from returning vets and the account of a psychologist who worked with the psych patients at Walter Reed (whose papers were classified after he wrote them), I can barely even approach this subject without a feeling of rage. (Theres a standing policy in the psych ward to shift the subject to a patients family when they want to talk about the war. Enough said.)

Objectively, I believe its just part of the decompression process for vets returning with a 'relatively' normal wartime experience. Unfortunately many of the frontline fighters are experiencing combat times far above the averages experienced in previous wars. Military docs have tended to agree since world war 2 that at and around the 16 hours 'under fire' mark a patients time to return to a state of relative calm and normalcy slows down along a curve eventually deteriorating to a point they can not return to normal. depending on the soldier, its going to be X(amount of time) in combat multiplied by Y(intensity of combat event) to determines the rate and length of return to normalcy. Many of these lifestyle changes upon return are just the way the soldiers are determinging their own recovery space and will change or return after that time. (I want to say this is from dupuy: statistics and warfare but may have the ref wrong.)

Nothing makes a man dream of peace and stillness more then the hours forced contemplating death and the kill.

If you want to know more about returning vets, and I mean the kind of more you're not going to get on the radio and television in this country at this time, I suggest and encourage you to all to contact and support the men and women who are coming home at operation truth.org. Operation Truth is a nonprofit, non-partisan veterans advocacy organization. They are the first and largest Iraq veterans group in America



Faramir -> RE: A recent trend... (7/27/2005 10:37:46 AM)

Operation Truth is indeed an advocacy group, but theyare hardly non-partisan. They are a liberal group that is clearly critical of the Republican administration and friendly to the Democratic oposition.

Nothing wrong with that at all - God bless all forms of political communication - but it is by no means non-partisan. They have a policy axe to grind.



Alexander -> RE: A recent trend... (7/27/2005 11:00:25 AM)

quote:

Operation Truth is indeed an advocacy group, but theyare hardly non-partisan. They are a liberal group that is clearly critical of the Republican administration and friendly to the Democratic oposition.

Nothing wrong with that at all - God bless all forms of political communication - but it is by no means non-partisan. They have a policy axe to grind.


Bullshit. and if I might add, way to piss on the largest group of advocates for returning vets in America. Guess you were done when you put your magnet on your car.

Are you literally so blinded by politics you are going to say the largest group of advocates for returning vets in America is liberal because it doesnt suit your particular political bent? This is what I hate about partisan assholes these days. If it makes their party look bad they pretend that its not true. Party before people , thats the motto. Dont like the truth? attack the messenger. You go to that sight and you read the accounts of returning vets and then you sit back in your armchair and pretend its all a conspiracy by liberals to make the president look bad if thats who you are. This is how republican partisans deal with everything that doesn't fit their fucking dogma these days. Pretend it is a liberal conspiracy. This is why I left the fucking republican party in the first place. Deaf dumb and blind and loving it that way.

go to the fucking sight and read it. Being critical of our government is a fucking right and privledge no matter what side of the line your on. That organisation is for vets PERIOD first foremost and last. That organisation supports the troops with action not words. If they are critical of the administration because they have needs its because tha'ts who is in charge for this war.

Think.



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