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Failing collars. - 10/5/2007 7:51:34 AM   
Alyoop


Posts: 138
Joined: 6/16/2007
Status: offline 		[Quote/]
I suppose that every man has the right to his own conclusions with a girl. But, I agree with this and always have. It goes to my old opinion that a failed slave is most likely the result of the master(owner). Like chew toy said in her post subsequently her owner pushes back harder. I look at it this way. Are you truly a master of anything if you give up on it? That sounds dreadfully close to surrendering to me.

Live well,

Bull
[Quote/]
Greetings again all,

I read this in another forum and some thoughts came to mind. How do you view failing a collar? Does it depend on the circumstance as to who the blame lies on? I have a hard time believing that every failing is the owners fault.

To me (and this is 100% just my own opinion) if there was no Mastery to begin with there really wasn’t any submission. We live in this wonderful world of consensual slavery, I submit to whom I choose to. Or else you can carry your happy butt to jail! But unfortunately in the world of consensual slavery we come upon times where we don’t just automatically give that submission. It has to be almost in a word, taken from us.

So if that is the case and a sub is withholding submission, is it really the owners fault for the relationship not growing?

I am scatter brained today in my thoughts, but still wanted to put it out there. I cannot wait to hear ya'lls answers!


_____________________________

----------------------
Alyoop

In the arithmetic of love, one plus one equals everything, and two minus one equals nothing.
~ Mignon McLaughlin

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RE: Failing collars. - 10/5/2007 8:02:27 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		It takes TWO people to make a relationship work.

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~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Alyoop)
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RE: Failing collars. - 10/5/2007 8:04:26 AM   
Sabella


Posts: 265
Joined: 7/26/2005
Status: offline 		Great post!

I think like with any relationship there can be no-fault failure. Say a person who is excellent at what they do, but not quite what the company was looking for when they hired them. Or two people get together & they just don't quite click long term.

People may have ideas of what they want entering a relationship, but those can change as the relationship evolves. Maybe they aren't willing or able to go the extra mile that the other person requires. Maybe the other person is asking too much? or not enough?

/ramble

MY definition of "failing a collar" would be the sub wasn't found acceptable thru lack of effort, not personality or training or compatibility. In which case they aren't trying to achieve mutually agreed upon goals. I guess the same could apply for "failing a leash" or something for the Dom :D


_____________________________

“The giant Grof was hit in one eye by a stone,
and that eye turned inward so that it looked into his mind and he died of what he saw there.”
From The Forgotten Beasts of Eld, by Patricia A. McKillip

(in reply to Alyoop)
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RE: Failing collars. - 10/5/2007 8:19:14 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

It takes TWO people to make a relationship work.
Here's the answer. And who is to say that that every D/s relationship that has failed was due to dominance, submission, or lack there of.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Failing collars. - 10/5/2007 9:29:42 AM   
IamJustMe2C


Posts: 94
Joined: 10/2/2007
Status: offline 		Personally I have found that when a D's relationship does not last it is not because of the collar or the submission or lack there of. But the people use it as a excape from the relationship. Just as the Vanilla do when they say your nagging me to death or you dont love me like you used to. Think hard about this, think about your past relationships that have failed..............  Ok the dynamics of the realtionship change that is just growth. This is just there way of saying I dont want to grow any more. It dosent matter if it in a D's or Vanilla relationship. But you also mention something else in your post that drew me in.                    So if that is the case and a sub is withholding submission           To with hold submission is natural. subconsicually you want to test you Top and see there hold over you. yes the Top can try as hard as he want to to force you to do this and that but because its on your "hard limit shelf" there is no way you will.  
     But if the Top can gentley caress you and stroke you and reach up to the shelf and just pull a fiber at a time off of what ever it is you have up there before you realise it you have just experianced something that you were afraid of or at one time had a hard limit on. This is what I call taking submission blindley. Realise here that this is just a example but it can be true in all aplications.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
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RE: Failing collars. - 10/5/2007 9:29:43 AM   
meticulousgirl


Posts: 969
Joined: 2/20/2007
Status: offline 		It does take two to make something work but if the Master has choosen to just give up without much going wrong that really isn't fair or justifiable to the sub.  If there is something more serious in the underlying grounds than maybe but to just give up at least to me......it's not only not fair but should be seen as a last resort.

~meticulous~

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Failing collars. - 10/5/2007 9:35:22 AM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

It takes TWO people to make a relationship work.
Here's the answer. And who is to say that that every D/s relationship that has failed was due to dominance, submission, or lack there of.


I also agree. Two people with full effort and are compatible is the only way a healthy relationship survives.

To defend Bull a little, I am wondering if he was not talking more about the responsibility of a Master to be proactive in the relationship and just being reactive can be very problematic in a power exchange relationship.


_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to OsideGirl)
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RE: Failing collars. - 10/5/2007 9:46:23 AM   
sambamanslilgirl


Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

It takes TWO people to make a relationship work.

agreed 1000%




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(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Failing collars. - 10/5/2007 10:27:40 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		to this slave, the collar, as well as the leash are both a symbol of a specific relationship.
that relationship might last for an hour, a weekend or a lifetime.
if the relationship fails or ceases to be, then all parties share in the failing, or the end.
some suffer sorrow and grief, others...joy and contentment.
 
blame would only be relevant to those who aren't fully present, therapy sessions, replicant-support issues or courtroom appearances required after the fact, as or if necessary.

(in reply to Alyoop)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Failing collars. - 10/5/2007 10:36:27 AM   
HisCompletely


Posts: 53
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline 		I agree, it takes two.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Failing collars. - 10/5/2007 1:37:31 PM   
txgirlneedsister


Posts: 19
Joined: 10/3/2007
Status: offline 		I guess I just think out of the box here. I think a HUGE responsibility falls onto the owners. Yes there are some instances where a sub f’s up a situation. But I only give my submission to a select few, and if a Dom just throws it away then I would feel betrayed. Must just be me though.

TX girl

(in reply to HisCompletely)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Failing collars. - 10/5/2007 1:57:31 PM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: txgirlneedsister

I guess I just think out of the box here. I think a HUGE responsibility falls onto the owners. Yes there are some instances where a sub f’s up a situation. But I only give my submission to a select few, and if a Dom just throws it away then I would feel betrayed. Must just be me though.

TX girl


I do not think you are that out of the box. I know Bull a little through correspondence and I would be willing to bet what you describe is more on to what he was getting on about.

I think most on here, at least from threads I have read, believe leader is a vital part of being a dominant and therefore if something failed as a leader the normal quality of a leader is to take responsibility for that failure. I think this is not the same as the failure is always blamed on the dominant but just a dominant accepting responsibility of the failure, not that the submissive cannot or should not feel responsible for their part. Maybe splitting hairs, I know, but that is the difference in my eyes to what was trying to be communicated.


_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to txgirlneedsister)
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RE: Failing collars. - 10/5/2007 7:41:14 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		The castle built on sand...........

Slips into the sea.......

Eventually.

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I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

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RE: Failing collars. - 10/5/2007 11:13:15 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Well, I do believe ONE person can singlehandedly be the demise of a relationship, but it definitely takes two to make it work and anyone who worries so much about placing blame isn't a good candidate for any relationship with me.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Failing collars. - 10/6/2007 1:53:52 AM   
obis


Posts: 412
Joined: 9/9/2005
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Yeah, it's rarely one person's fault if a relationship fails, and NEVER one person's credit if it succeeds

I certainly failed as a master the one time a slave took off my collar for something other than "normal" life reasons.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Failing collars. - 10/6/2007 3:01:00 AM   
Sabella


Posts: 265
Joined: 7/26/2005
Status: offline 		So what was the "abnormal" life reason Obis? just curious now.

(in reply to obis)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Failing collars. - 10/6/2007 4:07:29 AM   
littlebitxxx


Posts: 732
Status: offline 		I agree it takes two to make it or break it.  A Master can't master a sub who won't submit.  A sub who tries to submit to a Master that won't take it has no one to submit to.  If she can give, he's gotta be able to take.  If he wants to take, she's gotta give.

_____________________________

There is no such thing as can't unless it is followed by yet

It is the meaningless little acts that become meaningful in the doing.

The people that mind don't matter and the people that matter don't mind.

(in reply to Sabella)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Failing collars. - 10/6/2007 5:09:38 PM   
obis


Posts: 412
Joined: 9/9/2005
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabella
So what was the "abnormal" life reason Obis? just curious now.


LOL, by normal life reasons I mean things like moving, growing and needing different things than I could offer, etc. Typical reasons for a relationship to end where it isn't anyone's fault or a failure, just a reflection that most relationships aren't meant to last for a lifetime. I'm friends with all of my (other) exes.

The one "abnormal" reason was basically where things went truly *wrong* with the relationship -- I let her down as a master in some ways I wasn't fully aware of, she wanted so much to please that she didn't bring it to my attention, resentment started, and then other circumstances conspired to create more emotional distance between us at the worst possible time. She had my complete trust and love to the very end, and used that to drag things out, deceive me and hurt me in a fairly cruel way.

So although the immediate cause of the relationship ending was her actions, the seed was planted by my own failure to keep her respect as a master. Painful lessons to learn about expectations, communication and many other things.

(in reply to Sabella)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Failing collars. - 10/6/2007 6:07:36 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Well, I do believe ONE person can singlehandedly be the demise of a relationship, but it definitely takes two to make it work and anyone who worries so much about placing blame isn't a good candidate for any relationship with me.
Absolutely, and that has nothing to do with D/s.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 19
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