What do you know? (Full Version)

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luckydog1 -> What do you know? (10/6/2007 7:40:10 PM)

For months, convicted tax evaders Ed and Elaine Brown pledged to die in a hailstorm of bullets rather than surrender to federal agents. They had survived on food, water, and supplies delivered by supporters who came from across the country to their heavily fortified, secluded mountain compound in Plainfield, N.H....At 7:45 Thursday evening, US marshals in plainclothes pretending to be supporters of the Browns lured the couple onto the porch of their fortified compound and arrested them on the spot. No shots were fired.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/10/06/marshals_ploy_ended_standoff_peacefully/




Termyn8or -> RE: What do you know? (10/7/2007 6:21:21 AM)

I don't know what you were expecting in the way of a response, but here goes.

The Browns fucked up. It should've never came to this. They took the wrong advice. There is alot of wrong advice out there, so if you ever decide to blow off the taxman, you better know what you are doing.

First of all I'll bet real money that they filed tax returns for the years in question. That was their first mistake. Eighty percent of the people doing time for taxes filed, while a much larger percentage who did not file get off. Why ?

You think a tax return is but a receipt or something, it is not. It is a contract and you sign under penalty of perjury that what you filled in is the truth. The plain and simple fact is that if you sign a tax form you cannot fight them at all. You owe what they say.

There is only one defense that works, there are variations, but it has nothing to do with the amendment. The fact is what you need to do is to force the prosecution to identify you UNDER THE LAW as a taxpayer, note, this is not IRS code, the IRS is a private corporation and has no more right to make law than Electrolux or General Motors.

So you force them to find the statute that compels YOU to pay taxes. They can not do it.

So all your major assets are tied up for about a year (10 months if you're lucky) but in the end you do not pay and you get your shit back. People have talked about suing them for loss of use but nobody has had quite the balls to do it yet. I'm sure it has been done, as well as suing them for all the taxes you ever paid in your whole life. But these are courts of this country and the odds of winning that are slim.

The defense for not being a taxpayer has it's roots in law, their own law, and that is why it works, but to get your money back, well I have heard of people going after that but I have never heard of anyone being successful.

So count you chickens when they are hatched, and don't try to get those chicken back from years ago. These people have unlimited resources, and the only thing you got going for you is that it is a court of record. That means your lawfully based assertions are presented to the court IN WRITING. Oral testimony is too easy to strike from the record, which I think should be illegal. But when you submit a document to a court persuant to a certain case, it become evidence and they simply cannot discard it. This is where you prove your point.

Then it is a matter of public record and if the judge disregards it, well judges hate to have their decisions overturned, so a matter of public record is of concern to them. This is your wedge, your leverage.

Looks like the Browns listened to these Yaweh motherfuckers who land more innocent people in jail than the government, well not really, but by percentage it holds true. There is a specific way to fight, and if you do not do it right you go to jail. They made the rules, they made the loophole. Your beliefs mean nothing, it is the code and statute, you must learn to use the loophole correctly.

You see, I KNOW the Browns filed, and I KNOW that was their undoing. How do I KNOW that ? The IRS says they owe what $625,000 ? How did they get that figure ? So of course they filed.

You really can avoid paying income tax if you are a Natural born Citizen, but it takes planning. If you don't know what you are doing you will join the Browns, who obviously didn't.

If anyone is really interested in blowing off the taxman, get me on the other side, I will not turn this forum into a law school.

T




DomKen -> RE: What do you know? (10/7/2007 7:28:39 AM)

The law that compels US residents to pay taxes on earnings is U.S.C. 25.

The IRS is a federal agency inside the Department of the Treasury.

No one has EVER won a tax evasion case making those claims. If anyone claims otherwise ask them to provide the case citations and then go find the judgements and read them yourself. It will save you some unpleasant surprises dow the line.




Alumbrado -> RE: What do you know? (10/7/2007 8:27:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

For months, convicted tax evaders Ed and Elaine Brown pledged to die in a hailstorm of bullets rather than surrender to federal agents. They had survived on food, water, and supplies delivered by supporters who came from across the country to their heavily fortified, secluded mountain compound in Plainfield, N.H....At 7:45 Thursday evening, US marshals in plainclothes pretending to be supporters of the Browns lured the couple onto the porch of their fortified compound and arrested them on the spot. No shots were fired.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/10/06/marshals_ploy_ended_standoff_peacefully/


Those Fascist pigs!  How dare they deprive bona fide US citizens of their Constitutionally guaranteed right to die in a hailstorm of bullets?

Where's Badnarik when we need him?



[:D]




Termyn8or -> RE: What do you know? (10/8/2007 8:56:56 AM)

Domken, the crux of the defense is that the US is strictly defined to be the District of Columbia and military bases and federal buildings.

Actually the idea is to never get hauled into court. You assert yourself as not being in the US, under the law they wrote.

If you do not understand this I am not surprised, very few people do. I am not saying anyone is stupid, they take great care not to reveal certain things.

You never challenge what is income and what is not, you challenge their assertion that you are a taxpayer under the law. And the IRS IS a private corporation, I have copies of their original incorporation papers. They cannot make law. But when you sign the contract known as the 1040 you become legally bound. Just like when you sign a contract for like a cellphone, or to buy a house.

If you care to push the issue I will get proof and send it to you.

I am not saying everyone can do this. Remember the definition of the US, if you work for any branch of the government you cannot get non-taxpayer status. If you even work on property owned by the government you can't do it.

My buddy did it, I SAW THE PAPERS FROM THE IRS WITH MY OWN EYES. He was a contractor and made around a quarter million a year. They knew right where he was all the time. And this is not all a bed of roses, well maybe it is but it has thorns. There were jobs he had to turn down because of this.

But not giving up a third of his money was worth it. I don't, and you don't have to. I am not in the business of promoting these plans, but there are certain ones that work, really.

I am ready for the IRS, the RIAA and the MPAA. I can't just give you my name and everything in the open forum, but my initiasls are JU and I am in Cleveland Ohio. When they come for me it is likely that you will see me in the news. I am going to beat them at their own game, even following their own rules. Just watch me.

I do not recommend anyone do this. If you do not know exactly what you are doing or fail to pay attention to details you will wind up in jail.

Thing is Ken, the people who win do not win in court, they never get hauled into court. That may be hard to understand, but there are about 200,000 people in this country that the IRS simply will not go after. It does not hurt them, the rest of the 300,000,000 pay enough to keep them in business.

Do I feel guilty because of my fellow Americans' tax burden ? No. If they ever get the balls to tell the schoolyard bully that they are not giving up their lunch money, I would halp them to no end. But as long as they think inside the box I care not.

I can get you some info on this, if you are interested. Thing is, there are alot of people who cannot do it. It is not easy and you have to watch everything you sign for the rest of your life. Even getting a bank account in the US can screw you, there is something you must do, if not, you blow it. As a contractor if the city requires you to withhold city taxes from your employees checks, you can't take the job. Having a driver's license is also a big pain in the ass. Getting insurance and bonding is another headache.

Believe me, it is not for everybody.

But if you are in a position to do it, and are making say $200,000 a year, it literally puts $60,000 a year in your pocket. In a different position it is not worth it. If you work a regular job making regular money, get EIC and have dependents, fuck it. You might already be getting back more than you paid in. If this is the case, forget it.

As for the Browns, they should never have filed. I can tell you more about why, but I do not have all day.

Be well, and keep an open mind.

T




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