RE: White Dom/black sub....afraid of the "N" word.

RE: White Dom/black sub....afraid of the "N" word. (Full Version)

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ADom442 -> RE: White Dom/black sub....afraid of the "N" word. (1/6/2008 12:47:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail LOL, do white folk still smell like dog when they get wet? Ron Chappelle Hey, my ex's mother said we smell like chickens, not dogs when we get wet! ADom

SirJmes -> RE: White Dom/black sub....afraid of the "N" word. (1/6/2008 1:39:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: biracalsub4wmDom hiya! :) alright y'all, I have another question. i am black...well....1/2 black 1/2 white, but they say "if you have 1 drop.... you black." so...i'm black. lol and i prefer a White Dom. i also enjoy racial humilliation. actually, i enjoy it very much. but it seems like a lot of the Doms i talk to are scared of this. my question is why? i'm assuming it is because they don't want to come across as a racist. or maybe they have black family, and it is offensive to them. or maybe they are scared of what others will think if they enjoyed such a thing. i guess all of this could be true. i've been told by white doms that i should work on my self esteem....that i am disrespecting myself by thinking this way. in this lifestyle, you wouldn't tell a woman who loves to be called a slut & a whore that she needs to work on her self esteem. that would be considered HOT...right? so what is the difference? if you are a White Dom, and it is offensive to you, i am curious to find out why. is it a moral issue? is it a social issue? is it a matter of wanting to be seen as politically correct? is it something where you SAY it makes you uncomfortable, but if you were with someone who enjoyed it, you'd give it a try? just trying to pick your brains a bit. :) blessings.... I would have no problem with this. If my sub was black and had no limits on me calling her names as such then I would do so in private. In public is a dfferent story. I would not in public out of respect of other black people.

domahpet -> RE: White Dom/black sub....afraid of the "N" word. (1/6/2008 1:44:29 PM)
goodness what a thread brsub's post was very thought provoking for me. im mixed, but ive only had to deal with the "n" word once in my life, when i was 9 it was very taumatic for me and im glad i never had to deal with it again this subect is something that has never come up for me during play, or any other area of my life, since then. but it does deserve serious consideration. i comend you brsub, for dealing with some of these replies so graciously and eloquently! i wonder why some of the posters are having such intense reactions, my guess would be personal insecurity and the whole PC thing. my voice says fuck PC, ive never been a believer!

winterlight -> RE: White Dom/black sub....afraid of the "N" word. (1/6/2008 1:45:58 PM)
interesting post and nothing wrong with the ? I am not comfortable with any words that are demeaning no matter what your background is...

KnOcala -> RE: White Dom/black sub....afraid of the "N" word. (1/6/2008 1:58:56 PM)
I won't do it. I don't enjoy humiliation of any kind and never on race, religion or physical defects or size.

MasterSohun -> RE: White Dom/black sub....afraid of the "N" word. (1/7/2008 7:58:57 AM)
my question too you is this is that what you seek a white Dom if it is and you find one willing to Dom you and both of you are consenting players then more power to you both,it would not bother me to Dom a black woman,if that is what she seeks!

ShaktiSama -> RE: White Dom/black sub....afraid of the "N" word. (1/7/2008 8:32:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: biracalsub4wmDom hiya! :) alright y'all, I have another question. i am black...well....1/2 black 1/2 white, but they say "if you have 1 drop.... you black." so...i'm black. lol and i prefer a White Dom. i also enjoy racial humilliation. actually, i enjoy it very much. but it seems like a lot of the Doms i talk to are scared of this. I know a lot of people have already answered, and probably said this better. But speaking as someone who has been approached for raceplay...I just wanted to say why I personally hesitated, and had to talk it over carefully with an African-American submissive. Basically, the limits that a dominant sets in BDSM are sometimes different than those a submissives may set. Yes, sometimes it's just about things that don't turn you on or that you find unhygienic--subs are the same there. But at other times, submissives and dominants have different priorities. The submissives set limits primarily out of concern with their physical safety, or their psychological endurance and emotional health. In the end, it's all about how much punishment they can take without something spoiling the fun. A dominant's worries in BDSM are different. It isn't our bodies that break under the strain--it's our identities. It's not about spoiling the fun--it's about preserving a sense of what is wrong, and not fun. Every time we cross a limit, we do so by making something fun which we would normally believe was morally wrong...and ergo not who we are and not what we are about. Most of us have already struggled to overcome social training that told us it was wrong to make other people suffer by hitting them or teasing them or making them do housework naked. But there are usually some pillars of our moral universe that we do not want shaken. For a person who feels that racism is not only bad but actually evil, it is extremely difficult to direct a word like "nigger" at another human being as a game without feeling that some line is being crossed that should not be. Difficult as it may be to believe, some of us have gone an entire lifetime without calling a single human being by a racial slur--or even thinking in those terms. Much as we might want to please a lover, we don't want to feel that humiliating someone with a racial slur is sexy and fun. We want to maintain the gut feeling that it is deeply wrong to say those words and that you are a bad person to do so--'cause unless you're doing it in the bedroom to make a submissive wet or hard? You ARE a bad person! And you probably deserve a beating your own damn self. I realize it must seem goofy from your perspective. It's totally an emotional thing. But as a dominant you sometimes have to go with your gut, decide who you want to be, and hold the line there. You can't always be pushed past your limits by a submissive's desires. Just as an example, I have been approached more than once by men who wanted me to mutilate them sexually--but it ain't gonna happen, no matter how badly they want it or how much it turns them on. I'm not stepping across that line to become a REAL castrating bitch; it's just not who I am. I'm sure some people hesitate before they play with this particular fire as well.

Lordandmaster -> RE: White Dom/black sub....afraid of the "N" word. (1/7/2008 9:10:36 AM)
Of course it's up to every dominant to decide what he or she will and won't do. But I don't identify with the reasoning here. Words are not evil or racist or anything like that. PEOPLE are. After all, you can be very racist without ever using the N-word. People seem to forget that... Nor do words have any absolute meanings or connotations (despite what the dictionary-worshiping crowd on here wants to believe). What determines the meaning and connotations of a word is the context in which it is uttered and heard. If you have an understanding with another person, it's precisely this understanding that determines how a word will be interpreted. You're not turning yourself into a racist pig by using a word that would be horrible in a DIFFERENT context. We do that sort of modulation all the time. Do you think I call people on the street "bitch" and "cunt"? That would be hateful. quote: ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama For a person who feels that racism is not only bad but actually evil, it is extremely difficult to direct a word like "nigger" at another human being as a game without feeling that some line is being crossed that should not be. Difficult as it may be to believe, some of us have gone an entire lifetime without calling a single human being by a racial slur--or even thinking in those terms. Much as we might want to please a lover, we don't want to feel that humiliating someone with a racial slur is sexy and fun. We want to maintain the gut feeling that it is deeply wrong to say those words and that you are a bad person to do so--'cause unless you're doing it in the bedroom to make a submissive wet or hard?

ShaktiSama -> RE: White Dom/black sub....afraid of the "N" word. (1/7/2008 9:42:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Of course it's up to every dominant to decide what he or she will and won't do. But I don't identify with the reasoning here. Words are not evil or racist or anything like that. PEOPLE are. Words are tools. Some tools are designed to cause pain and suffering. Verbally, "nigger" is a lash. It has been traditionally used non-consensually by hateful human beings to create humiliation. I find it difficult to use the tools of such people or follow in their footsteps, even as a game. Some other dominants have similar problems, obviously, or this thread would not exist. If you don't--bully. This question would obviously not be one you could answer. As for your "words are not hateful" logic--I've never been fond of the "guns don't kill people" rhetoric about the innocence of a tool that does harm. I see no virtue in applying the same flawed argument to words. A gun is a tool--which is designed to kill. In much the same way that some words are designed to invoke hate. Like "bitch" and "cunt", which are verbal humiliation triggers of misogyny. Sorry you find that difficult to follow. I'm explaining my own feelings as a dominant: men are not the only ones who are asked to perform in raceplay. YMMV and all that.

Lordandmaster -> RE: White Dom/black sub....afraid of the "N" word. (1/7/2008 10:57:54 AM)
Yanno...the fact that someone doesn't agree with your reasoning doesn't mean he finds it "difficult to follow." I follow your reasoning. Your reasoning is not particularly difficult to follow. Where's all your hostility coming from? Anyway, your analogy with guns doesn't work; in fact, it shows exactly what's wrong with reifying words. Guns have no purpose other than to cause bodily harm. Guns are designed to cause bodily harm regardless of the context. Words can have any purpose whatsoever, and their meaning changes profoundly from one context to the next. At any rate...feel free not to engage in race play. Most people don't like it, and no one is forcing you to accept it. quote: ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama As for your "words are not hateful" logic--I've never been fond of the "guns don't kill people" rhetoric about the innocence of a tool that does harm. I see no virtue in applying the same flawed argument to words. A gun is a tool--which is designed to kill. In much the same way that some words are designed to invoke hate. Like "bitch" and "cunt", which are verbal humiliation triggers of misogyny. Sorry you find that difficult to follow. I'm explaining my own feelings as a dominant: men are not the only ones who are asked to perform in raceplay. YMMV and all that.

ShaktiSama -> RE: White Dom/black sub....afraid of the "N" word. (1/7/2008 11:20:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Yanno... sigh Whatever. It would be easier to believe that you follow someone's reasoning...if you could follow their reasoning. Clearly I was not and have never been speaking for you. Nor have I ever said anyone was "forcing" me to do anything. My post was written to explain why raceplay would cause some people (those who share my gut feelings on the matter) a few problems, and why they might hesitate as described in the OP. My analogy works as intended. And yes, it continues to work even if you describe it using your Word of the Week, "Reify": definition being "to regard an abstract as a concrete thing". (Taken from Latin res, rei, if you care--"a thing, an affair, a business, a gesture.") Your use of the word reify in this instance is a poor choice. A metaphor which compares two similar things is not reifying an abstract: it's simply an analogy which identifies the similarity. In this case, the similarity between a word and an object can be easily proven. If the word "nigger" did not have similar power to harm that a flogger does, it would not have the power to excite a submissive in a BDSM scene. It is because the word hurts, and is designed to hurt and humiliate, that it satisfies a masochistic need. Words can sometimes cause more lasting and significant damage than physical objects, and they deserve to be regarded as dangerous. Playing with them thoughtlessly or carelessly does not make you anyone's friend. Speaking of which, I will now take my toys and go home before someone gets hurt. [:D]

willing2try1984 -> RE: White Dom/black sub....afraid of the "N" word. (1/8/2008 10:43:48 PM)
I have never asked for the "n" word to be used, but i have requested to be called a black whore/ or daddy's lil black slut etc. there is nothing wrong with that - its a turn on, and my daddy would oblige if asked because i like it. oh well i guess to each his own

KyttynTheMynx -> RE: White Dom/black sub....afraid of the "N" word. (1/8/2008 11:14:00 PM)
This actually was one of the better posts I have seen the last few days. Very thought provoking... I see it this way. If I wanted to be called every racial slur for every heritage that I have running through my veins, thats MY RIGHT, and if I tell Domly McDom that he is welcome to use these names at the appropriate time, so be it. I've been called the N word, and it makes me laugh (I wont explain here). Letting people know it bothers you in a bad way gives them the power to piss in your Cheerios. So, to those of you who got your panties in a wad, pull the wad out, and go pretend that you never read what the OP posted here. To those of you who gave her encouragement, and applauded her for posting a hot button subject, AND handling it with style and grace, props to yall! kyttyn.

Evility -> RE: White Dom/black sub....afraid of the "N" word. (1/9/2008 4:07:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama In much the same way that some words are designed to invoke hate. Like "bitch" and "cunt", which are verbal humiliation triggers of misogyny. Yet many women become dripping wet when they hear those very words whispered in their ear during moments of intimacy. The same women would be outraged to be called such at the office. It's a matter of context and consent. Your logic of absolutes just does not hold water. The whole racial humiliation thing isn't my thing and I wouldn't be interested in it but if I tried to support that stand with your logic I'd self-outlaw most of what I do and say in a bdsm context.

wideeyedyoungun -> RE: White Dom/black sub....afraid of the "N" word. (1/26/2008 11:30:19 PM)
I think I can relate to you on some level, given that I am also a black woman who prefers white male dominants. I'm also very interested in race play, but haven't had any experience with it beyond what goes on with me, my vibrator, and my vivid imagination. I'm 21 and relatively inexperienced in the scene, but here have been my experiences thus far (both BDSM-related and vanilla): -I was dating one guy (Jewish) who was interested in BDSM play, but like me, was pretty inexperienced. When I brought up my interested in him saying things like, "take that big, white cock," referencing my blackness, etc. during sex, he was cool with it. Shocked the hell out of me, because he was the archetype of the politically correct, sensitive, New Age guy. -Another guy (also Jewish) was very, very turned on when I referred to him fucking my black pussy, but never initiated any other race play, or took it any further when I initiated it. -Third guy (white) said in the middle of sex that he enjoyed my "big brown ass". When I later brought up his comment in the context of race play, he was entirely unwilling to take it any further than making casual, non-racially charged observations about my skin color. I should note that the first guy - the one who seemed most comfortable with race play - was the one with NO previous experience dating a black woman. I'm being purely speculative here, but in the case of the other two guys, I believe the black women they had dated heavily colored their views about what is/is not okay to say to a black person. Even though I enjoy the prospect of race play with a white dom, I don't think I'd get any charge, positive or negative, from being called "nigger". I'd definitely be wiling to explore it, but am not interested enough to take on the potential backlash from my partner if I were to straight-up ask him for it. But at the same time, it would weird me out if he were the one to ask if he could call me a "nigger" - as if he's trying to act out some ghettogaggers{.}com-esque type of fantasy that's been brewing in his loins.

antipode -> RE: White Dom/black sub....afraid of the "N" word. (1/27/2008 7:45:20 AM)
I would think most real doms would jump at the opportunity. You may have run into "unreal" doms, who are just cybering, or doms who are trying to politely bow out for other reasons, like your being a "BBW", whatever that is.

Justme696 -> RE: White Dom/black sub....afraid of the "N" word. (1/27/2008 8:30:52 AM)
I wonder if we should feel bad, when you see colloured people call eachother N* all the time. But for respect...yes..it feels weird.

SimplySubmissive -> RE: White Dom/black sub....afraid of the "N" word. (1/27/2008 9:45:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Justme696 I wonder if we should feel bad, when you see colloured people call eachother N* all the time. But for respect...yes..it feels weird. What's up with that? Does that make me colorless? Anyway, to answer the question.. In my opinion, either a word is offensive, or it's not. I saw Arsenio on Leno the other night, and he was saying some stuff, and Leno said, "I'm glad it's you saying those things, and not me.. it's ok if you say them" Why is this? There are lots of double standards out there, and I understand the need originally but now it's time to stop. I'm thinking of things like Ebony, Jet magazines, organizations specifically for certain ethnic groups.. It's ok to be proud of your race/ethnicity and celebrate those things that are great about yourself because of your heritage, unless you happen to be European-American. What if there was a white mayor's association? I just don't think any of these things that use race as a qualifier should still be necessary.

Justme696 -> RE: White Dom/black sub....afraid of the "N" word. (1/27/2008 9:49:10 AM)
quote: What's up with that? Does that make me colorless? quote: ORIGINAL: SimplySubmissive quote: ORIGINAL: Justme696 I wonder if we should feel bad, when you see colloured people call eachother N* all the time. But for respect...yes..it feels weird. What's up with that? Does that make me colorless? No clue, tried to formulate it in my best english possible. Tell me what is wrong with it and I adjust it. English is not my mother tongue.

SimplySubmissive -> RE: White Dom/black sub....afraid of the "N" word. (1/27/2008 9:57:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Justme696 quote: What's up with that? Does that make me colorless? quote: ORIGINAL: SimplySubmissive quote: ORIGINAL: Justme696 I wonder if we should feel bad, when you see colloured people call eachother N* all the time. But for respect...yes..it feels weird. What's up with that? Does that make me colorless? No clue, tried to formulate it in my best english possible. Tell me what is wrong with it and I adjust it. English is not my mother tongue. I didn't know that, sorry.. Intersting, kinda is relevant too, it was once used for black people, then was considered offensive. (maybe always was?)I just hadn't heard it used seriously for a long time. You can see it used in old books and maybe movies. You can see it on old signs in black and white news footage from the 60's.

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