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Is the mainstream *this* conservative? Dr. Phil blows m... - 7/27/2005 4:28:24 PM   
AAkasha


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I had never seen Dr. Phil but knew who he was based on various parodies and a few news articles. Yesterday I caught a glimpse of him talking to a couple where the woman thought her fiance had a porn addiction and wanted him to give up porn before she would marry him. How much time did he invest in his porn addiction? 3 or 4 hours a week. Granted, there are some people with a serious porn addiction, but a few hours a week (for a young guy) doesn't sound outrageous to me -- especially if it did not affect their time together, their sexual relations, etc.

But today I saw a clip of him telling a couple that having a threesome would ruin their marriage. What amused me though is when he was telling them how to "spice things up" in the bedroom as an alternative he suggested WILD ideas like -- "dressing up as a fireman and her as a french maid" and....(drumroll) "Have sex in different rooms of the house."

If that's as alternative an edgy this hugely popular advice-guy can give, what does that say about how conservative the mainstream is? I mean, that's *really* conservative. I wonder what he'd say about our lighter play -- like spanking, light playful bondage, etc?

There are lots of threads started about how BDSM is becoming more mainstream or acceptable. If this show is any representation, that's a LONG time away -- if ever.

Akasha

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RE: Is the mainstream *this* conservative? Dr. Phil blo... - 7/27/2005 4:54:46 PM   
dominmd


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Status: offline 		He is an ass. And he must be very vanilla. I will not go back to vanilla sex again. It is, in a word BORING. Porn to me is no big thing. It may consume a total of about 3 hours per week. And that is mostly pictures of interesting things. Especially bondage.

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RE: Is the mainstream *this* conservative? Dr. Phil blo... - 7/27/2005 6:25:17 PM   
happypervert


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From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline 		I'm not sure it has anything to do with people being conservative. I think a lot of folks lack imagination and/or feel inhibited about doing something as "spicy" as humping in some room besides the bedroom. Funny, but I also recall The Daily Show painting Dr. Phil as a perv by showing snips of some interviews he did where he was either suggesting or asking about spankings.

So anyway, I think Dr. Phil might be trying to "stimulate" his audience to broaden their thinking. Not that I'm a fan of his or anything 'cuz I'm not a viewer. But I'm trying to distinguish what he's doing to the pandering to bad instincts of the audience by that bitch Dr. Laura.

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RE: Is the mainstream *this* conservative? Dr. Phil blo... - 7/27/2005 6:28:18 PM   
stormsfate


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Status: offline 		Oh I love Dr. Phil....lol. Disagree with about 90% of his recommendations, but there's just something about him that I like



f

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RE: Is the mainstream *this* conservative? Dr. Phil blo... - 7/27/2005 6:30:41 PM   
siamsa24


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Status: offline 		If I remember correctly, "Dr." Phil got his degree from a mail order and it is questionable what it is actually in. That is hardly the point, but know that not everyone that is pursuing a degree in sociology, psychology or social work is taught about BDSM in a more favorable light. I took a class about sexuality and we spent almost two weeks on BDSM and fetishes. Not a long time, but longer then the time we spent on traditional relationships. It depends on the professor, but I know that my professor was not married and admited to still being a virgin and not interested in having sex. Even though he did not like sex, he did not portray any kind of sex as being bad or wrong.

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RE: Is the mainstream *this* conservative? Dr. Phil blo... - 7/27/2005 6:40:32 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


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Status: offline 		In the area of Dr. Phil I generally appreciate his perspective, however when it comes to sexuality he really is too conservative and closed off, although I do think his advice rings true for most people, to universalize it is never good.

But never fear, for every Dr. Phil there's a Mr and Mrs Smith with fetish. Mainstream is a lot more than one tv show, it's handcuff bracelets in a chain that markets to tweens, articles with "bondage role play" in Cosmo and vinyl in primetime MTV.

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RE: Is the mainstream *this* conservative? Dr. Phil blo... - 7/27/2005 8:12:57 PM   
quietkitten


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Status: offline 		I have a huge problem with ultra conservative people, particularly when they force their opinions on others.
I dislike "Dr." Phil on so many levels... but then again I really dislike anyone who feels they are always correct, and their opinion is the only right one.
On this note, I watched a truly disturbing news show today. It reported the religious attempts at "fixing" people who are gay by force feeding them quotations from the bible in a camp atmosphere. I realize that I sound incredibly intolerant myself, but this kind of thing just makes me so mad. It reminded me so much of the kind of ideals that "Dr." Phil spews forth.
Everyone is entitled to beleive what they like, and if someone goes asking for advice from someone like "Dr." Phil then they can expect to hear his unadulterated opinion, however.. when advice is unsolicited (as it frquently is with so-called conservatives) it becomes abuse.

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RE: Is the mainstream *this* conservative? Dr. Phil blo... - 7/27/2005 10:09:08 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


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Status: offline 		I like Dr Phil because I think the world sometimes needs a psychologist who says "cut the shit, let's call BS what it is, be responsible for your life, and your decisions!" Other times problems are more complex and require more extensive counseling/medication, and I don't think he discounts that.

On the other hand, I do believe he is on the conservative side, as is the mainstream (at least overtly); I believe A LOT of people are going around cheating, lying, and doing crazy s*** behind loved ones' backs, because everyone wants to be ultra uptight and "respectable" in public. Men don't admit to doing A, women don't admit to doing B, yet porn industry and fetish stores are staying in business, and probably doing well.
quote:

I caught a glimpse of him talking to a couple where the woman thought her fiance had a porn addiction and wanted him to give up porn before she would marry him. How much time did he invest in his porn addiction? 3 or 4 hours a week. Granted, there are some people with a serious porn addiction, but a few hours a week (for a young guy) doesn't sound outrageous to me -- especially if it did not affect their time together, their sexual relations, etc.

A lot of women take serious offense to their husbands getting into porn because they feel it's a reflection of what they lack; a tad narcissistic I suppose, but they feel that way, and it presents a problem; Dr Phil's advice was good in that it dealt with an issue two people were having difficulty overcoming (he loves it, she hates it). In essense, it was affecting their time together, and they were fighting about it.
In my humble opinion WIITWD is kool because it already allows for open conversations about the fact that there is (or Not) going to be sex, and how it will be manifested between the parties involved. M

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RE: Is the mainstream *this* conservative? Dr. Phil blo... - 7/27/2005 10:16:56 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


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Status: offline 		Women and security when it comes to sexuality...yeesh a huge subject on its own. Can't count the number of times I get scorned for loving masturbation...cuz you know if I had a REAL good sex life, I wouldn't need it and neither would my partners. Sheesh.

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RE: Is the mainstream *this* conservative? Dr. Phil blo... - 7/27/2005 10:36:16 PM   
AAkasha


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

Women and security when it comes to sexuality...yeesh a huge subject on its own. Can't count the number of times I get scorned for loving masturbation...cuz you know if I had a REAL good sex life, I wouldn't need it and neither would my partners. Sheesh.


I thought that the mainstream had pretty much accepted that men do masturbate (often regularly) and view porn when they do quite often, and that it was also ok for women to masturbate, and even a good thing if it helps her identify what was pleasurable so she could be more sexually self aware. I just thought this was sort of the generally accepted POV -- none of my peers would find anything odd or offensive in those statements or observations, even the most conservative people I'm aware of. Is it so vastly different in more conservative areas of the US? (I am in Southern California).

It was odd to me that Dr. Phil didn't even try to determine if the man in the relationship was excessive in his masturbation, neglecting his fiance, or doing anything unhealthy. Her ultimatum was that the fiance must STOP LOOKING AT PORN. Dr. Phil didn't question what her insecurities might be, what her issues might be with it and why it was a problem for her. He never even said, "Men DO masturbate." That boggled my mind.

On that same show he had a couple on there where the guy had a hair fetish. It was excessive -- to the point that he was with 100 hookers and lost a marriage because of it. He liked to go to the salon with his wife, he did his own hair with curlers and creams, and it was like an all-day thing practically. Ok, sure, that's a problem, and fairly obvious -- if any fetish or sexuality impairs your social life and relationships to such an extreme level it's pretty much a no-brainer. Dr. Phil seemed to think that this man's fetish was simply a way to avoid INTIMACY with his wife; that "hair" was a non emotional, non thinking, non -interactive thing to become obsessed with so it posed no threat. That left me scratching my head a little; so if the guy learned to be more communicative, more intimate, more vulnerable to his wife, the hair fetish would go away? That seems like a long shot.

I'd never heard of a fetish being identified as a way to avoid intimacy or relationships. Has anyone else?

Akasha

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RE: Is the mainstream *this* conservative? Dr. Phil blo... - 7/27/2005 10:42:59 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

I'd never heard of a fetish being identified as a way to avoid intimacy or relationships. Has anyone else?

Akasha

True fetishes are usually born young and spontaneously, an attachment to an object/thing that a person NEEDS in order to become sexually aroused and/or orgasm.

I'd imagine hard core fetishes cause some people to have PROBLEMS in intimacy and thus avoid it or have a stunted growth because of it, obviously sometimes going to unhealthy extremes and lead to unhappy and unhealthy sex and relationship life. But I don't think it's the fetish itself which causes it or is used as a way to do so.

I think it's how the person handles the fetish that makes the difference.

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RE: Is the mainstream *this* conservative? Dr. Phil blo... - 7/27/2005 10:51:11 PM   
AAkasha


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2


quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

I'd never heard of a fetish being identified as a way to avoid intimacy or relationships. Has anyone else?

Akasha

True fetishes are usually born young and spontaneously, an attachment to an object/thing that a person NEEDS in order to become sexually aroused and/or orgasm.

I'd imagine hard core fetishes cause some people to have PROBLEMS in intimacy and thus avoid it or have a stunted growth because of it, obviously sometimes going to unhealthy extremes and lead to unhappy and unhealthy sex and relationship life. But I don't think it's the fetish itself which causes it or is used as a way to do so.

I think it's how the person handles the fetish that makes the difference.


Your definition of true fetishes is how I understand it also, and I agree with your observation of how it would create intimacy problems. But keeping that in mind, "forcing" the fetishist to learn to deal with intimacy wouldn't "undo" the fetish, would it? I don't see how that is possible. If a fetish is so strongly programmed by reinforcement that the person cannot get aroused or have orgasm in the absence of it, changing the person's relationship dynamics shouldn't impact the fetish one way or another.

It's an interesting thing anyway. I have never read or heard of a method of psychology or psychiatry that "removes" or tones down a fetish so extreme that is causes sexual dysfunction. Do doctors use drugs to curb it, and does it work? Is it somehow related to obsessive-compulsive disorders in some way?

Akasha

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RE: Is the mainstream *this* conservative? Dr. Phil blo... - 7/27/2005 11:03:46 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

It's an interesting thing anyway. I have never read or heard of a method of psychology or psychiatry that "removes" or tones down a fetish so extreme that is causes sexual dysfunction. Do doctors use drugs to curb it, and does it work? Is it somehow related to obsessive-compulsive disorders in some way?

Akasha

It's not technically OCD- it's not about trying to control, it's not a response to anxiety, and it's not an obsessive/compulsive response to something. Fetishists aren't obsessed about the object, they just like sex as much as anyone else. It just so happens that they need some object to perform and enjoy sex. Their sexual connection isn't used to try and control or reduce anxiety, it's just a patterned necessary response. It's a pretty confined sexual connection.

Course it gets confusing when fetishists DO have OCD too, which is certainly possible. OCD is a multi-spectrum disorder (which I have moderately), but generally unrelated to fetishes. Therapy would probably be very similar for the two, though focusing a lot more on anxiety reduction for OCD and increasing associations for fetishists.

Cognitive behavioral therapy can be used to not only help the person understand how their fetish is affecting functioning in overall life, give them better life skills overall to cope, and try to associate sexuality with "normal" responses to offer a variety and try and broaden the one and only sexual response that fetishes limit people to.

But ultimately, I don't think a fetish can ever simply be broken or disappeared completely, simply handled better.

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RE: Is the mainstream *this* conservative? Dr. Phil blo... - 7/28/2005 5:20:03 AM   
tinkJH


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha


I had never seen Dr. Phil but knew who he was based on various parodies and a few news articles. Yesterday I caught a glimpse of him talking to a couple where the woman thought her fiance had a porn addiction and wanted him to give up porn before she would marry him. How much time did he invest in his porn addiction? 3 or 4 hours a week. Granted, there are some people with a serious porn addiction, but a few hours a week (for a young guy) doesn't sound outrageous to me -- especially if it did not affect their time together, their sexual relations, etc.

But today I saw a clip of him telling a couple that having a threesome would ruin their marriage. What amused me though is when he was telling them how to "spice things up" in the bedroom as an alternative he suggested WILD ideas like -- "dressing up as a fireman and her as a french maid" and....(drumroll) "Have sex in different rooms of the house."

If that's as alternative an edgy this hugely popular advice-guy can give, what does that say about how conservative the mainstream is? I mean, that's *really* conservative. I wonder what he'd say about our lighter play -- like spanking, light playful bondage, etc?

There are lots of threads started about how BDSM is becoming more mainstream or acceptable. If this show is any representation, that's a LONG time away -- if ever.

Akasha






Well, I have no opinion on the porn thing. That really falls to the issue that the woman had, not the potential husband. But, I sometimes watch DR Phil, I don't like him, his views on co sleeping and extended nursing irritate the mommy in me. But, when he comes to things like "Views on spicing up the sex life" you have to remember his show is on primetime TV. There is a limit of things he can say, show, do. That and if he DID end up saying the wrong thing, he and the network could get sued. In the case where one spouse wanted a three some, and the other didnt - that would do nothing for their marriage. I've had a relationship fall apart because he wanted to try a three some. I tried, I liked.. but.. after he wanted to form a poly thing and I just couldnt do it. I tried, I did give it an effort. But I simply couldnt do it. Also, some guys might view that as "approval" to cheat on their wife. or vice versa. If he ended up telling someone Sure, have a threesome! or to go ahead and get some cuffs and a blindfold - and something went wrong (because after all, natural selection has become a very old, very tired man) people would turn around and bring lawsuits against him because "He told my husband to have a threesome and then he started cheating on me and caught (STD) and gave that (STD) to me."

But, if ya want bondage on a talk show... there is always Jerry.

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RE: Is the mainstream *this* conservative? Dr. Phil blo... - 7/28/2005 12:20:22 PM   
LRODANDMASTER


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Status: offline 		WELL THEY HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFULL ABOUT WHAT THEY CAN RECOMMEND ON TV LIKE A BLOWJOB OR SOMETHING IS TECNICALLY SADDAMY. SO DR PHIL HAS TO LIMIT HISSELF TO LEGAL SEX IN DIFERENT POSITONS AND ROOMS OTHERWISE THEY MITE CENSURE HIS SHOW

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RE: Is the mainstream *this* conservative? Dr. Phil blo... - 7/28/2005 8:50:08 PM   
proudsub


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Status: offline 		I think Dr. Phil may be limited in what he can say on TV, especially since a lot of kids watch the show. He can't exactly recomend bondage and flogging to spice up a marriage on TV at 3:00 in the afternoon. JMHO

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RE: Is the mainstream *this* conservative? Dr. Phil blo... - 7/28/2005 8:57:05 PM   
Lordandmaster


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RE: Is the mainstream *this* conservative? Dr. Phil blo... - 7/28/2005 9:38:58 PM   
perverseangelic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: proudsub

I think Dr. Phil may be limited in what he can say on TV, especially since a lot of kids watch the show. He can't exactly recomend bondage and flogging to spice up a marriage on TV at 3:00 in the afternoon. JMHO


Why not? it isn't sex. I do NOT get American's puririent-o-meter it keys in on odd things.

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RE: Is the mainstream *this* conservative? Dr. Phil blo... - 7/28/2005 10:14:41 PM   
onceburned


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From: Iowa
Status: offline 		I agree that Americans have an attraction/repulsion thing when it comes to sex on TV. But since the television is the baby sitter for so many kids during the daytime after school, when parents are often at work.... the fear part takes over.

"OMG what are they exposing my kids too! (and I can't watch it, either)."

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RE: Is the mainstream *this* conservative? Dr. Phil blo... - 7/28/2005 10:21:45 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: onceburned

I agree that Americans have an attraction/repulsion thing when it comes to sex on TV. But since the television is the baby sitter for so many kids during the daytime after school, when parents are often at work.... the fear part takes over.

"OMG what are they exposing my kids too! (and I can't watch it, either)."

I find it most amusing when KINKY people react the same way (and they do). The concept that THEIR kids might have an interest or be exposed to it is horrific. And I don't mean in the "I saw moms closet and now mom is going to have custody issues" sense.

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