Teaching your Dominant?

Teaching your Dominant? (Full Version)

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Amena -> Teaching your Dominant? (10/11/2007 4:26:53 PM)
Yesterday I had a conversation about slavery with the Dom I was with for a year and a half. We've been talking again the last few days, and though we have had discussions of this many times before, he seems to be willing to really hear me now and has agreed we need to find common ground if we hope to make a relationship work. Lets just say we have vastly different opinions on what a slave is. He feels a slave basically is someone with no will of her own, doesn't think for herself, lives in a cage, mindlessly does what she is told, yada, yada, yada. He said he could never take me as his slave because I am too much of an independent thinker, and that to be a slave would mean I would have to change the things about me he loves like how I challenge him and talk with him and how I handle things in daily life. His beliefs crushed me. I have always believed (and I know everyone has differing beliefs, this is just mine, but it is an innate part of me) that a submissive has to earn the privilege of being a slave, and that she does so by being the best she can possibly be and by serving her Master to the absolute best of her abilities. To be told he would never consider me for his slave felt like I had utterly failed. Yesterday, I think he finally listened to me enough that he understood how deeply I had been hurt by his determination that I was "too good" to be a slave. No matter how I tried to rationalize it, I could not change the way I felt. I worked so hard, dreamed and longed for over a year, because slavery was put on the table as the goal when we first met, and he had not communicated to me that he had changed his mind when he started falling in love with me. Maybe it is silly of me to want it so badly, but I do. Anyway, he said yesterday that if he went by my definition, then I easily have earned the right to be his slave, but that I will have to teach him what it means because he has never come across a slave who had a will of her own to surrender. I'm feeling a little strange about this prospect. I'm not sure in my own mind that he really wants this or is just trying to appease me. I'm more than a little afraid I am being set up for failure. His opinions are so strong, and he is adamant he has never come across a strong (as in being intelligent and being able to think for herself and not needing micromanagement) slave before and doesn't know how it will work. He thinks of slaves as property you have to take care of just like a car, not like a relationship. I don't know if I'm explaining that in a way that makes any sense at all, but it's the best I can do right now. Has anyone ever been in a situation like this? If so, what did you do and how did it work? To the Masters out there, how would you want to be "taught" about this kind of slavery? Do you think it is even possible for this to work in the long run or am I getting into an impossible situation?

Tigrita -> RE: Teaching your Dominant? (10/11/2007 4:56:09 PM)
I hate to steal LinkeyAlbatros's thuder, but this was a great thread a little while ago on this kind of topic. Maybe have him look it over to see different perceptions of a slave. It sounds like he loves you very much and wants you in his life; and you identify very much as a slave, so the only issue is labels. It would be very sad if something so superficial kept it from working. I think you guys will figure out a way to relate to eachother that will reflect your D/s and romantic feelings. http://www.collarchat.com/m_1316702/mpage_1/key_strong%252Cslave/tm.htm#1316702

kitttty -> RE: Teaching your Dominant? (10/11/2007 5:01:37 PM)
My Dom and i also differ somewhat on what a slave is. i am not his slave though. we are considering whether or not i should change from being a submissive to a slave. i am not a slave now but my Dom does have total control over my career decisions, financial decisions and general personal life. if i were a slave he would expect more of me and it would be a pretty high maintainance relationship, but if he wants that, he is entitled to it. It's his decision, as always.

Amena -> RE: Teaching your Dominant? (10/11/2007 5:07:48 PM)
Thank you for the link. I, too, would love to be able to work things out with him, which is why I am again talking with him. This is far deeper than just labels, though. It is how he interacts with me. Being at his feet, serving him in almost any way, in the play room, they have all been affected and changed since he fell in love with me. Some may say those are little trivial things, but to me they are some of the most precious and happiest moments for me, and to have all those things taken from me feels like he doesn't accept me for who I am. I still hope to hear ideas and opinions on just how I can teach him these things.

Amena -> RE: Teaching your Dominant? (10/11/2007 5:13:16 PM)
I have wondered, too, if I am not submitting to him by adapting to the way he views things. I have really searched my heart about it long and hard before I ended things before. This is important to me, however. I feel like I would be denying a big part of who I am if I have to change my beliefs about what a slave is, and we all know what happens when needs are not met in the long run. I love him. I do. To even consider giving up what I have wanted for so long is a testament to how much I care for him. Ultimately, though, I am afraid it would breed resentment and other problems because of how I feel about it. To be denied that which was originally a goal feels like I failed and am being punished, and I don't know how to change that outlook.

marieToo -> RE: Teaching your Dominant? (10/11/2007 5:20:08 PM)
Hmmm....This is just a suggestion... Instead of fixating on each others' beliefs of what a slave is and being hung up on the label, why not discuss with him what you would like to be different in the relationship and see if he's down with making those changes.

Tigrita -> RE: Teaching your Dominant? (10/11/2007 5:24:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Amena I have wondered, too, if I am not submitting to him by adapting to the way he views things. I have really searched my heart about it long and hard before I ended things before. This is important to me, however. I feel like I would be denying a big part of who I am if I have to change my beliefs about what a slave is, and we all know what happens when needs are not met in the long run. I love him. I do. To even consider giving up what I have wanted for so long is a testament to how much I care for him. Ultimately, though, I am afraid it would breed resentment and other problems because of how I feel about it. To be denied that which was originally a goal feels like I failed and am being punished, and I don't know how to change that outlook. Dude, you said everything just as well as I could have said it. A relationship, even (or especially) a D/s or M/s one should embrace who you are. If you guys aren't compatible... could be that the best way to love is to let go. It sounds like you are a very good communicator. That is a great place to start. I don't know you guys but I wish you the best of luck and happiness whether your paths lead to eachother, or away.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Teaching your Dominant? (10/11/2007 5:36:09 PM)
You've both trapped yourselves with ideas of what "a slave" is. I think they are both silly irrational sucky ideas. But you either stick with what you feel is best and live your life accordingly, or you decide they no longer work for you and find definitions which do. But you are both trapping yourselves- and you both are the only ones who can set you free.

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Teaching your Dominant? (10/11/2007 5:43:29 PM)
If he's never met a slave who has a mind of their own, he's not been out in a wide enough community, in my opinion. Come to some of the Master/slave national events and learn together. You'll get support and he'll, hopefully, be enlightened. Southwest Leather Conference Jan, Phoenix South Plains Leather Fest Feb, Dallas Southeast Leather Fest June, Atlanta Master/slave Conference July, DC Great Lakes Leather Alliance August, Indianapolis There's also a new Northwest conference, but I don't know the info. Master Fire

DominaSmartass -> RE: Teaching your Dominant? (10/11/2007 7:44:10 PM)
LA says: quote: ou've both trapped yourselves with ideas of what "a slave" is. I think they are both silly irrational sucky ideas. I just have to admire her brutal honest ;) Then there's Master Fire, who is oh-so-wise. quote: ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam If he's never met a slave who has a mind of their own, he's not been out in a wide enough community, in my opinion. Come to some of the Master/slave national events and learn together. You'll get support and he'll, hopefully, be enlightened. Southwest Leather Conference Jan, Phoenix South Plains Leather Fest Feb, Dallas Southeast Leather Fest June, Atlanta Master/slave Conference July, DC Great Lakes Leather Alliance August, Indianapolis There's also a new Northwest conference, but I don't know the info. I HAVE to mention that of course Florida Fetish Weekend is coming up and also has plenty of M/s exposure in addition to Daddy/boy and much, much more. (www.flweekend.com) Anyway, I have to also throw in my 2 cents on this matter. I personally don't know any slaves that would fit the description offered up by your prospective master. That doesn't mean they don't exist, and I think Daddysprop247 is along those lines and if she stumbles onto this thread I'm sure she'll be happy to elaborate. But for the most part, every slave I know is a decidely strong, loud, in charge, control-freak, etc. of a woman. I am referring specifically to female slaves because the males I know whom I'd actually consider slaves are quite different. But that's a whole other thread. I don't know any meek timid female slaves, most of the ones I know are successful in their careers and smart and their masters consider these traits positive attributes. Now, I think the real issue might be that he found himself falling in love, as you mentioned, and his behavior changed. This is a HUGE issue in and of itself as there is a great debate amongst Master/slave practitioners over whether it's even possible to maintain an M/s relationship with romantic love. Many believe it's not; many believe it is. You both would certainly benefit from attending meetings of Masters and slaves together (MAsT) if you have a local chapter. And of course, attending a weekend long event that has an M/s or D/s relationship focus would be even better. I wish you both the best of luck and it does sound like he's willing to learn so why not teach him? I know inexperienced dominants who learn from experienced submissives all the time. Myself included.

Amena -> RE: Teaching your Dominant? (10/11/2007 8:07:05 PM)
I think attending a meeting or event together is a wonderful idea! Thanks to you for mentioning it.

kitttty -> RE: Teaching your Dominant? (10/11/2007 9:28:12 PM)
Seriously though? It is the norm for female submissives to be successful put together people outside the bedroom? I am passive and completely dysfunctional without my Master. I was throwing my life away for no reason before him.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Teaching your Dominant? (10/11/2007 9:57:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kitttty Seriously though? It is the norm for female submissives to be successful put together people outside the bedroom? LOL it's not the norm for HUMANS to be successful put together people ANYWHERE. Most of us are really just barely getting by in a lot of ways. Subs are like anyone else- some are stable, secure, mature, some are complete messes. quote: I am passive and completely dysfunctional without my Master. I was throwing my life away for no reason before him. Why do you distinguish between in the bedroom and outside the bedroom though? Many PEOPLE are lost without their partner- vanilla, dom, sub, whatever. As long as you don't take on any responsibilities (like kids) which would require you to be a stable responsible adult in the case of your master leaving or dying, then there's no problem. Or you can learn to be a FAIRLY stable and responsible adult with the guidance of your master so that if something happens, you can at least carry on well enough so that the responsibilities you have taken on won't suffer.

Stephann -> RE: Teaching your Dominant? (10/13/2007 5:21:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross You've both trapped yourselves with ideas of what "a slave" is. I think they are both silly irrational sucky ideas. But you either stick with what you feel is best and live your life accordingly, or you decide they no longer work for you and find definitions which do. But you are both trapping yourselves- and you both are the only ones who can set you free. Hiya LA, See, I can't agree with this. Obviously not everyone requires the same sort of structured relationships that you'll find in M/s, but for those who do simply saying "well, you're drawing the lines wrong" isn't much of a solution. *quote:* I have always believed (and I know everyone has differing beliefs, this is just mine, but it is an innate part of me) that a submissive has to earn the privilege of being a slave, and that she does so by being the best she can possibly be and by serving her Master to the absolute best of her abilities. To be told he would never consider me for his slave felt like I had utterly failed. What you're finding to be "I've been told a slave is X" could very well be "I believe a slave should be X, and this is the bar I set for myself in my relationships." It's great to objectively consider how a relationship should be, just like looking at blueprints for a house; but a house still needs three or more walls, a roof, a floor, and a way in and out of the fucker. If she's saying she needs a two story house because there's not enough land for all the rooms, telling her to build on the neighbors plot just won't work. Amena, It sounds like you really enjoy and care for this man. It sounds like this man isn't likely to give you the M/s relationship you crave. Not every man is wired to enjoy M/s as a loving and long term committment between two people. Sad to say (and this may very well offend, but in no way is this my intent) it's a bit like a prostitute falling in love with a regular john, and hoping he'll give her a wedding ring. The client isn't there for a wife; he's there to get his fix. To boot, a john falling in love with a prostitute isn't likely to go back to her again. Again, not all men are this way; but enough are that it's hard to know. There are lots of fish in the sea. What seems like the 'perfect' for you, doesn't mean there aren't others who are perfect. Get out there, and meet others! Regards, Stephan

MadRabbit -> RE: Teaching your Dominant? (10/13/2007 5:40:13 AM)
In my opinion, he needs to learn to think outside of the box and I am sure the rest will come in time. My ideal slave has nothing to do with a prescripted persona or in the characterstics of a certain individual, but lies within the behaviors I want her to engage in and the rules and structure that define my relationship. Instead of thinking of it like a "idealilized person", it might be better to approach it from the perspective that the concept of a "slave" is like having a job. A cook is a cook because they cook food. A doctor is a docotor because they help people. A slave is a slave because they serve and obey. A huge variety of different kinds of people are cooks and doctors just like a huge variety of people are slaves. They might have to change some of their behaviors and learn new skills when taking on the job, but I have yet to meet anyone who has had to do a complete personality revamp and transcend into someone who acts like a Doctor as seen on TV to be a successful doctor. Of couse, certain talents and personality traits do tend to help someone do certain jobs well. His perspective of a slave seems to lie within the fantasy notion. The slave like the Doctor thats on TV. A lot of doctors dont act like doctors on TV and a lot of slaves dont act anything like a slave out of a Gorean novel. It seems to me he needs to deflate and think in realistic terms. Also...if he ever finds this non autonomous slave that he describes, I would love to meet her so I can have proof that such a mythical figure exists.

agirl -> RE: Teaching your Dominant? (10/13/2007 6:19:25 AM)
If you both have such differing ideas of what a slave is, why not just abandon the word slave? You're both defeating yourselves by being hung up on your personal definitions of a word. What you're saying is that you want to be a slave to him, by YOUR own definition because you've loaded it with a kind of status, and he's saying that you're MORE than, BETTER than HIS definition of a slave. Is he content to own you and are you content to be his? That's what it boils down to. agirl

pagankinktress -> RE: Teaching your Dominant? (10/13/2007 6:37:08 AM)
As always, lots of great advice here. As agirl put it, perhaps changing the the semantics might help reframe things to some degree. My concern for the OP is this: if you know you are a strong, independent-minded woman at your core, how would being a slave to any dominant truly be a fit for you? I sense you and your dom do really care for one another, but it sounds like in order to give this man what he needs, you'd be giving up what it is you need to be. You can try to accomodate him, but it seems like it wouldn't be fair for either of you in the end. There are so many wonderful ways to engage in a D/s relationship, its a shame that sometimes certain ideals about roles can muddy up something that has a lot of potential. Knowing what we want is one thing, but sticking to rigid ideals or expectations can cause us to miss out on something really wonderful too. I do wish you the best and hope it all works out for you.

Celeste43 -> RE: Teaching your Dominant? (10/13/2007 8:13:46 AM)
Does the label matter that much to you? If he gives you the kind of direction and control, and the amount of it, that you need and you have a loving relationship with great communication, does it really make you go from happy to miserable if he calls you a sub instead of a slave? Over the years The Man has slowly taken more and more control. There are women who call themselves slaves who have less control taken by their owners than he has taken from me. Yet both he and I prefer d/s to m/s. As long as the actualities of the relationship are working for you, forget the word. Don't get hung up on semantics, do discuss what you need in daily life in terms of level of control. And if you really want to submit to him fully, allow him to choose the words instead of demanding he submits to your terminology. Oh and just because you're in an unhappy relationship but call yourself a true slave doesn't mean you are by definition better or in a deeper relationship than someone who calls themself a happy sub. You may not have meant that but that's how your comment reads.

RRafe -> RE: Teaching your Dominant? (10/13/2007 8:19:40 AM)
People seem to think all too often in purely negative ways-about things they have no grasp of. How is a person who is a pleasant companion, does things to make one happy-and frees up your personal time to do more productive and fun things......a mindless drone? Am I missing something here?

ImpGrrl -> RE: Teaching your Dominant? (10/13/2007 9:40:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kitttty Seriously though? It is the norm for female submissives to be successful put together people outside the bedroom? I am passive and completely dysfunctional without my Master. I was throwing my life away for no reason before him. What you say you are without your owner is dysfunctional, which has nothing to do with submission. D-types, s-types, and non-kink-types can all be dysfunctional. Being submissive isn't about being dysfunctional. I wouldn't ever take on an s-type who wasn't also already functional.

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