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US and Russia still at odds over missile defense - 10/12/2007 12:20:06 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
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Status: offline 		Relations between Russia and the west still remain chilly.

MOSCOW - High-level talks Friday between the United States and Russia failed to bridge major differences over U.S. plans for a missile defense system in Europe and a range of strategic arms issues.
 
After a series of tense meetings that began with a blunt rebuff from Russian President Vladimir Putin, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Robert Gates appeared to have been unable to turn around Moscow's opposition to missile defense.
 
Rice and Gates brought several new detailed proposals to the table meant to ease Russian concerns that the system would be aimed at Moscow, but the pair was unable to convince Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov or Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071012/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_russia
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RE: US and Russia still at odds over missile defense - 10/12/2007 12:26:02 PM   
philosophy


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Status: offline 		...seems US diplomacy has a credibility problem.

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RE: US and Russia still at odds over missile defense - 10/12/2007 12:48:36 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		you arent implying we take our ball and go home if we dont gets our ownn wayy.  [;-)]

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RE: US and Russia still at odds over missile defense - 10/12/2007 1:10:03 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Russie is in a better position right now. Their economy has bounced back, they have tapped into oil, they have refitted alot of infrastructure, they have surplus money and alot of buying leverage, they are moving forward with cutting edge military technology. They are in a similar position the US was, when we "won the Cold War". We bankrupted them, and now they are testing the waters on pushing another arms race. I wonder which of us is in a better position for an arm's race right now? Not to mention the dialogue with China that Russia is having.

<sarcasm> But we have bigger fish to fry in the Middle East.

Orion

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RE: US and Russia still at odds over missile defense - 10/12/2007 1:40:28 PM   
cyberdude611


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Status: offline 		Well...not really...

This is more of a trust issue.

There are people in the west that do not trust Putin. His approval ratings in Europe is abysmal and the European Union thinks he is rolling back the Gorbachev reforms. There is also a lot of tension concerning Ukrainian politics. There are people that think he lead to that assassination of the former KGB agent in London, and also the journalist in Moscow that was very critical of Putin's government. Putin however claims to have no part in those killings.
There is some truth to these fears, Putin and his political party has made some very questionable moves this past year that seems to monopolize the politcs.

So there is some added tensions here and the missle defense is just something that is coming at a bad time. Putin thinks the west is trying to make a move on their territory. And he has no reason to trust the west and if you want to know why....pick up a history book.

Both sides also still have a number of Cold Warriors. The people in both the US and Russian high levels of government were part of that cold war mentality. Putin was a KGB officer. Rice and Gates were educated and brought up to fear the Russians. So the trust and tension goes beyond today's issues. This tension will weaken as the youth in both countries begin to move up the ranks.

Is there going to be another Cold War? No. And even Gorbachev stated this in a recent interview. Russia is trying to modernize its economy. And they will not be able to isolate themselves like they did during the cold war. They will have to move out of their bloc and engage other countries and form relationships that they have in the past been fearful of. And they are slowly starting to do this.

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RE: US and Russia still at odds over missile defense - 10/12/2007 1:43:20 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Now I know why I listen to alot of music,

how much can one person take??

we are very ugly right now.
---------------------------------------------- barffffffffffffffffffffffffffff                                     ^vomits^

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RE: US and Russia still at odds over missile defense - 10/12/2007 3:31:52 PM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		At the risk of being accused of being an American arse kisser it was reported tonight on the jolly old BBC that the US had offered to allow the Rooskies to place observers on the new sites.

If that is true then question has to be asked ....what is Putin up to ?

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 10/12/2007 3:32:59 PM >

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RE: US and Russia still at odds over missile defense - 10/12/2007 4:00:22 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Ok, I have a question.
Why is the *U.S.* building missles in Central Europe instead of Europeans?

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RE: US and Russia still at odds over missile defense - 10/12/2007 4:07:37 PM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
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Status: offline 		Allegedly to keep a watch on Iran.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 10/12/2007 4:14:03 PM >

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RE: US and Russia still at odds over missile defense - 10/12/2007 4:11:44 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Ok, I have a question.
Why is the *U.S.* building missles in Central Europe instead of Europeans?


the encirclement of china :)


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RE: US and Russia still at odds over missile defense - 10/12/2007 4:18:47 PM   
cyberdude611


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Ok, I have a question.
Why is the *U.S.* building missles in Central Europe instead of Europeans?


Well they are not actual missiles. They are rockets that contain a "kill" vehicle meant to intercept an ICBM in space.

Im not an expert on physics or how this system works but apparently they say it is easier to shoot down an Iranian missile if the system is placed in eastern Europe. If the system was placed in western Europe, it would take longer to intercept and a greater chance of it missing. And if it was placed in the US or Canada, the kill vehicle would not reach the Iranian missile before hitting a target in Europe.

We also are putting a similar system in Alaska and parts of the Pacific that are intended to shield the US from any ICBMs fired from North Korea or China.
Russia doesn't seem to give a damn about what we do in the Pacific. But Putin is furious about putting interceptors in Poland. And I think the reason is simply because Putin does not trust western Europe. He doesnt get along with NATO and the European Union. He also doesn't believe Iran poses any threat to Europe or the US.

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RE: US and Russia still at odds over missile defense - 10/12/2007 4:51:12 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Ok, I have a question.
Why is the *U.S.* building missles in Central Europe instead of Europeans?


It is designed to protect the US from attacks by N Korea and Iran. I dont see how Europe will benefit. NATO and Russia are already in talks about a missile defence system, whats going on is posturing by Putin and Bush

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RE: US and Russia still at odds over missile defense - 10/12/2007 4:59:25 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		is it over?

did the final bomb drop yet?

can we go?

surely the final lie has been told. Is there more?


Hollywood releasing 3 films in November that- well- show how the US forces are misbehaving,

Will they ban it in Oklahoma?    I wonder.

With all the weight of the news news news, i mean pronouncement mechanisms; why would i PAY to see a movie like that???
on the other hand what took em so long?

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RE: US and Russia still at odds over missile defense - 10/13/2007 12:35:16 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		This is exactly the kind of thing we shouldn't be doing!
All they need to do is station one (1) nuclear submarine within striking distance of N.Korea and/or Iran.
Problem solved.
Europe should be doing that missle launcher thing, not the U.S.

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RE: US and Russia still at odds over missile defense - 10/13/2007 1:14:02 PM   
cyberdude611


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

This is exactly the kind of thing we shouldn't be doing!
All they need to do is station one (1) nuclear submarine within striking distance of N.Korea and/or Iran.
Problem solved.
Europe should be doing that missle launcher thing, not the U.S.


The thinking is that mutually assured destruction will not work against Islamic radicals who think they are assured 72 virgins in heaven if they kill enough infadels.

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RE: US and Russia still at odds over missile defense - 10/13/2007 1:42:33 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

This is exactly the kind of thing we shouldn't be doing!
All they need to do is station one (1) nuclear submarine within striking distance of N.Korea and/or Iran.
Problem solved.
Europe should be doing that missle launcher thing, not the U.S.


The thinking is that mutually assured destruction will not work against Islamic radicals who think they are assured 72 virgins in heaven if they kill enough infadels.


Oh? And what do we do if they do shoot a missile?
Wait for another one, or tell the "U.N.?"
That's what I'm afraid of, having someone in the White House who doesn't have an itchy trigger finger.
Do it the "Chicago Way", they shoot a missile we shoot 100 missiles.
Fuck'em!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 10/13/2007 2:36:52 PM >

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RE: US and Russia still at odds over missile defense - 10/13/2007 1:53:54 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

This is exactly the kind of thing we shouldn't be doing!
All they need to do is station one (1) nuclear submarine within striking distance of N.Korea and/or Iran.
Problem solved.
Europe should be doing that missle launcher thing, not the U.S.


The thinking is that mutually assured destruction will not work against Islamic radicals who think they are assured 72 virgins in heaven if they kill enough infadels.


Oh? And what do we do if they do shoot a missile?
Wait for another one, or tell the "U.N.?"


No, we shoot it down and then blow the crap out of them.

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