Ex-general: Iraq a "nightmare" for US (Full Version)

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Level -> Ex-general: Iraq a "nightmare" for US (10/12/2007 7:47:03 PM)

Ex-general: Iraq a 'nightmare' for US
By STEVEN KOMAROW, Associated Press Writer 25 minutes ago



The U.S. mission in Iraq is a "nightmare with no end in sight" because of political misjudgments after the fall of Saddam Hussein that continue today, a former chief of U.S.-led forces said Friday.

Retired Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, who commanded coalition troops for a year beginning June 2003, cast a wide net of blame for both political and military shortcomings in Iraq that helped open the way for the insurgency — such as disbanding the Saddam-era military and failing to cement ties with tribal leaders and quickly establish civilian government after Saddam was toppled.

He called current strategies — including the deployment of 30,000 additional forces earlier this year — a "desperate attempt" to make up for years of misguided policies in Iraq.

"There is no question that America is living a nightmare with no end in sight," Sanchez told a group of journalists covering military affairs.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071013/ap_on_re_mi_ea/sanchez_iraq;_ylt=AreCkp7_WDxX2x0k9le7ZjL2_sEF



UtopianRanger -> RE: Ex-general: Iraq a "nightmare" for US (10/13/2007 1:11:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Ex-general: Iraq a 'nightmare' for US
By STEVEN KOMAROW, Associated Press Writer 25 minutes ago



The U.S. mission in Iraq is a "nightmare with no end in sight" because of political misjudgments after the fall of Saddam Hussein that continue today, a former chief of U.S.-led forces said Friday.

Retired Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, who commanded coalition troops for a year beginning June 2003, cast a wide net of blame for both political and military shortcomings in Iraq that helped open the way for the insurgency — such as disbanding the Saddam-era military and failing to cement ties with tribal leaders and quickly establish civilian government after Saddam was toppled.

He called current strategies — including the deployment of 30,000 additional forces earlier this year — a "desperate attempt" to make up for years of misguided policies in Iraq.

"There is no question that America is living a nightmare with no end in sight," Sanchez told a group of journalists covering military affairs.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071013/ap_on_re_mi_ea/sanchez_iraq;_ylt=AreCkp7_WDxX2x0k9le7ZjL2_sEF


  Here's another from the Army times :

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/10/army_sanchez_071012w/


So much for political expediency.... I love when the neocons get kicked in the balls by one of their former subordinates.

Like Bernie Sanders said in a speech a while back.....''bring back whistle-blower protection to the highest echelons of government - So the American people can hear the truth come out.''

General John Abizaid kicked them in the balls a few weeks ago when he basically explained to the world that it was a workable scenario with regard to ''mutually assured destruction'' should Iran ever fully develop a deployable nuclear weapon.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1189411429430&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

No attack on Iran!!



- R



pahunkboy -> RE: Ex-general: Iraq a "nightmare" for US (10/13/2007 3:55:05 AM)

just another day?

i heard the same from a few that were over there. ild take the word of a guy on the ground sooner then one in an office --



Level -> RE: Ex-general: Iraq a "nightmare" for US (10/13/2007 6:23:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger


Here's another from the Army times :

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/10/army_sanchez_071012w/


So much for political expediency.... I love when the neocons get kicked in the balls by one of their former subordinates.

Like Bernie Sanders said in a speech a while back.....''bring back whistle-blower protection to the highest echelons of government - So the American people can hear the truth come out.''

General John Abizaid kicked them in the balls a few weeks ago when he basically explained to the world that it was a workable scenario with regard to ''mutually assured destruction'' should Iran ever fully develop a deployable nuclear weapon.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1189411429430&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

No attack on Iran!!



- R


Let's hope there's no attack. And yeah, anyone speaking the truth should be protected by law. We deserve to know what's what.



Nosathro -> RE: Ex-general: Iraq a "nightmare" for US (10/13/2007 9:06:30 AM)

I read articles about this as well.  Something that gets me is Gen. Sanchez states he knew how bad off things in Iraq were the day he took command but said nothing.  In his casting of blame, he states that those in leadership positions should voice their concerns, he didn't follow his own advise. 



Alumbrado -> RE: Ex-general: Iraq a "nightmare" for US (10/13/2007 9:47:40 AM)

I believe he was talking about our elected leaders.



philosophy -> RE: Ex-general: Iraq a "nightmare" for US (10/13/2007 10:58:05 AM)

..what i feel most sad about here, is that those of us who were against the idea of Iraq2 from the beginning predicted all of this mess from minute one. We were reviled by many as unpatriotic or naiive or even as traitors. Now that we have been proven correct by events, we are accused of demanding 20/20 hindsight.
The mess is Iraq didn't need any hindsight to be predicted.......it was obvious to anyone who treats the utterences of governments in a skeptical way, it was obvious to anyone who reads history, it was obvious......all too obvious........



pahunkboy -> RE: Ex-general: Iraq a "nightmare" for US (10/13/2007 11:17:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

..what i feel most sad about here, is that those of us who were against the idea of Iraq2 from the beginning predicted all of this mess from minute one. We were reviled by many as unpatriotic or naiive or even as traitors. Now that we have been proven correct by events, we are accused of demanding 20/20 hindsight.
The mess is Iraq didn't need any hindsight to be predicted.......it was obvious to anyone who treats the utterences of governments in a skeptical way, it was obvious to anyone who reads history, it was obvious......all too obvious........


in all candor- a close friend of mine who is up there in years- we reluckently supported it. then i asked her after 2006 congress- her reply

"They are ALL a bunch of CrOOKS".


my neighbir tells me the war is in jesuses hands and that in ww2- my view would have been one of a traitor.

THOU SHALL not covet the neighbors widget!!!
'
the azz!




Level -> RE: Ex-general: Iraq a "nightmare" for US (10/13/2007 11:29:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

..what i feel most sad about here, is that those of us who were against the idea of Iraq2 from the beginning predicted all of this mess from minute one. We were reviled by many as unpatriotic or naiive or even as traitors. Now that we have been proven correct by events, we are accused of demanding 20/20 hindsight.
The mess is Iraq didn't need any hindsight to be predicted.......it was obvious to anyone who treats the utterences of governments in a skeptical way, it was obvious to anyone who reads history, it was obvious......all too obvious........


I don't know about that, phil. I thought the odds of WMDs being found there were quite high, as did Clinton, Gore, and some of our allies around the world. The no-fly zone/embargo strategy didn't seem to be working, with numerous deaths resulting from it.
 
I do think that many people that claim it was "obvious" that there was no reason to go there are engaging in Monday morning quarterbacking (using hindsight, for you non-American football fans [:D]), or that they, quite frankly, have their head shoved so far up their ass, as to be blind to the possibility of anyone that is conservative, possesses anything of value to say. These "analists" automatically oppose anything a conservative may say, they immediately claim they're wrong, so, on the occasions that the conservatives are wrong, the analists are right, by default, if nothing else.
 
And no, you would not be one that I'm referring to, my friend.



philosophy -> RE: Ex-general: Iraq a "nightmare" for US (10/13/2007 12:22:53 PM)

....i think what many of us objected to was two-fold. Firstly not exhausting all the options before going to war......Hans Blix was effectively prevented from completing his proces by both Saddam and Bush. If Bush had not cut him off then Iraq2 may have been supported by Iraq's neighbours and many other countries once those options had been exhausted. Secondly it was blatantly obvious that there was no exit strategy.......no sense of what to do after the initial phase of combat.
Now don't get me wrong....i am not a pacifist at all costs sort of person, but war has to be the very last resort for civilised countries. There was a rush to combat, led by the US, that has resulted in a predictable and highly dangerous credibility gap for US diplomacy... and by extension western diplomacy. We lost touch with the moral high ground and in many arenas around the world that is our only justification for action.



Bufotenin -> RE: Ex-general: Iraq a "nightmare" for US (10/13/2007 2:07:33 PM)

I thought it was quite possible that they still were in possession of chemical and biological weapons (I mean they did have them at one point; the U.S. provided them). While I put no faith into the bulk of the administration, I was also naive enough to believe that Powell of all people would be wise enough to thoroughly validate the reliability of the data he was presenting to the U.N.

I still didn't agree with the invasion, however. I'm not a 'peacenik', but I still saw no reason to believe the Baath party was an immediate threat to the United States or its allies. Drawing resources from the Afghanistan/Pakistan region with the job nowhere near finished in order to destroy and rebuild a government... a government which was a source of regional stability and a buffer against Iran, regardless of whether it whether it was a dictatorship... just smacked of complete shortsightedness and stupidity. If the administration were genuine about winning "The War on Terror" they should have let the military finish its objectives instead of approaching international politics like a game of Jenga.

Even into the war they had years to admit things weren't going well and make corrections. Instead they simply insisted anything other than completely positive news reports were the product of a left-wing media and accused anyone who questioned our leadership of granting comfort to the enemy. And this went on for how fucking long? If not for last year's election Rumsfeld would still be Secretary of Defense and things would still be business as usual, seeing as he was opposed to a troop surge (and responsible for having too few troops on the ground in the first place). If this were Japan the nation would be calling for these idiots to do the honorable thing and commit seppuku for their failings.



popeye1250 -> RE: Ex-general: Iraq a "nightmare" for US (10/13/2007 2:52:37 PM)

What is obvious is that Iraq is a quagmire.
It's never good to try to be an "Occupying Force."
That's just not a tenable position. They still haven't learned their lessons from Vietnam!
And, I don't want my tax dollars spent "re-building" Iraq not from "bomb damage" but from 30 years of neglect by Saddam.
That's what's happening now.
Meanwhile our bridges collapse.
This is what happens when *our* govt. doesn't work for The People.
And this is what happens when you have "Lobbyists" in Washington.



farglebargle -> RE: Ex-general: Iraq a "nightmare" for US (10/13/2007 3:45:36 PM)

quote:

I thought it was quite possible that they still were in possession of chemical and biological weapons (I mean they did have them at one point; the U.S. provided them). While I put no faith into the bulk of the administration, I was also naive enough to believe that Powell of all people would be wise enough to thoroughly validate the reliability of the data he was presenting to the U.N.


Nope. Actually, Powell was a participant in the criminal conspiracy to defraud the United States into authorizing military force in Iraq.




cloudboy -> RE: Ex-general: Iraq a "nightmare" for US (10/13/2007 3:46:17 PM)

What was really funny (but pathetic) was Lynn Cheney (the VP's wife) on John Stewart citing the US revolution and its post war era as a comparitive example to what's going on in IRAQ. Stewart really didn't know how to handle her.



Level -> RE: Ex-general: Iraq a "nightmare" for US (10/13/2007 3:47:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


What was really funny (but pathetic) was Lynn Cheney on John Stewart citing the US revolution and its post war era as a comparitive example to what's going on in IRAQ. It was really entertaining, tho, to see Stewart interviewing Cheney's wife.


I can only imagine the look on his face.



philosophy -> RE: Ex-general: Iraq a "nightmare" for US (10/13/2007 3:49:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


What was really funny (but pathetic) was Lynn Cheney on John Stewart citing the US revolution and its post war era as a comparitive example to what's going on in IRAQ. It was really entertaining, tho, to see Stewart interviewing Cheney's wife.


I can only imagine the look on his face.


...i saw that episode.......what got me was when she basically suggested that the war on terror was a success and that the bombings in Madrid and London were irrelevant. So much for supporting US allies.



Level -> RE: Ex-general: Iraq a "nightmare" for US (10/13/2007 3:52:57 PM)

She's probably just miffed that both nations dipomatically refused her husband's offer to go over there and personally assist in the training of their anti-terror sharpshooter squads, but if they ever decided to hunt lawyers, they'd give him a call.



philosophy -> RE: Ex-general: Iraq a "nightmare" for US (10/13/2007 3:55:58 PM)

...you'd think that Spain and the UK would be giving advice the other way round, having a lot more experience with anti-terrorism than the US what with the Basques and the IRA.........



Level -> RE: Ex-general: Iraq a "nightmare" for US (10/13/2007 3:57:17 PM)

Yes, sadly, they do have a lot of hands-on experience. The Spaniards are cracking down now, in fact.



philosophy -> RE: Ex-general: Iraq a "nightmare" for US (10/13/2007 3:59:00 PM)

.....i suppose for a certain type of mindset, taking advice is a sign of weakness.
*sighs*



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