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Hitler Didn't Want World War - 10/13/2007 10:36:25 AM   
Real0ne


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Its all about MONEY always has been and always will be!  Thoughts?



Hitler didn't want a world war, and had no stomach for fighting England, according to Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Louis Kilzer, author of Churchill's Deception (Simon & Schuster, 1994).


Hitler believed the future of Western civilization depended on the cooperation of Germany and her Aryan cousins: England and the United States. His territorial demands were limited to Communist Russia, which he regarded as a proxy for Jewish world ambitions. He was determined to avoid fighting a war on two fronts.


http://www.savethemales.ca/000369.html






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RE: Hitler Didn't Want World War - 10/13/2007 10:39:07 AM   
Level


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Okay........ I stopped reading at this point:

quote:

Furthermore, Hitler was created, manipulated and destroyed by the same Illuminist clique that runs the world today.


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RE: Hitler Didn't Want World War - 10/13/2007 11:02:02 AM   
Real0ne


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You are joking right?  

So you then you summarily reject and ignore any part of history that does not suit your take on it?

Is the bavarian government uncovering their plan to take over complete governments and in august of 1786 outlawing their activites and attempting to disband the group enough?

Its a matter of bavarian historical record for petes sake!!

Other secret documents of the order were seized by the police in a search of the quarters of Baron Bassus, whose membership in the order on account of his close friendship with Zwack, brought him under the government’s suspicion. The police visitation referred to yielded no very important result, apart from establishing more solidly the government’s claim that the order had not obeyed the first edict. The papers seized in this instance were published by the government under the title, Nachtrag von weiterein Originalschriften ... Zwei Abtheilungen, Munich, 1787. ^




Following the suppression of the Jesuits in 1773, members of that order in considerable numbers, attracted by the rapid growth and the pretentious occultism of the Rosicrucians,150. had united with the latter system.151. The result was the infusion of a definite strain of clericalism into the order of the Rosicrucians and, in consequence, a renewal of the attack upon the Illuminati. In Prussia, where the Rosicrucians had firmly established themselves in Berlin, King Frederick William II was under the influence of Wöllner, one of his ministers and a leading figure in the Rosicrucian system.152.


129 These documents were published by the Bavarian government, under the title: Einige Originalschriften des Illuminaten Ordens, Munich, 1787. Engel, pp. 259-262, publishes the list compiled by the government. ^


130 Among these papers were found two smaller packets which gave a foundation for the most inveterate hostility to the order. These contained intimations of the order’s right to exercise the law of life and death over its members, a brief dissertation entitled, Gedanken über den Selbstmord, wherein Zwack, its author, had recorded his defence of suicide (cf. Engel, p. 262), a eulogy of atheism, a proposal to establish a branch of the order for women, the description of an infernal machine for safeguarding secret papers, and receipts for procuring abortion, counterfeiting seals, making poisonous perfumes, secret ink, etc. (Cf. Forestier, pp. 499 et seq.) The receipts for procuring abortion were destined to have a very ugly personal association in the public mind. Weishaupt, while still a resident of Ingolstadt, had stained his private life because of a liaison with his sister-in-law. On the 8 of February, 1780, his first wife had died. Her sister, who was his house-keeper at the time, continued in the household, and during the time that Weishaupt was waiting for a papal dispensation, permitting his marriage with her, she was found to be with child. Thrown into a panic on account of the failure of the dispensation to arrive (as a matter of fact it did not reach Ingolstadt until three years after it was first applied for), Weishaupt contemplated recourse to the method of procuring an abortion, in order to extricate himself from his painfully embarrassed position. In August, 1783, he wrote Hertel, one of the prominent members of the order, admitting the facts just stated. This letter fell into the hands of the authorities and was published by them in the volume entitled, Nacktrag von weiteren Originalschriften, Munich, 1787, vol. i, p. 14. The stigma of a new disgrace was thus attached to the order. Weishaupt made a pitifully weak effort to suggest extenuating circumstances for his conduct, in his volume Kurze Rechtfertigung meiner Absichten, 1787, pp. 1,3 et seq. Taken in connection with the objectionable papers referred to above, this private scandal of the head of the order made the accusation of gross immorality on the part of the Illuminati difficult to evade. A spirit of intense revulsion penetrated the public mind. ^

131 Other secret documents of the order were seized by the police in a search of the quarters of Baron Bassus, whose membership in the order on account of his close friendship with Zwack, brought him under the government’s suspicion. The police visitation referred to yielded no very important result, apart from establishing more solidly the government’s claim that the order had not obeyed the first edict. The papers seized in this instance were published by the government under the title, Nachtrag von weiterein Originalschriften ... Zwei Abtheilungen, Munich, 1787. ^

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/stauffer.html




Main Text:  Illuminati Conspiracy Part One: Exegesis on the Available Evidence
End Notes
1.      Not quite. There are three errors in that paragraph: 1) Weishaupt was indeed taught by the Jesuits, though he himself wasn't one of them. Many prominent thinkers - such as Voltaire, Descartes, and Diderot - were trained by Jesuits, but I've yet to see the same inaccuracy applied to them. By the time Weishaupt was born the "Society of Jesus" had control of the educational establishment, and had founded some of the most prestigious Colleges and Universities in all of Europe. 2) I may be nitpicking with this one but it is worth correcting the mistake: the Illuminati were not formed within Masonic lodges. The lodges were infiltrated later; Weishaupt's Order was already in existence, beginning at the University of Ingolstadt. 3) The final blow to the Illuminati occurred, not in 1785, but on August 16, 1787 when the Duke of Bavaria issued his third and final edict outlawing the system on pain of death. ˆ


Nesta Webster received criticism after her publication of World Revolution, in 1921, for relying wholly upon the testimony of John Robison (Proofs of a Conspiracy) and the Abbé Augustin Barruel (Memoirs Illustrating the History of Jacobinism) in formulating her opinions about the Illuminati. In Secret Societies & Subversive Movements - pp. 191 to 232 - she quotes judiciously from the original documents and correspondences of the Illuminati, subsequently published by order of the Elector after being seized by the Bavarian police; specifically: Einige Originalschriften des Illuminaten Ordens, Munich, 1787; Nachtrag von weiteren Originalschriften, Munich, 1787; Der neuesten Arbeiten des Sparticus und Philo, Munich, 1793.



As far as the literature I've read recently, Abbé Barruel's Memoirs Illustrating the History of Jacobinism is indispensable for anyone investigating the Illuminati: in Part III and Part IV of his magnum opus hundreds of pages are devoted to the Order. Barruel consulted the original documents published by the Bavarian Elector, just as Robison had, however Barruel's quotations are complete, meticulously sourced (book, page and number cited throughout), numerous, and faithfully translated. Author René Le Forestier - whose 1914 study, Les illuminés de Bavière et la Franc-Maçonnerie allemande  is considered the best by modern historians - praised the scope and reliability of Barruel's treatment of the original documents. (Memoirs …, Introduction by Stanley L. Jaki, p. xxiv) Billington's Fire in the Minds of Men was integral for a thorough understanding concerning the (conspiratorial) history of the "revolutionary faith" from the 18th to the 20th century. The book has become one of my most valued references; it is masterly done, the breadth and scope of Billington's investigation is admirable. Webster's Secret Societies & Subversive Movements is just as vital, no matter what the critics say. As far as I know she is the only English author since Robison, some two-hundred years ago, to consult and reproduce large excerpts from the original documents published by the Bavarian Government - rare copies of which are only held in a few select places throughout the world: Ingolstadt University and The British Library are two that I know of.

I very much disagree with the word secret because I think there a huge difference between a secret and "not commonly known"

Illuminati Conspiracy Part One: A Precise Exegesis on the Available Evidence
http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/Illuminati.htm

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 10/13/2007 11:50:11 AM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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RE: Hitler Didn't Want World War - 10/13/2007 11:21:08 AM   
Pulpsmack


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It is true that Hitler did not have ambitions against England, viewing the Islanders of like Aryan blood, and he was dismayed to find that England as one of his enemies in the end.

It is also true that the principal thrust to the Nazi platform was "Lebensraum" where the inferior jews, gypsies, and russian peoples were occupying good agricultural land (i.e. the Ukraine) for the master race to cultivate, and they were to be dispatched (displaced/expelled/destroyed).

It was also a German fear of fighting the war on two fronts, which wore the Kaiser's army down in the last war (which is the reason why he signed the anti aggession pact with Stalin, allowing the Blitzkrieg to neutralize the western front).

Finally, one could argue that it was all about money since the war-guilt clause and the indemnity exacted upon the Germans put them in an impossible position and such poverty and civil unrest fostered conditions favorable enough for someone like Hitler to be legitimized (and even then he was arrested in the 1923 Beer hall Putsch and carried some 30% of the vote at the Nazi's most popular point in "pre-Reichstag seizure" history)  

But taking these kernals of truth and squeezing them in the fist won't will them into a solid, cohesive, unified argument that is put forth. The illumanati nonesense is one pill I have trouble swallowing, and it's harder still in the WWI-WWII era. Even recognizing these truths, you have mapped out Hitler's ambitions of the day. And if he did unify the Aryans, isolated the US and somehow survived total war with the Russians (much less defeated them), what assurances would the world have that he would have stopped there? His entire "strategy" hinged on risky and controversial annexations/attacks that caused extreme tension with his neutral neighbors. As history showed... Hitler's plans today were only harmful to W and innocuous to X without even mentioning Y. The next day they were harmful to X but innocuous to Y without even mentioning Z. The only predictable factor with Hitler was ambition and his diplomatic credibility was shot. 


< Message edited by Pulpsmack -- 10/13/2007 11:25:56 AM >

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RE: Hitler Didn't Want World War - 10/13/2007 11:24:11 AM   
Estring


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Oh great. Another Hitler apologist.

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RE: Hitler Didn't Want World War - 10/13/2007 11:39:01 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

Oh great. Another Hitler apologist.


I didnt see it as being an apologist as much as much as an explanation of lessor known history.   I dont think he is apologizing for hitler.

It is well known that Americas wall street was also involved in financing of hitler.  It takes money to fight wars and most wars are over money on some level.  When I see the term illuminati the first impression I think that comes to peoples minds is boris and natasha on the moon with a big telescope looking at earth with some diabolical plan to control the world.  I think the reality of that is coming in view with the desired creation of the NAU, via the SSP and other treaties.  It is now or should be obvious that is the direction we are heading only instead of nuking each other through financial instruments, hence the super ludicrious wealthy elite by any other name are shaping this world with one thing in mind and one thing only.

MONEY

It seems very reasonable to think they funded hitler especially when you look at the surrounding events of the time, but Hitler didnt play ball by their rules so well... imo  (best is to read the articles because frankly i do not do it justice





< Message edited by Real0ne -- 10/13/2007 11:46:04 AM >


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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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RE: Hitler Didn't Want World War - 10/13/2007 11:54:50 AM   
JackM1


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oh, he wanted a war alright....but not quite how it turned out. i dont think he really thought anyone would actually fight against him, since, while testing the waters, everyone sorta just rolled over the gave him what he wanted(apeasement to NOT cause another huge war just when the first world war had finally wound down...i believe anyone would have done the same) hitler was an egotistical megalomaniac, who thought that his ideas were better than everyone and that his power was unbeatable because his people were the master race(psh...love germans, but please...if ever there was a 'master race', it wouldnt be human...). he was a smart man though, and im sure he knew there would be conflict from the people he was taking over and messing with; in fact, why do you think he was so against the jews? sure, there was some personal hatred involved there, mixed with trumped up 'science' and regional racism, but in general it served to unite the german people against another group. it made him the crusader to save everyone, and no matter how absurd his ideas sound to us now, back then he really had everyone believing that horse shit. i could go on and on about the little reasons for this and that, but i'll only mention a few: germany had always had a totalitarian leader, they had always had a king, and so when democracy was tried, it failed miserably because the people didnt know how to go along with it; they felt lost without someone to guide them and give them a cause, as was the long standing tradition. when hitler started to preach, many people thought he was a psycho and that he wouldnt get very far, so they left him be let time deal with what they thought was a lost cause. unfortunately, they breached the cardinal rule; "never underestimate the stupidity of people in large numbers". there were those desperate enough for SOME sort of stability in their lives(inflation was a bitch, noone had work, you couldnt buy food with the hundreds of bills you had, your once glorious country was nocked down so low that 3/4 of the population probably considered suicide on an hourly basis, some more frequently) that they joined what ever strong party began to emerge from the dust and rubble. that man just happened to be hitler. just imagine what could have happened if hitler had been spouting world peace and unity instead of "kill the jews!".

at first, i should mention, hitler didnt say ANYTHING about hating the jews, in fact, he had quite a number of german-jew followers who truly believed that he would be able to bring their country out of the dredges that it was in. it was only when he solidified his power by making sure that he couldnt be thrown out of power by any legal means(and he was elected btw.....everything he did to make sure he was all powerful was, technically, legal...down to eradicating the only political body that could have overthrown him, for which he had justifications comming out of his ass) that he started talking about how the jews were the reason that their country was in the state it was in. to some degree, the hatred of the jews was a political ploy to get everyone to go along with hitler, to be united towards a common goal(getting rid of jews, freeing their aryan brothers and sisters from the clutches of other countries, where they were being held against their will!...*rolls eyes*). after time went by, im sure it evolved in most people into true hatred, but most at the begining couldnt understand why their nice neighbors, who had faught in WW1 with and for them, were being taken away.

as a jew i think i can say this without being blasted; hitler was a political genius...everything he did was so carefully timed and crafted, the people so carefully chosen and his speaches perfectly mastered to get an entire country under his control. crazy fuck though he might have been, if he hadnt started spewing hatred against the jews, he would have undoubtedly been reguarded as the worlds most famous leader(he did, after all, get a country that was the lowest of the low, back on top in only a few short years......for comparison, it took him less time to get out of his countries depression than it did for us, and his was much much worse when he took control)

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RE: Hitler Didn't Want World War - 10/13/2007 1:13:09 PM   
Bufotenin


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http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/stauffer.html

"Vernon L. Stauffer’s New England and the Bavarian Illuminati on occasion has been referred to or quoted out of context by those aiming to promote the plot theory of history. Stauffer’s researchs support no such conclusion."
 
Stauffer's work is a historical piece on the religious and political background behind the 'Illuminati scare' of the early 20th century. It isn't a pro-Illuminati/conspiracy theory work and draws a clear difference between the short-lived and powerless secret society the Bavarian Illuminati and the all-powerful NWO-plotting Illuminati that every person in the world with the slightest amount of money or power is supposedly involved in.
 
The other articles you link are peppered with facts ripped from their historical context, completely distorted, and used to further paranoid conspiracy theories.
 
And for those interested, Henry Makow (who wrote the "essay" Hitler Didn't Want World War) is also the author of such fine works as:
 
-Illuminati Defector reveals Satanic Conspiracy
-Michael Moore Shills for Illuminati Bankers
-Illuminati Sex Slaves Paint Horrifying Picture
-Protocols of Zion is the NWO Blueprint
-Elders of Zion Shape Our Culture

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RE: Hitler Didn't Want World War - 10/13/2007 1:51:50 PM   
Real0ne


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So I guess the bavarian government was insane?

THey had to write 3 edits, that is 3 times they disband them before they went underground?

So you are trying to downplay that this is well documented and historoical record.

I cant say that I agree with every last detail this guy comes up with however neither am I willing to throw out documented history.

So you think they just disbanded and went away?

Did the kkk disband and go away?  How about the nazi party? Gone?  I think not.

And for those who are intereseted Henry quotes from the original documents, and other renowned writers on the subject with pulitzer awards stacked upon their names.

You didnt even bother to quote or cite what was quoted out of context.  

Of course indiscriminate readers I am sure picked that up.  

So fuck history and all the credible writers, researchers and historians that contributes to this work? 

Welcome to free speech in america, kill the messaenger because you do not like the message!

To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle.
-- George Orwell




< Message edited by Real0ne -- 10/13/2007 2:19:28 PM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Bufotenin)
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RE: Hitler Didn't Want World War - 10/13/2007 2:28:20 PM   
Bufotenin


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No, I'm totally sure the Bavarian Illuminati got back together, combined resources with the Freemasons, and now they're controlling the world behind the stage and yadda yadda yadda. I can't believe you're putting forth the fact that the KKK is still around as an argument. There's irony in the fact that they're probably the biggest subscribers to the whole 'Illuminati is controlling the world' conspiracy. You know, while they sit around their trailers smoking meth they bought from their skinhead neo-nazi biker pals.

Nothing about the non-Stauffer works you referred to is placed in historical context. Discriminate readers will have picked-up on that. It's all vague statements connected by inadequately supported conclusions, which is why you'll only find it on conspiracy-nut webpages and booklets.

For example:
Coincidentally this was the worst night of the Blitz. Afterward, there was a long lull in both Nazi and British bombing raids. It appears the Nazis thought they had an understanding with the British and turned their attention to the invasion of Russia the following month (June 22, 1941.)



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RE: Hitler Didn't Want World War - 10/13/2007 3:02:40 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bufotenin

No, I'm totally sure the Bavarian Illuminati got back together, combined resources with the Freemasons, and now they're controlling the world behind the stage and yadda yadda yadda. I can't believe you're putting forth the fact that the KKK is still around as an argument. There's irony in the fact that they're probably the biggest subscribers to the whole 'Illuminati is controlling the world' conspiracy. You know, while they sit around their trailers smoking meth they bought from their skinhead neo-nazi biker pals.

Nothing about the non-Stauffer works you referred to is placed in historical context. Discriminate readers will have picked-up on that. It's all vague statements connected by inadequately supported conclusions, which is why you'll only find it on conspiracy-nut webpages and booklets.

For example:
Coincidentally this was the worst night of the Blitz. Afterward, there was a long lull in both Nazi and British bombing raids. It appears the Nazis thought they had an understanding with the British and turned their attention to the invasion of Russia the following month (June 22, 1941.)






Its does not change the fact that the bavarian gov issued an edict on 3 separate occasions in attempts to disban the group and the orignal writings confiscated by the same government detail taking over governments through subversion.

The last time I checked subversion is not considered a "combined effort" as you want to spin it.  (as if the masons said hey welcome to our house lets smoke some dope.

The papers seized in this instance were published by the government under the title, Nachtrag von weiterein Originalschriften ... Zwei Abtheilungen, Munich, 1787. ^

These documents were published by the Bavarian government, under the title: Einige Originalschriften des Illuminaten Ordens, Munich, 1787. Engel, pp. 259-262, publishes the list compiled by the government.

finally Der neuesten Arbeiten des Sparticus und Philo, Munich, 1793.


The Bavarian government seen them as threat but apparently you with no citations that directly address those writings what so ever know better.  Even kennedy spoke out against secret societies, was he a kook too? yadda yadda?

Like it or not the masons were and still to a good degree are a secret society.

Jekyl Island?  no secrets there huh?

I suppose you think bohemian grove is another fantasy too LOL  

I suppose you think the Bavarian Duke issued the edicts based on the writings "taken out of context"  huh"  LOL

Your ridicule is not going to change reality.

But never mind history, just kill the messenger.





< Message edited by Real0ne -- 10/13/2007 3:34:02 PM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Bufotenin)
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